72 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

Radahldo wrote...
If i were to use the drone, I would pop-out of a cover and risk being gunned down.

You don't have to break cover to summon a drone. Just turn to the side and bring it up beside you. You won't be able to make it appear right by the enemy, but it will advance and draw fire.

[coinop25]

Not sure why Engineer was the only class shorted on extra protection in ME1, but I assumed it was a balancing issue in ME2. After all, Engineer is the absolute most versatile class otherwise:

Overload for shield and synthetic damage
Incinerate for armor and organic damage
A class power that boosts power damage
Plus Drone, Cryo Blast, AI Hacking for enemy disables/limited crowd control

They have multiple powers that would still be very good with only a single point in them (Drone, Cryo, Hacking), leaving open more points to max out a bonus power if you so choose. Even on your first playthrough, you can get Barrier pretty early, and Geth Shield Boost later, which ends up being one of the fastest-recharging damage mitigation powers in the game if you've been investing in tech cooldown bonuses.

I can see why Engineer was the least played class – it certainly SOUNDS less interesting, and its special power is even shared by two squadmates – but personally, I found my Engineer with GSB to be one of my most lethally efficient characters, capable of handling basically any mission and only needing to worry about having at least one squadmate with Warp in case I run into barriers.

EDIT to add: But yeah, I assumed the ME2 Engineer's damage dealing powers were to compensate for how underpowered they were in ME1. To make them useful on higher difficulties, you kind of had to wear armor high in shields and put a lot of points into Shield Boost. I don't miss that.

And all of that said, after you get some upgrades, Unity is a pretty good health+shield recharge power itself in ME2.

Modifié par coinop25, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[baller7345]

coinop25 wrote...

Not sure why Engineer was the only class shorted on extra protection in ME1, but I assumed it was a balancing issue in ME2. After all, Engineer is the absolute most versatile class otherwise:

Overload for shield and synthetic damage
Incinerate for armor and organic damage
A class power that boosts power damage
Plus Drone, Cryo Blast, AI Hacking for enemy disables/limited crowd control

They have multiple powers that would still be very good with only a single point in them (Drone, Cryo, Hacking), leaving open more points to max out a bonus power if you so choose. Even on your first playthrough, you can get Barrier pretty early, and Geth Shield Boost later, which ends up being one of the fastest-recharging damage mitigation powers in the game if you've been investing in tech cooldown bonuses.

I can see why Engineer was the least played class – it certainly SOUNDS less interesting, and its special power is even shared by two squadmates – but personally, I found my Engineer with GSB to be one of my most lethally efficient characters, capable of handling basically any mission and only needing to worry about having at least one squadmate with Warp in case I run into barriers.

EDIT to add: But yeah, I assumed the ME2 Engineer's damage dealing powers were to compensate for how underpowered they were in ME1. To make them useful on higher difficulties, you kind of had to wear armor high in shields and put a lot of points into Shield Boost. I don't miss that.

And all of that said, after you get some upgrades, Unity is a pretty good health+shield recharge power itself in ME2.

ME1 engineer did have something to give them extra protection even if it was a bit on the weak side compared to others.  I think it was electronics.  It gave you more shields for every point in it.  You could get some really high shield totals with the engineer and being able to shut down everybodies weapons and abilites in a 10 ft radius made them just as unfair as every other class.  No class in ME1 was underpowered some were just more overpowered.

[rumination888]

baller7345 wrote...

No class in ME1 was underpowered some were just more overpowered.

2 is more than 1, but 1 is not less than 2.

[baller7345]

rumination888 wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

No class in ME1 was underpowered some were just more overpowered.

2 is more than 1, but 1 is not less than 2.

??? Ok if i get this completely wrong then tell me.  I'll admit the engineer isn't as strong as the other classes but that doesn't mean its underpowered in gameplay terms.  Its a single player game so being the weakest class doesn't mean you are underpowered because everything is easy no matter the class you are in the first place.  All classes could be nerfed in ME1 before one would be weak enough to be underpowered in relation to the game.

