164 réponses à ce sujet

[The_Mighty_Azure]

I really don't think Future has even played Mass Effect 2.



The geth that attacked the citadel and that you fought was a faction of 5% of all geth, the heretics. After legions loyalty mission, they were dealt with (I blew them up).



And for the argument with the Quarian V Geth war, the quarians attacked them first. Did you expect the Geth to lay down and die?

[Kavadas]

They were malfunctioning robots, the Quarians were part of the council, and AIs were illegal. They only had one option.

Oh yeah, and the Geth are psychopathic robots. No emotion. No morality. They're butchers and, frankly, all of them deserved to be deactivated/destroyed at some point because they aren't even capable of knowing what they do is wrong or incorrect.

You can't rationalize away the genocide of an entire civilization, fanboi. The Geth have no emotions. They didn't "fear" for their existence because they can't.

They just murdered, and murdered, and murdered. And these are the orthodox Geth, btw.

Modifié par Kavadas, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:16 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

DLC for retaking Rannoch wouldn't work because it would be forcing characters to side with the Han Gerel. Many players favor peace with the Geth. Also, the Quarians have no chance of success. The Geth are much more powerful than they were when they drove the Quarians off Rannoch, and now the Quarians have a population of only 17 million.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

The_Mighty_Azure wrote...

I really don't think Future has even played Mass Effect 2.

The geth that attacked the citadel and that you fought was a faction of 5% of all geth, the heretics. After legions loyalty mission, they were dealt with (I blew them up).

And for the argument with the Quarian V Geth war, the quarians attacked them first. Did you expect the Geth to lay down and die?

just saying... well the geth started attacking us first later... 

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

DLC for retaking Rannoch wouldn't work because it would be forcing characters to side with the Han Gerel. Many players favor peace with the Geth. Also, the Quarians have no chance of success. The Geth are much more powerful than they were when they drove the Quarians off Rannoch, and now the Quarians have a population of only 17 million.

i meant with taking out a main geth network on rannoch, not going full throttle against a massive force of geth.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[The_Mighty_Azure]

Kavadas wrote...

They were malfunctioning robots, the Quarians were part of the council, and AIs were illegal. They only had one option.

Oh yeah, and the Geth are psychopathic robots. No emotion. No morality. They're butchers and, frankly, all of them deserved to be deactivated/destroyed at some point because they aren't even capable of knowing what they do is wrong or incorrect.

You can't rationalize away the genocide of an entire civilization, fanboi. The Geth have no emotions. They didn't "fear" for their existence because they can't.

They just murdered, and murdered, and murdered. And these are the orthodox Geth, btw.

I'm not a geth sympathiser, i don't trust them, but i'm just stating the facts.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Kavadas wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

That was a subfaction of the Geth that has since been dealt with. Or has did someone miss the entire point of Legions loyalty mission?

No, it wasn't a subfaction.  The Geth who butchered billions of Quarians were just the Geth then since it was their first action after becoming sentient; the Heretics hadn't broken off yet.  This was 300 years ago, rememeber.

Anyways, let's have some fun with math, shall we?  Let's see some stats of the awesome good guy Geth!

Quarian population of Rannoch pre-Geth War:  Billions
Quarian population of Migrant Fleet: 17,000,000

"Billions" is vague so we'll go as conservatively as is possible: 2,000,000,000 Quarians on Rannoch pre-Geth War.

The 17 million number holds up because the fleet enforces a "zero population growth" policy which means that 17 million is basically the exact amount of survivors from the massacre 300 years ago.

Current day Quarian population as a percentage of 2 billion: 0.0085, or 0.85%.

Meaning that in the Geth War the Geth massacred 99.15% of the Quarian species using the most conserative numbers available.

Just for some more perspective here are some more realistic numbers for this situation based off of percentages from the 2009 U.S. Census and applied to the pre-Geth War Quarian population numbers.

Again, using 2 billion as the most conservative estimate:

• U.S. Census - Children under the age of 5: 6.9%
• Applied to the Quarrian population of Rannoch:  138,000,000
• Using the 0.0085, or 0.85%, (17 million divided by 2 billion) the number of survivors of this age demographic: 1,173,000
• Total killed by the Geth: 136,827,000

• U.S. Census - Children under the age of 18: 24.3%
• Applied to the Quarrian population of Rannoch: 486,000,000
• Using the 0.0085, or 0.85%, (17 million divided by 2 billion) the number of survivors of this age demographic: 4,131,000
• Total killed by the Geth: 481,869,000

Yeah, that's right, the Geth murdered 136,827,000 babies and toddlers.

So
what, the Geth just woke up fearing for the lives (which, as Legion
explicitly states, isn't possible because the Geth don't have emotions)
and murdered over one hundred and thirty million children?

Hey, maybe it was just an accident though, right?  That'll excuse their behavior!

[*]
[*]The Quarians attacked the Geth not the other way around, No matter how much you bend the story of Mass Effect it can never constitute murder when you're defending yourself from a attack.

dude, geth aren't little children... and geth attacked human colonies too... 

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Kavadas wrote...

They were malfunctioning robots, the Quarians were part of the council, and AIs were illegal. They only had one option.

