1503 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Kerethos_ wrote...
As for the Chantry in general, one must remember that it is largely a part of politics – and it is not just religion. While I do not agree with the Chantry, I do not hate those that turn to it for answers about life’s mysteries. Unfortunately the Chantry teaches things that will inevitably lead to violence, on all that do not embrace their teachings. Thus they will, in fact; they must, convert the Dwarves, the Elves and the Qunari, or destroy them whilst trying. The Chant must be spread to all four corners of the world – and with it comes oppression and death. Any religion that promotes war and conquest of non-believers is a religion that I cannot support, and I would consider it to be, in fact, evil.

I fail to see the "by force" part in the "spreading the chant to all 4 corners of the world". Of course they wil ltry and spread their beliefs. Everyone is doing it, conciously or not. If you believe you're right you will try to "educte" someone who's not. You don't even need to be religious to do that.

Well no. But I see a difference in not allowing people to drive
tanks and imprisoning someone for lifetime just because of what he is.
Also I am not against control over mages. I just think the mages can do
it themselves, they need no dimwit near crazy sword swingers with
an inbred dislike for magic to guard them. The problem I have with the
Chantry is not that they try to establish order, my problem is the way
they do it.

I didn't say "peopel driving tanks"..because yo ucan take away a tank from someone (if diffficult). I said sentient tank. So you can't separate the big-ass cannon from him. That's the probem. A loaded gun 24/7. No way to put it in the safe for the night. Get drunk, get mad and all hell breaks loose.
Arguably, there's the Tranquil procedure.
And self-policing is never a good idea. Never was. That's why you always have completely independant and different organizations watching over eachother.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ImoenBaby wrote...

That was unintentionally ironic.

You know, when you used your dismissive "teenage rebels" remark, you derailed your entire argument: there was an actual "teenage rebel" who was run through by the Templars in DA:O. You know, Wynne's student.

He fled because he was suddenly alienated from home life, and had trouble coping. Not because he was a blood mage, or an abomination, or because, hey - if the Templars decide you're a threat, you're dead.  

He was hunted by a gang from the armed wing of the Chantry, and run through with a sword...because he was a frightened elf child in a world controlled by strange humans.

No, it's definitely not shallow and simplistic to describe the Chantry as a tyranny.  It is a factual description of reality under Chantry rule, at least for those who - gasp! the immaturity! - want freedom to live free of persecution. It's by no means the Chantry's only characteristic, but it is a defining one for apostates, and I bet anyone else who disagrees with the religious powers that be.

But yes. There are always those who will think it's generous to not kill mages, just blanket oppress them regardless of their individual motivations and histories. Oh, the princely generosity. Paragons of beneficience.

What's that you say? But mages are potentially dangerous? So are males. A disproportionately large group commits the most violent crime, and the most serious. They are potentially and factually responsible for most violent disruptions of civil order.  IN FACT, SO IS ANYONE, with enough numbers or power.  

And what's that? Mages are historically responsible for the Dark City? According to the Chantry, you mean?

Let's assume the Chantry's correct: how does it follow that all mages, everywhere, at all times, should always be oppressed/supervised/whatever you want to call it? Should all Germans be on a leash after WW2? Oh, wait, they can't be dominated by demons. I forgot that part. They can only be swayed by a charismatic leader and their own prejudices.They can only command an arsenal of world-destroying weaponry. 

EPIC FAIL.

I don't even know where to begin. You single out one instance of a mage being cut down? So what. When someone has a loaded gun, you wil lshoot to protect yourself, regardless if he's scared or not. **** happens. Wynne herself thinks templars are needed and has no hatered for hte Chantry. What does that tell you.

You say opression, I say bull****. The mages have it good considering they are walking nukes. You're even against supervision as I see. Your attitude is simply illogical. Under your rule, Thedas would fall apart in a few days.

And no, you cannot compare males to mages. Do I really have to go an exaplin exactly why such comparison is flawed on so many levels?

[Lotion Soronarr]

jpdipity wrote...
On the other hand, the rigid, lock-them-away, remove all personal freedoms, forcibily remove the infant child of a mage after birth, strip mages of their identity and history all in the name of keeping the rest of society safe is beyond extreme and causes more harm than good in my opinion.