Modifié par baller7345, 13 septembre 2010 - 08:32 .

[termokanden]

Malanek999 wrote...

Radahldo wrote...
If i were to use the drone, I would pop-out of a cover and risk being gunned down.

You don't have to break cover to summon a drone. Just turn to the side and bring it up beside you. You won't be able to make it appear right by the enemy, but it will advance and draw fire.

We already discussed this.

Just as a side note, am I the only person who doesn't use Dominate as my Engineer bonus power?

Nope. I used Tungsten Ammo the first time around. Next I'd probably use Flashbang.

[PsyrenY]

Even with your shields down, you can pop out of cover to use a power. You will get angry veins of pain on Insanity for your trouble, but the drone WILL deploy on the target, and you will be alive.



The only time this is a bad idea is when the shotgun merc/geth hunter is standing right outside your cover... but did you need me to tell you that?

[coinop25]

baller7345 wrote...

ME1 engineer did have something to give them extra protection even if it was a bit on the weak side compared to others.  I think it was electronics.  It gave you more shields for every point in it.  You could get some really high shield totals with the engineer and being able to shut down everybodies weapons and abilites in a 10 ft radius made them just as unfair as every other class.  No class in ME1 was underpowered some were just more overpowered.

Excellent point. Totally forgot that powers had passive effects in ME1. This is what made Shield Boost such a useful power on them, and what made armors with high shielding arguably superior for them than armors with high DR, like Colossus.

[Radahldo]

You could still be one-shotted by 'Assassination' using snipers even with maxed out electronics. In atleast one level--The one with Nassanas sister-- this had potential to be very irritating because of the positioning of the various snipers somewhat inhibited the effectiveness of sabotage.

The engineers basic armor stat  maxed out I don't recall being enough to prevent being onesotted by them... wearing colossus or titan armor obviously changes that to a degree.

Barrier and immunity would absorb a nice deal of the sniper shot.

Modifié par Radahldo, 13 septembre 2010 - 02:32 .

[baller7345]

Radahldo wrote...

You could still be one-shotted by 'Assassination' using snipers even with maxed out electronics. In atleast one level--The one with Nassanas sister-- this had potential to be very irritating because of the positioning of the various snipers somewhat inhibited the effectiveness of sabotage.

The engineers basic armor stat  maxed out I don't recall being enough to prevent being onesotted by them... wearing colossus or titan armor obviously changes that to a degree.

Barrier and immunity would absorb a nice deal of the sniper shot.

The only thing that one shotted my engineers was rocket drones.  Well Geth Colossus, threser maws and other stuff that should be fought in the mako did to but that was my own doing.  Its definitely true that you are more likely to get one shotted by assanation if you don't have enough sheilds as an engineer but that just shows the stupid power that immunity had and to a lesser extent barrier.

[JaegerBane]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

I see... you're wondering why the engineer doesn't have a "bailout"  button like soldiers, infltrators, vanguards, and sentinels. The adept, which are the biotic cousin of the engineer, don't have it either, and I think it's designed to be this way. The 3 power trees are combat, tech, and biotic, and the classes are broken up like this:

The Purists:
Soldier (combat)
Adept (biotic)
Engineer (tech)

The Hybrids:
Infiltrator (combat + tech)
Vanguard (combat + biotic)
Sentinel (biotic + tech)

So by design, the soldier certainly needs to be the most surviable, and It makes sense to me that the hybrids have advantages and disadvantages of being a jack-of-all-trades. Infiltrators can cloak but can't regen. Vanguards can restore shields but it's high-risk. Sentinels are  defense-oriented and have the lowest offensive boost. Pure techs and  biotics are casters, which in rpg games, are generally offensive-oriented. That's the premise anways, I think, to make classes distinct. But in practice, real class balance is certainly up for debate. But style-wise, I feel engineers are the most chess-like classes; so if you casted incinerate instead of overload, you should pay for it, and you should not get a bailout card.