Oh yeah, and the Geth are psychopathic robots. No emotion. No morality. They're butchers and, frankly, all of them deserved to be deactivated/destroyed at some point because they aren't even capable of knowing what they do is wrong or incorrect.

You can't rationalize away the genocide of an entire civilization, fanboi. The Geth have no emotions. They didn't "fear" for their existence because they can't.

They just murdered, and murdered, and murdered. And these are the orthodox Geth, btw.

:unsure:if you talk with legion, he makes as if he doesn't understand basic civil concepts, just a hive mind of being one of many bull****.

[Aedan_Cousland]

The Geth and Quarians fought a war, and the Quarians lost. It's time for the Quarians to finally admit that fact and come to the peace table. In fact a peaceful resolution to the centuries old conflict is the only possible way the Quarians could ever return to their home planet. They lack the strength and numbers to reclaim their home planet by force. Han Gerel's plan is either one born of madnes or desperation, and it has no chance whatsoever of success. Even worse, it risks Quarian extinction, a very real possibility should Han Gerel's gamble fail.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:31 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Kavadas wrote...

They were malfunctioning robots, the Quarians were part of the council, and AIs were illegal. They only had one option.

Oh yeah, and the Geth are psychopathic robots. No emotion. No morality. They're butchers and, frankly, all of them deserved to be deactivated/destroyed at some point because they aren't even capable of knowing what they do is wrong or incorrect.

You can't rationalize away the genocide of an entire civilization, fanboi. The Geth have no emotions. They didn't "fear" for their existence because they can't.

They just murdered, and murdered, and murdered. And these are the orthodox Geth, btw.

The geth knows no fear, But they do have a concept of self preservation, They are sentient - Do remember that the Qaurrians did attacked because they feared the Geth had achieved sentience.

The Geth had become sentient and the quarrians didn't ask what the Geth wanted or if they somehow could resolved this peacefully, No the Qaurrians just attacked and the Geth like any sentient species defended themselves.

The Qaurrians attacked and got their asses handed to them, In the end the Qaurrians have nobody to blame for their situation than themselves

[FuturePasTimeCE]

more and more of this reverse psyche jargon.

[Kronner]

Dave of Canada wrote...

If the Quarians attack the Geth first then I'm wiping out the Quarians.

Legion is my bro. *brofist with Legion*

This. I'd pick the geth side over quarian any day and twice on Sundays.

[Breakdown Boy]

I believe the Geth are reasonable and so let Zalchorus (or wtf his name) lead the peace talks and then we can all have a big party on the qwib-qwib!!!
Otherwise if there's war I say gas the quarians and take their ships, the geth are much more useful against the reapers.

[Anacronian Stryx]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

more and more of this reverse psyche jargon.

Do you even know what that means?

[asaiasai]

The Quarians started a war to cover up thier illegal activities and got thier asses kicked, as they should have. Over the last 300 years the Quarians have grown weaker and the Geth have grown stronger to the point any hostile attempt by the Quarians to engage the Geth would be suicide. If the Quarians are that delusional that they think they stand a chance against the might of the Geth, then dinosaurs should be extinct. I would rather have a strong rational ally in the comming conflagration than a weak delusional one. Maybe my Shepaerd will have to intervene in this war so many here want, but i will not join the Quarians. I think it will be time to play cowboys and Quarians, as low class and offensive as that analogy is, reality is what it is. As a person of Native American descent (25%) we are getting our revenge in the form of casino gambling and duty free smokes. Revenge is a dish best served with a double shot of single malt in a comped hotel room.



Back to my original point if the Quarians can not be talked down, and shoot first then i say stand back let the Geth do what they are good at and the problem will eventually solve itself. Negotiate, honor the commitments of the negotiation, or be extincted those are really the only choices the Quarians have. No one said they are entitled to any others like it, lump it or die that is the Quarian reality.



Asai

[Kavadas]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

The Geth had become sentient and the quarrians didn't ask what the Geth wanted or if they somehow could resolved this peacefully, No the Qaurrians just attacked and the Geth like any sentient species defended themselves.

LOL, if your microwave becomes sentient are you going to negotiate peace terms with it?  No, you're gonna freak the hell out and unplug it immediately because it was accidental and probably pretty scary.

But hey, let's give your microwave arms, legs, total integration into your society's armed forces, and then roll with it.

Don't pretend like you, personally, would have done anything differently.

The Quarians had no intention of ever letting the Geth become sentient.  It was a mistake, an accident.  AIs were illegal in council space at the time.  Don't sit here and play like you would have done anything differently.  For better or worse every poster on this board would have reacted the same way and undertaken the same actions.

In the end the Qaurrians have nobody to blame for their situation than themselves

I agree with this; they are the victims of a situation that they are responsible for creating in the first place.  Does this excuse any of the actions of the Geth?  The murder of 135 million infants and toddlers?  The total massacre of 99.15% of all Quarians when anyone with the slightest grasp of war prosecution fundamentally acknowledges that it doesn't take total genocide to win a war?