Furthermore, it is absolutely repugnant to imprison an entire group of people based on possessing a set of attributes that they were born with and cannot change. I will not support an organization who regularly commits abhorent acts simply because they donate large sums of money to good causes and operate under the guise that they are protecting society from potential crimes that may or may not ever happen.

I'm willing to bet anything you wantt that if mages and abominations were real, you'd be singing a different tune. Sometimes, discrimination is simply warranted... Like, let's say some people have the plague..and you don't posses the cure. Will you give them a brotherly hug or will you drive them away from the cities?

Mages have it better than most people in Thedas. Free education, food, clean clothes, roof over their heads, protection...But it's never enough, is it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

jonv1234 wrote...
Becoming an abomination has more to do with the human host being too weakminded to resist the temptation the demon offered to them. a sufficiently strong minded mage will be able to resist the demon.

So, after a reasonable training period, and a test, ie the harrowing, the mage should be deemed free to live their lives in the company of others as they see fit.

Need I remind you that like many others, Uldred passed hte Harrowing. The Harrowing is not a clear tests that somehow proves you will never get possesed. It just shows that you managed to resist possesion that one time. There may be smarter demons, and chances of possesion will be many..and human have their moments of weakness.


The needs of the many > needs fo the few.
If you had a bunch of peopel born with a nuke insdie their body that many or may not go off at any time, and that nuike cannot be removed - what would you do?
You'd round them up and keep them awa from the cities. Lesser of two evils.

[Everwarden]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

jonv1234 wrote...
Becoming an abomination has more to do with the human host being too weakminded to resist the temptation the demon offered to them. a sufficiently strong minded mage will be able to resist the demon.

So, after a reasonable training period, and a test, ie the harrowing, the mage should be deemed free to live their lives in the company of others as they see fit.

Need I remind you that like many others, Uldred passed hte Harrowing. The Harrowing is not a clear tests that somehow proves you will never get possesed. It just shows that you managed to resist possesion that one time. There may be smarter demons, and chances of possesion will be many..and human have their moments of weakness.


The needs of the many > needs fo the few.
If you had a bunch of peopel born with a nuke insdie their body that many or may not go off at any time, and that nuike cannot be removed - what would you do?
You'd round them up and keep them awa from the cities. Lesser of two evils.

You realize that your plan to 'end the mage menace' would result in Qunari domination in likely under twenty years if it went through successfully, right?

Good thinking, Kadan. Anaan esaam qun!

Panahedan.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Anathemic wrote...
Reasons why the Chantry fails
1) The current Chantry is nothing at all what Andraste wanted, again "Magic is meant to serve man, never to rule over him." This literal phrase that Andraste has spoken can be relayed in "Great Power comes great responsibility" (Spiderman quote ftw). So what does the Chantry do? Caught up in their fear and the downfall of the old Tevinter  Imperium they went persecuting and imprisoning mages left and right and whoever rebelled was immediatly killed.

That line cna be interpreted in multiple ways. If you cannot prove that your interpretation is hte correct one, then you cannot call the Chantry wrong.

2) Mages. Mages are people too. Magic is not learned, you are born with it. Again basic rights people, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. A mage can't help it if he's born with magical traits/abilities, neither can a leper help it that he's a leper, and yet we don't see lepers being imprisoned in towers and killed at random.

You views are nto compatible with the reality of Thedas.
Mind you, in ye olde days, people with uncurable deases were banished from the cities and some were killed on sight.

People bring up the topic of blood magic and blood mages, well look at
this way. Every sentient being has free will, with this free will
anyone can become anyone/anything, a savior, genoicider, etc. "Chantry
protects us from abominations and stuff!" Well yes, but abominations do
not all come from mages, a regular person whose not a mage can become
an abomination, it's just that mages are like 'ice cream' to demons.

A regular person becoming an abomination is very rare, as the window for possesion is MUCH smaller and the circumstances for such happening more extreeme. Can you name a single non-amge abomination in the game?

How bout instead of imprisoning mages up in the tower for the rest of their lives, how about a basic education system, hmm i dunno oh wait SCHOOL! ZOMFG. There they learn to harness their powers, and when they are ready ie pass the Harrowing, they can go out into the world with all the freedoms everyone else has.

Wouldn't work. A little thing called reality has isssues with it.