I think the issue here is style and gameplay are being muddled together when, in this game, they're two seperate things. Vanguards may be combat-biotic hybrids but in practice, they don't function anything like biotics. It's a similar case for the infiltrator. The 'hybrid' classes do, in fact, have very narrow and defined playstyles. Hence, I'm not sure how much relevance can be had from how the hybrids work with respect to Drone.

I'm also loathe to fall into RPG stereotypes here - the soldier isn't some tankish beefcake nor is the Adept a basic mage and hence, I would argue talking about other RPG casters clouds this issue.

To be honest, I'm not sure there is any good reason for buffed engineer abilities. Until the release of Stasis they did have a definite edge over their 'cousin' class in terms of panic buttons and general damage output, but they have'nt lost anything major since it's release. They can still reliably punch through a multiude of defences and lockdown all sorts of opponents - including fully defended ones - and have access to GSB if they so need it.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 13 septembre 2010 - 03:30 .

[JaegerBane]

baller7345 wrote...

??? Ok if i get this completely wrong then tell me.  I'll admit the engineer isn't as strong as the other classes but that doesn't mean its underpowered in gameplay terms.  Its a single player game so being the weakest class doesn't mean you are underpowered because everything is easy no matter the class you are in the first place.  All classes could be nerfed in ME1 before one would be weak enough to be underpowered in relation to the game.

Baller, you're needlessly complicating the issue. 'Overpowered/Underpowered' are virtually always relative terms, so to claim that 'there were no underpowered classes, just several overpowered classes' is effectively nonsense.

Think about it - if all classes were 'underpowered' then the game was just be an order of magnitude more difficult. The fact that some class's abilities didn't adequately deal with the challenges in the game in comparison to others is pretty much the definition of being underpowered.

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

To be honest, I'm not sure there is any good reason for buffed engineer abilities. Until the release of Stasis they did have a definite edge over their 'cousin' class in terms of panic buttons and general damage output, but they have'nt lost anything major since it's release. They can still reliably punch through a multiude of defences and lockdown all sorts of opponents - including fully defended ones - and have access to GSB if they so need it.

I argued that the drone itself doesn't need a buff. However, tech powers don't have warp explosions, and the tech version of pull/throw is just plain worse.

So I think tech powers need to be improved.

Furthermore, I still can't understand why sentinels have lower cooldowns than engineers and adepts. Both adepts and engineers should have their passives buffed to 30%.

[demersel]

lazuli wrote...

Radahldo wrote...
Assuming it returns in ME3, does anyone have ideas on how to improve the drone?

If the recently released ME2 statistics are to be believed, Engineer was the least-played class.  I don't know if Bioware wants to do anything to remedy that, but I think changing (or removing) the drone would be a good place to start.  Adepts summon miniature black holes.  Infiltrators disappear from sight.  Vanguards charge across the battlefield at blinding speeds.  Sentinels cover themselves with glittering armor.  Soldiers slow down time to pull off awesome kills.  And what do Engineers do?  They send out a fragile, glowing orb to do their bidding.  Lame.

I'm not saying Engineers are ineffective.  They're just not as dynamic as the other classes.

If the drone appears in ME3, perhaps recasting it when it's already out should detonate it explosively or trigger other effects.  Trends in summoned minion skills in recent games lean towards recycling your pet for damage, defense, or other purposes.  Having it explode when you recast it could replicate that delightful remote mine feel from other popular video games.

You are wrong here. ME2 statistic show that engineer is the least played class in ME2 cause it was the least played class in ME1. The drone is awesome enough

[Simbacca]

lazuli wrote...

...If the drone appears in ME3, perhaps recasting it when it's already out should detonate it explosively or trigger other effects.  Trends in summoned minion skills in recent games lean towards recycling your pet for damage, defense, or other purposes.  Having it explode when you recast it could replicate that delightful remote mine feel from other popular video games.

Awesome idea.  I disagree with the actually premise of this thread, as I found my Engineer to be quite powerful even with just tech skills (bonus power Neural Shock), and since all their skills control in one way or another [Overload overheats weapons and stuns synthetics, Incinerate panics organics, Cryo freeze the unprotected, AI Hack, Neural Shock, and the ultimate defense ignoring distraction, Drone] I see no need for a tank skill.  Still I would have LOVED it if I could have set off my Explosive Drone manually with recastings!