Of course it doesn't.  As much as the Quarians made their bed and have to lay in it so do the Geth; the only distinction between the two is that the Quarians don't have to answer for the massacre of billions.

And if we want to be truly honest here let's just admit the fact that Legion converted a bunch of people into pure fanbois who, for no other reason than thinking it's so "uber kewlz", will defend the Geth for every perverse war crime and atrocity they've ever committed (and the tally for those are probably beyond counting).

Modifié par Kavadas, 14 septembre 2010 - 10:27 .

[Chuvvy]

If the Quarians attack you can beat your ass I'd fight with the Geth. I was a Geth sympathizer back in ME1 ME2 confirmed my sympathies.

[Inverness Moon]

Kavadas wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

The Geth had become sentient and the quarrians didn't ask what the Geth wanted or if they somehow could resolved this peacefully, No the Qaurrians just attacked and the Geth like any sentient species defended themselves.

LOL, if your microwave becomes sentient are you going to negotiate peace terms with it?  No, you're gonna freak the hell out and unplug it immediately because it was accidental and probably pretty scary.

But hey, let's give your microwave arms, legs, total integration into your society's armed forces, and then roll with it.

Don't pretend like you, personally, would have done anything differently.

The Quarians had no intention of ever letting the Geth become sentient.  It was a mistake, an accident.  AIs were illegal in council space at the time.  Don't sit here and play like you would have done anything differently.  For better or worse every poster on this board would have reacted the same way and undertaken the same actions.

Maybe your first thought is murder, but mine isn't.

And I don't mind that you have a different opinion on the matter than me, but I do mind when you pretend to speak for yourself or anyone else on this board. You don't.

Kavadas wrote...

In the end the Qaurrians have nobody to blame for their situation than themselves

I agree with this; they are the victims of a situation that they are responsible for creating in the first place.  Does this excuse any of the actions of the Geth?  The murder of 135 million infants and toddlers?  The total massacre of 99.15% of all Quarians when anyone with the slightest grasp of war prosecution fundamentally acknowledges that it doesn't take total genocide to win a war?

Of course it doesn't.  As much as the Quarians made their bed and have to lay in it so do the Geth; the only distinction between the two is that the Quarians don't have to answer for the massacre of billions.

And if we want to be truly honest here let's just admit the fact that Legion converted a bunch of people into pure fanbois who, for no other reason than thinking it's so "uber kewlz", will defend the Geth for every perverse war crime and atrocity they've ever committed (and the tally for those are probably beyond counting).

It's quite interesting how you push the whole "infants and toddlers" thing in order to drive your point home. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way with the geth.

How much of their actions can be excused depends on what they understood at the time. We don't know if the geth understood that quarians were individuals and did not build consensus on actions like the geth. They could have easily believed that if any quarians attacked it meant that they had built a consensus on attacking the geth, no matter if individual quarians tried to escape from combat. The geth also probably did not distinguish a child from an adult, because, why would they? They probably thought children just represented future threats to be disposed of.

Of course what they did is terrible by our standards, but their intentions weren't. The intention of the quarians was genocide, for the geth it was survival. That is significant to my feelings on the issue.

[Kavadas]

Inverness Moon wrote...

How much of their actions can be excused depends on what they understood at the time.

Here ya go, folks.  According to Inverness Moon ignorance is a perfectly suitable and justified excuse for the massacre of billions.

If that's how you feel then there's no point in actually debating this. 

You may have the last word, sir or madame.

[Killjoy Cutter]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

 the quarian homeworld should be a minshira class moon suitable for sentient life (specifully suited in this sense, since the quarian's need a different atmosphere) . They should model it after Noveria, with the architecture of Haestrom (MAELSTROM in star trek)(like Andora from Star Trek, Pandora from Avatar, or Phendrana Drifts of Metroid Prime)... I'd say Phendrana Drifts is a perfect model of their Homeworld.



how come they don't have exotic vacation homeworlds that look like this in mass effect (looking like pensacola fl)?

The Quarians need a different atmosphere? 

Since when?  What are you basing this on? 

In fact, I'd say that a certain LI path in ME2 pretty much nullifies any notion that they need a different atmosphere.

Also, Prazza mentions the Quarian suits having CO2 scrubbers, which implies an O2/CO2 respiration cycle.

[Killjoy Cutter]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
 dude, geth aren't little children... and geth attacked human colonies too... 

The Heretics did, yes.  It appears that the mainline Geth want nothing to do with war against organics.

[nelly21]

Guys they're robots. Legion's cool and all but he's still a robot.

[Killjoy Cutter]

nelly21 wrote...

Guys they're robots. Legion's cool and all but he's still a robot.

We are also machines.  Organic machines, but machines none the less. 

It's not about what they're made of, it's about whether they're self-aware, self-motivating, and thinking entities.

[nelly21]

Their "self awareness" is the result of decision making programing by the Quarians. Are the Quarians gods then?

[Killjoy Cutter]

nelly21 wrote...

Their "self awareness" is the result of decision making programing by the Quarians. Are the Quarians gods then?

What do "gods" and other myths have to do with this? 

It's not a question of where the Geth come from, it's a question of what the Geth have become and what they are capable of.