3) Templars. Templars are the holy warriors of the Chantry blahblahblah. Templars are the drug-addicts of the Chantry. The Chantry drugs the Templars with raw lyrium to keep them under their thumb, wow that's all righteous and holy isn't it?

Name evil and abusive templars in the game.
Now name good templars....Hmm.. For some reason, I fail to see your point.

4) Exalted Marches, the only good Exalted March was Andraste's march on the Tevinter Imperium, everything after that was stupid.
Exalted March on the elves! Why? Because they have pointy ears and don't worship da Maker!
Exalted March on the Qunari! Why? Because they come from dah sea and the Qun sucks!
Oh and one of the endings for DA:O:
Exalted March on Orzammar! Why? Because they got golems! (really now, that's stupid considering dwarves are your only defense so that Blights don't happen left and right)

Fail. Do I really have to explain why? Yes?
- You don't know exactly what prompted the march on the elves. Not enough data.
- The qunari were invading and killing people. If that's not reason enough to call for a march, nothing is.
- forcibly binding the souls of people to golems in a excrutiating and painfull manner? A agressive and honorless ruler? Increased agression? Don't they spring to mind.


Honesty, do you you expect the Cahtnry to ahve a spotless record? It won't. Who does? Do you? Does any country? By that logic, everyone and everything is evil and should be destroyed/reformed.
Let's destroy the US and France and Germany..they all f**** up at one poitn or another, and they probably wil i nthe future. And kill you while we're at it. Surely you lied at some point. Done something bad.

Defending Blood Magic
Oh no Anathemic, Blood Magic is evil!! So are blood mages, they must die! Well, that's what you percieve. Really I see Blood Magic as WMD (Weapon of Mass Destruction), it's not evil put very powerful and can be used for evil ways (which tends to happen)

Blood Magic is just a branch of what we know as Magic in DA:O, just like a WMD is a branch of weaponology. Sure it came from demons and uses blood, but what are demons? They are spiritual manifestations of emotions, thus they are facets of what makes a person, just that they are bad emotions.

Really if you look at it, you can call Blood Magic "Life Magic" why? Because it harnesses the power of your emotions into weapons, initiated by blood but fueled by emotion. It's that most times Blood Magic is powered by the 'demon' emotions of anger, lust, greed, sloth, and pride. What happens when Blood Magic is powered by the 'good' emotions of happiness,  justice, honor, courage, etc.?

Blood magic is NOT powered by emotion. It's powered by life force. Usually someone elses life force.





conclusion: EPIC FAIL on your part.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Everwarden wrote...
You realize that your plan to 'end the mage menace' would result in Qunari domination in likely under twenty years if it went through successfully, right?

Good thinking, Kadan. Anaan esaam qun!

Panahedan.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

How would it end up in qunari domination? You're making no sense...

[Everwarden]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Everwarden wrote...
You realize that your plan to 'end the mage menace' would result in Qunari domination in likely under twenty years if it went through successfully, right?

Good thinking, Kadan. Anaan esaam qun!

Panahedan.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

How would it end up in qunari domination? You're making no sense...

I see I'm dealing someone with zero grasp on lore. The Qunari have cannons, and until the chantry unleashed their mages the war was completely one-sided and the Qunari took a massive chunk of land. The mages were the one and only thing that put that big boot imprint on their collective Qunari asses.

Edit: I'd suggest reading the codex sections on the Qunari and Par Vollen, and maybe the DA wiki articles.

Modifié par Everwarden, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:23 .

[Morroian]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You say opression, I say bull****. The mages have it good considering they are walking nukes. You're even against supervision as I see. Your attitude is simply illogical. Under your rule, Thedas would fall apart in a few days.

Which is belied by the evidence in game. As quoted already there is evidence of mages controlling themselves (Tevinter), and other groups independent of the chantry surviving with mages not turning into abominations.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Everwarden wrote...

I see I'm dealing someone with zero grasp on lore. The Qunari have cannons, and until the chantry unleashed their mages the war was completely one-sided and the Qunari took a massive chunk of land. The mages were the one and only thing that put that big boot imprint on their collective Qunari asses.

Edit: I'd suggest reading the codex sections on the Qunari and Par Vollen, and maybe the DA wiki articles.

I'm quite familiar with that. I still fail to see what that has to do wiht anything.

It seems you got some strange impression that all mages should be eliminated....