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...
I argued that the drone itself doesn't need a buff. However, tech powers don't have warp explosions, and the tech version of pull/throw is just plain worse.

So I think tech powers need to be improved.

I think that's your problem right there. There is no 'tech version' of pull and throw. That isn't the kind of gameplay the Engineer offers. While they're both casters, Adepts are generally closer to nukers and CCer's while Engineers are closer to summoners/support classes - it's why they have anti-defence heavyweights like Incinerate and Overload and can create minions, but fall down a bit on direct affects like Throw and Pull.

Engineers are supposed to support an attack by weakening and turning enemies while Adepts actually drop the nukes and the CC. They're two different caster playstyles - that in itself isn't really a reason for tech powers to be 'improved'.

Furthermore, I still can't understand why sentinels have lower cooldowns than engineers and adepts. Both adepts and engineers should have their passives buffed to 30%.

On paper, it does seem a bit silly when the jack of all trades actually beats the specialists in cooldowns in their respective fields, but like a lot else in ME2, it really needs to be considered in context. Sentinels derive a lot of their worth from their tech armour, which carries a punishing 12-sec cooldown. Without it they're basically a weak CCer/nuker that lacks any really potent abilities or combos. They *need* it up at all times and hence, they'd be unfairly hit with cooldown issues without that large reduction.

Even then, it's worth pointing out that Demolisher, Raider and Nemesis specialisations are all effectively the same. The Sentinel has to sacrifice a 15% damage boost to get that improved cooldown you mention, and on a class that has weak CC and two damage powers but no way of setting of explosions or directing attention away from them, that's not a straightforward choice.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 13 septembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

The "soldier classes" are more popular than the power heavy classes simply because weapons and ammo powers are more effective than active powers.



And yeah, it does not make sense that sentinels are superior casters when compared to engineers and adepts while also having superior protection and shooting abilities due to the tech armor.

[Tony Gunslinger]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think the issue here is style and gameplay are being muddled together when, in this game, they're two seperate things. Vanguards may be combat-biotic hybrids but in practice, they don't function anything like biotics. It's a similar case for the infiltrator. The 'hybrid' classes do, in fact, have very narrow and defined playstyles. Hence, I'm not sure how much relevance can be had from how the hybrids work with respect to Drone.

I'm also loathe to fall into RPG stereotypes here - the soldier isn't some tankish beefcake nor is the Adept a basic mage and hence, I would argue talking about other RPG casters clouds this issue.

To be honest, I'm not sure there is any good reason for buffed engineer abilities. Until the release of Stasis they did have a definite edge over their 'cousin' class in terms of panic buttons and general damage output, but they have'nt lost anything major since it's release. They can still reliably punch through a multiude of defences and lockdown all sorts of opponents - including fully defended ones - and have access to GSB if they so need it.

I think stereotypes do factor in, as well as the importance of looking at all the classes together to decide if any changes are appropriate, instead of singling out one class to fix it without looking at the big picture. We all initially chose these classes because of how we preceive them to play in the game; we didn't decide by reading an instruction manual to find out about tech vs. combat vs. biotic powers. The game mechanics and powers are defined by the stereotypes (better word is archetype) and its variants that we are familiar with, not the other way around.

We can tweak the game so all classes can be "equal", but not at the cost of losing their unique characteristics. If engineers are given damage mitigation, then adepts would be the only one left hanging. People would complain, which would mean that adepts should be given damage mitigation as well. And if every class has damage mitigation, then it is no longer something unique, it becomes the standard. And if damage mitigation is standard, then if you want a balanced system, enemies should also have damage mitigation. It becomes a complicated system (hello, ME1) where everything will be able to regen and reduce damage, it's a very inefficient extra step, and we'll never know what a character or enemy without damage mitigation would be like. Some classes MUST not have damage mitigation. I would argue that Cloak isn't because you can still get hit while in cloak (happens a lot), so 3 out of 6 classes don't have damage mitigation, which is fair.

