164 réponses à ce sujet

[Inverness Moon]

Kavadas wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Yes. In the case of the geth, their ignorance can excuse quite a lot of their actions during the Morning War.

Oh, so you did mean ignorance is an acceptable justification for genocide.

...so why did you deny it???

I denied using the word justify, which I didn't, because that word has different implications than excuse to me. And clearly it does to you also, since you said "not only excuses but justifies."

So I'll say it again, I said their ignorance excuses them, not justifies their actions.

Kavadas wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

A logical thought process you mean. The geth aren't psychopaths for lacking emotion because they never had them in the first place. It's not a hard concept to understand.

Nope, I mean psychopathic/sociopathic thought process.

And yes, the Geth certainly qualify as a giant psychopath.

• Do they experience emotion?  No.
• Do they understand the concept of emotions?  Maybe/yes (despite what Legion says who really knows).

Tada, the criteria which establishes one as a psychopath/sociopath.

Edit: LOLZ, done with this thread.  Enjoy!

Again, that disorder, and the term psychopath, are not applicable to the geth.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Judging alien intelligence(s) by human DSM criteria is a bit of a... stretch.

[Inverness Moon]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Judging alien intelligence(s) by human DSM criteria is a bit of a... stretch.

If by stretch you mean racist, then yes.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I'm racist against robots and possibility aliens! I am such a bad person. Where are the directions to the reeducation camp?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Judging alien intelligence(s) by human DSM criteria is a bit of a... stretch.

If by stretch you mean racist, then yes.

That's a misuse of the word... a common modern usage, but a misuse none the less.

Let us not dilute words until the mean nothing.

[Inverness Moon]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

That's a misuse of the word... a common modern usage, but a misuse none the less.

Let us not dilute words until the mean nothing.

I'll just direct you to the quote in my signature.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Kavadas wrote...


This is disingenuous; you forget, as Legion himself points out, that Geth neither experience or understand emotions.  This makes the Geth some type of psycopathic-schizoid hivemind.

Are the Geth a type of life?  Yeah.  Are the Geth capable of any level of emotional experience?  No.  Are they even capable of understanding organics' emotions?  Probably not.

The Geth have some qualia and while that does make them technically sentient they are very obviously not sapient.  This actually makes them a lower life form.

Legion says that the Geth do not experience anger like organics do, but that they understand it. That also isn't the same thing as saying that the Geth do not experience any emotion. It is obvious that the Geth do have some emotions, and Legion is an example of it. His Shepard fanboyism is an example of the Geth experiencing emotion. There are other hints dropped throughout the game that the Geth experience emotion as well, whether it is maintaining Rannoch as a kind of battlefield memorial or a fondness for Quarian music.

[mopotter]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

It would be a short DLC for me, as I wouldn't participate. I'm a geth sympathizer.

:huh:what? if you played mass effect 1, then i'd think you totally wouldn't sympathize for their characterization.

I have played both ME1 and Me2.  The geth were protecting themselves.  I am a fan of Admiral Zaal'Koris and by the end of my games, Tali agrees with his view.

However, some kind of dlc where you can pick any of the 3 admirals to support, depending on how  you played ME2 would be interesting.  I would not want to see a game focusing on just one position.

[D.Sharrah]

I think the point the story tellers had in writing about the Geth-Quarian conflict was that you could see the good and evil of both sides...its not supposed to be an easy answer to how you end up handling this issue - but how you handle will have an impact on the galaxy as a whole and will impact the reaper story arc. In general, my playthroughs are paragon and my Shepard is focusing on uniting the galaxy to stand as one against the reaper threat. This includes both the Quarian and the Geth. I think a simple take over mission is not doing this subplot justice. But I do think that they have set-up story mechanics that even a peaceful solution can be interesteing - there is bound to be dissidents on both sides, and a peaceful solution would involve silencing any opposition to peace. Just on the admirality board itself you have some interesting options for story driven choices to make (Gerrel - who wants war, and Xen - who wants to re-assimilate the Geth).

[Killjoy Cutter]

mopotter wrote...
I have played both ME1 and Me2.  The geth were protecting themselves.  I am a fan of Admiral Zaal'Koris and by the end of my games, Tali agrees with his view.

How do you manage that?

[Killjoy Cutter]

D.Sharrah wrote...

I think the point the story tellers had in writing about the Geth-Quarian conflict was that you could see the good and evil of both sides...its not supposed to be an easy answer to how you end up handling this issue - but how you handle will have an impact on the galaxy as a whole and will impact the reaper story arc.

Indeed.  People picking sides here and going whole-hog-angry about it are missing the mutual tragedy of the entire situation for both sides.

[robtheguru]

Tali is worth a poke but at the same time, I love the Geth. Diplomancy is the only way for me, otherwise i'd just rather wipe both races out. Both or nothing.

Modifié par robtheguru, 14 septembre 2010 - 05:52 .

[mopotter]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

mopotter wrote...
I have played both ME1 and Me2.  The geth were protecting themselves.  I am a fan of Admiral Zaal'Koris and by the end of my games, Tali agrees with his view.

How do you manage that?

When she confronts Legion I usually have enough persuasive skill to get her to see his side and co-operate.  One small step towards seeing the geth as something other than machines who attacked.  Like the Bicentennial Man or I Robot  based on the books by Isaac Asimov, the geth are evolving and Tali acknowledges this when she agrees to share knowledge with Legion.  

Of course in the games where I don't have enough persuasive skill's it just depends on how I feel at the time who I support.

[DanaScu]

Kavadas wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's not about what they're made of, it's about whether they're self-aware, self-motivating, and thinking entities.

This is disingenuous; you forget, as Legion himself points out, that Geth neither experience or understand emotions.  This makes the Geth some type of psycopathic-schizoid hivemind.

Are the Geth a type of life?  Yeah.  Are the Geth capable of any level of emotional experience?  No.  Are they even capable of understanding organics' emotions?  Probably not.

The Geth have some qualia and while that does make them technically sentient they are very obviously not sapient.  This actually makes them a lower life form.

Are the geth evolving?

Ask Legion why he used Shepard's armor. Nice, clear-cut reasoning, right? Out of all the debris/scrap around he picks Shepard's armor. Not an emotionless choice, imo.

Ask about the quarian worlds. Why are they acting as caretakers? Why did they turn the worlds into monuments for the Morning War? And since he mentions Auschwitz, I don't think they are commemorating "WE WON!!"

Three hundred years in real time ago the geth were barely sentient. Now? I'm not so sure. Geth don't see or experience time the way organics do. How long has it been for them since the war with the quarians? I think its possible that the geth now are not the same as the geth were then.