Which is belied by the evidence in game. As quoted already there is
evidence of mages controlling themselves (Tevinter), and other groups
independent of the chantry surviving with mages not turning into
abominations.

Tevinter imperium is NOT a good example, with slave sacrifices and mage tyrants ruling there.
And we do run into an abomination ot two on the roads...the "independants" you so love are not so good at containing abominations, are they?

[Everwarden]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

I see I'm dealing someone with zero grasp on lore. The Qunari have cannons, and until the chantry unleashed their mages the war was completely one-sided and the Qunari took a massive chunk of land. The mages were the one and only thing that put that big boot imprint on their collective Qunari asses.

Edit: I'd suggest reading the codex sections on the Qunari and Par Vollen, and maybe the DA wiki articles.

I'm quite familiar with that. I still fail to see what that has to do wiht anything.

It seems you got some strange impression that all mages should be eliminated....

You're right, I got you confused with someone else earlier in the thread who said:

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions.. He was a menace, and
every mage is a menace and should be dealt with accordingly."

My bad. Though I suppose my question would now become how exactly you propose handling mages without killing them all off?


Regarding the Tevinter Imperium being run by corrupt mages... well, yeah, that's true. Though it shows that mages can control themselves from becoming abominations from within, and any ruling body can be corrupt. The only difference in the case of the empire is that the ruling body is incredibly hard to remove from power.

Modifié par Everwarden, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:53 .

[aaniadyen]

Everwarden wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Everwarden wrote...
You realize that your plan to 'end the mage menace' would result in Qunari domination in likely under twenty years if it went through successfully, right?

Good thinking, Kadan. Anaan esaam qun!

Panahedan.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

How would it end up in qunari domination? You're making no sense...

I see I'm dealing someone with zero grasp on lore. The Qunari have cannons, and until the chantry unleashed their mages the war was completely one-sided and the Qunari took a massive chunk of land. The mages were the one and only thing that put that big boot imprint on their collective Qunari asses.

Edit: I'd suggest reading the codex sections on the Qunari and Par Vollen, and maybe the DA wiki articles.

1. You're not better than him because you read the codex and he doesn't

2. Apostate mages weren't the ones combating the Qunari. The Chantry's mages were. Do you really think if the mages were free, they'd willingly fight the Qunari?

[aaniadyen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Tevinter imperium is NOT a good example, with slave sacrifices and mage tyrants ruling there.
And we do run into an abomination ot two on the roads...the "independants" you so love are not so good at containing abominations, are they?

Not to mention that whole darkspawn blight thing that popped up...you know, because the blood mages wanted to kill god. I think it's a good example of what happens when you let blood mages govern large groups of mages with too many resources.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Everwarden]

aaniadyen wrote...

1. You're not better than him because you read the codex and he doesn't

2. Apostate mages weren't the ones combating the Qunari. The Chantry's mages were. Do you really think if the mages were free, they'd willingly fight the Qunari?

1. I never claimed to be a better person than him, stop putting words in my mouth. This is a debate about game lore, so reading the codex or wiki is fairly important, at least regarding the topic at hand.

2. Yes, if mages were free they would willingly fight the Qunari. The Qunari have a very bad policy when it comes to mages.

aaniadyen wrote...

Not to mention that whole darkspawn
blight thing that popped up...you know, because the blood mages wanted
to kill god. I think it's a good example of what happens when you let
blood mages govern large groups of mages with too many resources.

The only evidence that this is actually how the blights began is the word of the Chantry.

Modifié par Everwarden, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[aaniadyen]

Everwarden wrote...
My bad. Though I suppose my question would now become how exactly you propose handling mages without killing them all off?

My guess would be something a lot like what they're doing now...

Everwarden wrote...
Regarding the Tevinter Imperium being run by corrupt mages... well, yeah, that's true. Though it shows that mages can control themselves from becoming abominations from within, and any ruling body can be corrupt. The only difference in the case of the empire is that the ruling body is incredibly hard to remove from power.

Sure, but bloodmages have a lot more potential to cause harm than non-mages do for a few reasons.

1. They can take control of people, in politics, this would pretty quickly lead to a cluster****. If you were a strong enough bloodmage and were cunning, you could basically control the entire continent if you wanted to.

2. They fuel their magic off of other people's lives. For them to even be able to practice their occupation, they'd need to harm, or kill others.