Tech Armor is a wearable drone... or rather... Combat Drone is a remote-controlled Tech Armor. Instead of you going into hell, you send the remote-controlled Tech Armor instead and hang back. And I agree, I can see attack drones being a) stronger, do more damage and/or c) multiple drones, but damage mitigation -- when you look at the entire spectrum of classes -- is not in the Engineer's characteristics.

I'm all for improvements, we can talk about how attack drones can be better, how tech powers can have synergy, but assuming that the current game is balanced (uh, balanced enough), when we improve one part better, something else will have to give in.

[PsyrenY]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

And yeah, it does not make sense that sentinels are superior casters when compared to engineers and adepts while also having superior protection and shooting abilities due to the tech armor.

That depends on your definition of "caster." Sentinels are primarily blasters with minimal control ability.  They have more offensive casting potential (as they can take on every defense), but unlike Engineers and Adepts have no way to stop protected enemies from shooting at them; hence, they need tech armor to survive casting long enough while under fire to make a difference.

[Alamar2078]

I don't think the Engineer needs anything else. I recently completed LotSB with an Engr on insanity and had a wopping 2 deaths without firing a SINGLE shot through the whole thing -- and this was on my first ever playthough of the DLC.



Add to this that I don't have anything approaching elite skills and you have a class that doesn't need any more damage mitigation [OK 1 Pt of Tac. Cloak would be handy at times]

[JaegerBane]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

We can tweak the game so all classes can be "equal", but not at the cost of losing their unique characteristics. If engineers are given damage mitigation, then adepts would be the only one left hanging. People would complain, which would mean that adepts should be given damage mitigation as well. And if every class has damage mitigation, then it is no longer something unique, it becomes the standard. And if damage mitigation is standard, then if you want a balanced system, enemies should also have damage mitigation. It becomes a complicated system (hello, ME1) where everything will be able to regen and reduce damage, it's a very inefficient extra step, and we'll never know what a character or enemy without damage mitigation would be like. Some classes MUST not have damage mitigation. I would argue that Cloak isn't because you can still get hit while in cloak (happens a lot), so 3 out of 6 classes don't have damage mitigation, which is fair.

While I can appreciate the risk of escalation and power creep, I don't even think it's all that bad.

To be honest I don't really understand why, if all the OP wants is damage mitigation, he doesn't just go and choose GSB as his bonus power and be done with it. I mean, that's what it's there for, and the casters have far and away enough cooldown reduction to effectively manage the heavy cooldown. I know my Adept virtually never leaves home without Barrier. Engies can be played without shielding if preferred, but anyone who wants to play the 'hardened caster' role without descending into Sentinel mediocrity should just pick the necessary bonus power.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

termokanden wrote...
I argued that the drone itself doesn't need a buff. However, tech powers don't have warp explosions, and the tech version of pull/throw is just plain worse.

So I think tech powers need to be improved.

I think that's your problem right there. There is no 'tech version' of pull and throw. That isn't the kind of gameplay the Engineer offers.

Cryo Blast is basically a significantly weaker version of Pull.

While they're both casters, Adepts are generally closer to nukers and CCer's while Engineers are closer to summoners/support classes - it's why they have anti-defence heavyweights like Incinerate and Overload and can create minions, but fall down a bit on direct affects like Throw and Pull.

 
But there's only really drone to support that. Adepts have anti-defense heavyweights too. Adepts cover barriers and armor, while engineers cover shields and armor.

Engineers are supposed to support an attack by weakening and turning enemies while Adepts actually drop the nukes and the CC.

Adepts can weaken and turn enemies just as much as the engineers can. And engineers can CC with drone. I don't really see the big difference to be honest. 

They're two different caster playstyles - that in itself isn't really a reason for tech powers to be 'improved'.

They cover the same role, but there is a better synergy between biotic powers. That is one thing I'd like to see changed. The other concrete suggestion I have is to buff Cryo Blast. 3 second cooldown, instantly freezes enemies.