3. Suseptible to demons.

4. Can invade heaven and cause the maker to invent darkspawn.

[nightcobra]

"you know, one good thing about a crisis is how it brings people together"

"it's like a party, we could all stand in a circle and hold hands, that would give the qunari something to think about."

[Everwarden]

aaniadyen wrote...

Everwarden wrote...
My bad. Though I suppose my question would now become how exactly you propose handling mages without killing them all off?

My guess would be something a lot like what they're doing now...

Everwarden wrote...
Regarding the Tevinter Imperium being run by corrupt mages... well, yeah, that's true. Though it shows that mages can control themselves from becoming abominations from within, and any ruling body can be corrupt. The only difference in the case of the empire is that the ruling body is incredibly hard to remove from power.

Sure, but bloodmages have a lot more potential to cause harm than non-mages do for a few reasons.

1. They can take control of people, in politics, this would pretty quickly lead to a cluster****. If you were a strong enough bloodmage and were cunning, you could basically control the entire continent if you wanted to.

2. They fuel their magic off of other people's lives. For them to even be able to practice their occupation, they'd need to harm, or kill others.

3. Suseptible to demons.

4. Can invade heaven and cause the maker to invent darkspawn.

1 and 2 are true, 3 is almost certainly not true in the case of the Imperium, and the only evidence for 4 is the, again, the word of the chantry.

[aaniadyen]

Everwarden wrote...
1. I never claimed to be a better person than him, stop putting
words in my mouth. This is a debate about game lore, so reading the
codex or wiki is fairly important, at least regarding the topic at hand.

Could have fooled me when you said "I see I'm dealing someone with zero grasp on lore."

Everwarden wrote...
2. Yes, if mages were free they would willingly fight the Qunari. The Qunari have a very bad policy when it comes to mages.

Sure, but who'd mobilize an army of mages if they were randomly scattered through the country? The Chantry had them gathered to one place where they're used for deployment in battles. I doubt that's how it would work if the mages were free to live however they pleased.

Everwarden wrote...
The only evidence that this is actually how the blights began is the word of the Chantry.

And the only evidence of it being false is the testimony of an organization who fuels their magic off of other people's pain, use magic created by demons and engage in open slave trading and work to expand it?

I'll stick with the Chantry.

[aaniadyen]

nightcobra8928 wrote...


"you know, one good thing about a crisis is how it brings people together"
"it's like a party, we could all stand in a circle and hold hands, that would give the qunari something to think about."

I like you.

Everwarden wrote...
3 is almost certainly not true in the case of the Imperium

How so?

Besides, even if those second two are off, aren't the proven facts of it enough to explain why Maleificar-headed governments are worse than governments lead by non-mages?

Modifié par aaniadyen, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Everwarden]

aaniadyen wrote...

Everwarden wrote...
1. I never claimed to be a better person than him, stop putting
words in my mouth. This is a debate about game lore, so reading the
codex or wiki is fairly important, at least regarding the topic at hand.

Could have fooled me when you said "I see I'm dealing someone with zero grasp on lore."

Everwarden wrote...
2. Yes, if mages were free they would willingly fight the Qunari. The Qunari have a very bad policy when it comes to mages.

Sure, but who'd mobilize an army of mages if they were randomly scattered through the country? The Chantry had them gathered to one place where they're used for deployment in battles. I doubt that's how it would work if the mages were free to live however they pleased.

Everwarden wrote...
The only evidence that this is actually how the blights began is the word of the Chantry.

And the only evidence of it being false is the testimony of an organization who fuels their magic off of other people's pain, use magic created by demons and engage in open slave trading and work to expand it?

I'll stick with the Chantry.

It's not my fault you read "You have a poor grasp of lore on this subject." as "Hah, I'm better than you, I'm so awesome." If that's how it came across, I apologize, wasn't the intent.

Who would mobilize an army of mages? I assume the mages would organize themselves. Mages still need direction and education. I just think they can handle that themselves, without being chained by templars. I blame the templars for the incident in the tower. If you push a group of dangerous men that much*, you are just asking for one of them to go crazy on your ass.

Regarding the Tevinter Imperium's word vs. the Chantry, you're missing the hidden third option: They're both wrong.


*Someone asserted earlier in the thread that the templars haven't displayed any bullying of mages in DAO.. which I'll concede. In The Calling, however, a templar takes pleasure in scaring a ten year old mage girl. I think that this shows that at least -some- templars are prodding the caged mages into justifiable anger.

[Everwarden]

aaniadyen wrote...

Everwarden wrote...
3 is almost certainly not true in the case of the Imperium

How so?

Besides, even if those second two are off, aren't the proven facts of it enough to explain why Maleificar-headed governments are worse than governments lead by non-mages?

Because if they were turning into abominations on a regular basis they wouldn't be able to maintain leadership of the country with such an iron grip. They are evil, but one can assume they are the best magic users in the world at present and would have their own ways to teach apprentices not to be fooled by demons.

[nightcobra]

aaniadyen wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...


"you know, one good thing about a crisis is how it brings people together"
"it's like a party, we could all stand in a circle and hold hands, that would give the qunari something to think about."

I like you.

be careful, first it's "i like you" and then zap! frog time

[aaniadyen]

Everwarden wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

Everwarden wrote...
3 is almost certainly not true in the case of the Imperium

How so?

Besides, even if those second two are off, aren't the proven facts of it enough to explain why Maleificar-headed governments are worse than governments lead by non-mages?

Because if they were turning into abominations on a regular basis they wouldn't be able to maintain leadership of the country with such an iron grip. They are evil, but one can assume they are the best magic users in the world at present and would have their own ways to teach apprentices not to be fooled by demons.

I'd think it'd be more likely that considering they got their magic from demons, maybe they'd know some kind of warding techniques, maybe even making deals with the demons to only give them the weak mages, something like that. I really have no idea, but I also think it's a bit unrealistic to conclude that it's a complete non-issue simply because it's not something that affects the leaders. *shrugs* Could be wrong though.

[aaniadyen]

Everwarden wrote...
Who would mobilize an army of mages? I assume the mages would organize themselves. Mages still need direction and education. I just think they can handle that themselves, without being chained by templars. I blame the templars for the incident in the tower. If you push a group of dangerous men that much*, you are just asking for one of them to go crazy on your ass.

From the Mage's Collective quests, it seems as though they handle education on a very individual basis. So, yes. I do think they can handle that themselves as they have since the first mages were born. It doesn't necisarily make them any easier to mobilize. It would really depend on whether we assumed the mages would continue with their individual basis of education with an apprentice and a master without the presence of the Chantry.

Everwarden wrote...
Regarding the Tevinter Imperium's word vs. the Chantry, you're missing the hidden third option: They're both wrong.

I'm sure they are. Just figured I'd take the chance to explain how silly it is to base your argument for opposing the chantry on Maleificarum and the Tevinter Imperium. If there's any reason at all to agree with the chantry, Tevinter and Maleificar are the reason.

Everwarden wrote...
*Someone asserted earlier in the thread that the templars haven't displayed any bullying of mages in DAO.. which I'll concede. In The Calling, however, a templar takes pleasure in scaring a ten year old mage girl. I think that this shows that at least -some- templars are prodding the caged mages into justifiable anger.

I'm sure there's a lot of bullying done. Never said I like the Chantry, I actually side with the Apostates on this one. Just the bloodmages and demons ****ing it up for everyone.

[Akka le Vil]

ImoenBaby wrote...

Again, it doesn't follow that because some mages become abominations, all must be treated like abominations.

Actually, yes it totally may. It's called "taking risks into account". Of course it's somehow unjust for the many mages that could resist to becoming abomination.
But the opposite is even more unjust toward the many innocent victims of abomination and blood magic that would happen if the mages were left with no supervision at all - which is the point so many people completely overlook, simply because they either are very short-sighted and only see the "mages have no freedom" part, or even more often, can see themselves as mages, but not as peasant, so they consider it all from the PoV of mages alone.

Anathemic wrote...

To counter that: how many times do we see anything good come out of a nuclear bomb?

Shouldn't you call them "life bomb" ?

Anyway, you pretty much shot down your own argument here : do you think we should just stockpile nuclear bombs everywhere and let anyone take them back home ?
No, I didn't think so. Nukes are secured VERY tightly, under heavy guard, because they can be extremely destructive.
Nobody is allowed to own one (except governments) and nobody is supposed to use them.

Like blood magic. Thanks for disproving your point and proving our !

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 14 septembre 2010 - 09:07 .