Furthermore, I still can't understand why sentinels have lower cooldowns than engineers and adepts. Both adepts and engineers should have their passives buffed to 30%.

On paper, it does seem a bit silly when the jack of all trades actually beats the specialists in cooldowns in their respective fields, but like a lot else in ME2, it really needs to be considered in context. Sentinels derive a lot of their worth from their tech armour, which carries a punishing 12-sec cooldown. Without it they're basically a weak CCer/nuker that lacks any really potent abilities or combos. They *need* it up at all times and hence, they'd be unfairly hit with cooldown issues without that large reduction.

No. Tech Armor is so powerful it deserves a large cooldown. If you want to use it all the time, you shouldn't be spamming other powers. As a sentinel, you can play the same game an adept or engineer would. If you do that, you don't need to keep refreshing it every cooldown.

Even then, it's worth pointing out that Demolisher, Raider and Nemesis specialisations are all effectively the same. The Sentinel has to sacrifice a 15% damage boost to get that improved cooldown you mention, and on a class that has weak CC and two damage powers but no way of setting of explosions or directing attention away from them, that's not a straightforward choice.

It's a very straightforward choice. If you spam powers, you take Power Armor and a 30% cooldown. There are other ways to play a sentinel though.

Sentinels do depend a lot on their bonus power, but there are plenty of good ones. If you haven't tried Flashbang spamming with a sentinel, I can tell you that this is quite impressive CC.

Understand that I'm not asking for huge buffs. I just think it's a shame that there is no synergy between tech powers like there is between biotic powers, and that Cryo Blast is so weak.

Modifié par termokanden, 13 septembre 2010 - 07:04 .

[OniGanon]

Balance doesn't mean being the same. It means using different methods to reach the same point in a similar amount of time with a similar amount of effort. The Eviscerator and Claymore are pretty well balanced guns, but they are pretty different.

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...
Cryo Blast is basically a significantly weaker version of Pull.

What do you expect? Tech powers don't specialise in CC.

But there's only really drone to support that. Adepts have anti-defense heavyweights too. Adepts cover barriers and armor, while engineers cover shields and armor.

No. There isn't 'just drone'. Overload functions as a semi-cc in addition to it's anti-shield role, overheating guns and stunning mechs allowing a break in fire. Incinerate weakens regen enemies like Krogan and Vorcha while crowd controlling organics in addition to it's anti-armour role. Cryo inflicts affected enemies with a 100% increase in damage taken for softening up purposes in addition to it's CC. Hacking is the very definition of a 'weakening' power, removing an enemy from the opposition and turning it into a freely dispensable walking target.

*Every single ability in the Engineer's arsenal is geared towards weakining and disrupting opponents*. That's what techs specialise in.

Adepts can weaken and turn enemies just as much as the engineers can. And engineers can CC with drone. I don't really see the big difference to be honest. 

Well, this is just blatantly false. They have no abilities to 'turn' enemies at all and 'weakening' them.... well, I suppose they can set up ragdolls. But they're often better just slamming opponents out the way or detonating warp explosions. You can't realistically claim this is on the same scale as what an Engy can do in terms of reducing the effectiveness of an opponent.

They cover the same role, but there is a better synergy between biotic powers.

That's primarily because biotic abilities typically have fewer effects than tech powers. Combo'ing is a forte of the Biotics, just as multiple effects are for techs.

No. Tech Armor is so powerful it deserves a large cooldown. If you want to use it all the time, you shouldn't be spamming other powers. As a sentinel, you can play the same game an adept or engineer would. If you do that, you don't need to keep refreshing it every cooldown.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here - my point was that all other casters rely on powers with significantly shorter cooldowns. If a Sentinel is to make any major use of Tech Armour at all, he can't really make do with just Adept/Engy level reductions. It's fine for them because having a shield bonus power is a nice-to-have which allows them to play more agressively - for a sentinel, it's the difference between playing to their strengths can playing like a crap Adept.

Understand that I'm not asking for huge buffs. I just think it's a shame that there is no synergy between tech powers like there is between biotic powers, and that Cryo Blast is so weak.

Well, I'm afraid that's how the powers are set up. Tech abilities tend to have multple effects and are more flexible. You can't simply expect an affinity for combos on top of this and think balance won't be affected.

[termokanden]

[quote]JaegerBane wrote...

[quote]termokanden wrote...
Cryo Blast is basically a significantly weaker version of Pull.
[/quote]

What do you expect? Tech powers don't specialise in CC.[/quote]

Everything is competing for one global cooldown. Cryo Blast is just too weak. You can't excuse that by saying tech powers are not about CC.

[quote]

No. There isn't 'just drone'. Overload functions as a semi-cc in addition to it's anti-shield role, overheating guns and stunning mechs allowing a break in fire.[/quote]
CC. I thought you said tech wasn't about CC. You said tech was about summoning/support earlier. Only drone supports this statement. The "support" is the same kind of deal you get with biotic powers, and drone is basically just CC. It's not much of a real combat pet like you see in other games.
 




[quote]Incinerate weakens regen enemies like Krogan and Vorcha while crowd controlling organics in addition to it's anti-armour role.[/quote]

These are secondary effects on a damage power, and biotic powers have them too. Warp stops regen, Reave stuns organics. They both work against armor and barriers, just like tech has powers against shields and armor.
 




[quote]Cryo inflicts affected enemies with a 100% increase in damage taken for softening up purposes in addition to it's CC.[/quote]
Exactly like Pull. Except Pull has a lower cooldown, sets up Warp explosions and works instantly.
 



[quote]Hacking is the very definition of a 'weakening' power, removing an enemy from the opposition and turning it into a freely dispensable walking target.[/quote]
No, that is the very definition of CC, which you claim tech is not about.





[quote]*Every single ability in the Engineer's arsenal is geared towards weakining and disrupting opponents*. That's what techs specialise in.[/quote]
I still firmly believe tech powers have the same role as biotic powers.

[quote][quote]
Adepts can weaken and turn enemies just as much as the engineers can. And engineers can CC with drone. I don't really see the big difference to be honest. 
[/quote]

Well, this is just blatantly false. They have no abilities to 'turn' enemies at all and 'weakening' them.... [/quote]
Speaking of blatantly false, say hi to Dominate. All the anti-defense stuff, adepts have that too. As for added damage, there's the ragdoll damage increase.

[quote][quote]
They cover the same role, but there is a better synergy between biotic powers.
[/quote]

That's primarily because biotic abilities typically have fewer effects than tech powers. Combo'ing is a forte of the Biotics, just as multiple effects are for techs.[/quote]

They are quite similar I think, but Overload does have 2 secondary effects. It doesn't compare in any way to Warp explosions though. Remember, I'm not saying all the tech powers are underpowered.


[quote]I'm not really sure what you're getting at here - my point was that all other casters rely on powers with significantly shorter cooldowns. If a Sentinel is to make any major use of Tech Armour at all, he can't really make do with just Adept/Engy level reductions. It's fine for them because having a shield bonus power is a nice-to-have which allows them to play more agressively - for a sentinel, it's the difference between playing to their strengths can playing like a crap Adept.[/quote]

I'm trying to say that Tech Armor has a large cooldown to balance it. Having every cooldown reduced means they are better power spammers than adepts/engineers.


[quote]Well, I'm afraid that's how the powers are set up. Tech abilities tend to have multple effects and are more flexible. You can't simply expect an affinity for combos on top of this and think balance won't be affected. Well, I'm afraid that's how the powers are set up. Tech abilities tend to have multple effects and are more flexible. You can't simply expect an affinity for combos on top of this and think balance won't be affected.[/quote]

Biotic powers also tend to have multiple effects but anyway. I very much doubt it would break balance. But it would make tech a little cooler and perhaps make it more fun to play an engineer.

In any case, Cryo Blast certainly needs a buff.

Modifié par termokanden, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:36 .