AlexXIV wrote...
Well the point where I realized how 'out of line' templars are is when you recruit Anders into the Grey Wardens. You are the hero of Ferelden, the one who killed the Archdemon and is probably the greatest hero of your time but the templars still would rather kill you than letting you recruit a bloodmage, which is perfectly in your rights.
RazorrX wrote...
If you notice, in the game when a templar talks about ANY non circle mage the term is first “Apostate” and next “Malificar”. Malificar is a term for blood mages, but to the chantry ALL non circle mages are “Malificar”.
Rhayth wrote...
Apostate isn't he?
Akka le Vil wrote...
If you can't grasp this basic fact, then I can do nothing more for you.
No they can't. As has been said a demon may seduce a mage into letting them in but its still a choice.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And its not choice. A demon can forcibly posses any mage.
So then that's your justification for not granting mages equal rights.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Snap and kill a family is tragic but not a threat to the entire countryside. A single abomination can start an infestation that threatens an entire village. A single child abomination. A man who snaps and kills his own family is hardly a threat to anyone else than his family and whatever form of security force is sent to pacify him.Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Nobody know who is going to snap and kill his family either. Does that mean we should lock everyone up?
Phazor58 wrote...
As a mainly mage player, I would utterly destroy the Chantry.
Riona45 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Well the point where I realized how 'out of line' templars are is when you recruit Anders into the Grey Wardens. You are the hero of Ferelden, the one who killed the Archdemon and is probably the greatest hero of your time but the templars still would rather kill you than letting you recruit a bloodmage, which is perfectly in your rights.
Just for clarification, Anders wasn't a blood mage.
OmbradelCerberos wrote...
If the templars were that dastardly evil they wouldn't have dragged him back time and time again, but rather executed. But they didn't.
Modifié par Riona45, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:11 .
Morroian wrote...
No they can't. As has been said a demon may seduce a mage into letting them in but its still a choice.
Emphasis mine.... a demon always attempts to possess a mage when it encounters one—by force or by making some kind of deal...
Sir JK wrote...
The demons can forcefully possess people without them agreeing to it and frequently try. It's just a couple of magnitudes easier to possess someone who lets them in, so they almost always tries that first.
This is how I understood it.Sir JK wrote...
Maybe it was because he knew the Templars would notice if he did it by force (whereas if you invited him, he'd be able to hide and bide his time)?
aaniadyen wrote...
Hell, my character was a Dalish Elf, the mages have a good thousand years of persecution and displacement to catch up to him, and even he understood there was good and bad on both sides.
Riona45 wrote...
aaniadyen wrote...
Hell, my character was a Dalish Elf, the mages have a good thousand years of persecution and displacement to catch up to him, and even he understood there was good and bad on both sides.
Some elves are also mages.
Sir JK wrote...
Who knows why he didn't try
Who knows...
. Maybe he respected you for figuring him out (he is a thing of pride
after all)? Maybe time was up and he felt how the mages were drawing you
back and he wouldn't have time to do it? Maybe he simply didn't feel it
was worth the effort? Maybe it was because he knew the Templars would
notice if he did it by force (whereas if you invited him, he'd be able
to hide and bide his time)?
aaniadyen wrote...
After all, one would assume most tower-Elf mages comming from the Alienages and not the Dalish clans.
Compared to life in the alienage, I don't think it's unfair to consider life in the tower a step up. Not totally sure on that, though.
Riona45 wrote...
aaniadyen wrote...
After all, one would assume most tower-Elf mages comming from the Alienages and not the Dalish clans.
I know the game assumes that an elven mage PC came from an Alienage, but I'm sure there have been some Dalish elves taken to the circle as well, even if you couldn't play as one.Compared to life in the alienage, I don't think it's unfair to consider life in the tower a step up. Not totally sure on that, though.
It probably is a step up, at least in terms of comfort and standards of living. Also, all mages are supposed to be considered equals there--whether or not that actually happens is another matter. I played a human mage, and I noticed a dialogue option (which I did not take!) that would have allowed me to be rude to a fellow elven mage out of racism.
Modifié par aaniadyen, 16 septembre 2010 - 06:24 .
Everwarden wrote...
I cited two examples, actually. The Calling and the comic series. One example has to be taken as representative because we don't have a large pool of samples to study, here. If someone wants to discuss the personality of a desire demon we only have the one that possessed Conner and kitty as references, but I think most people would take those two examples as a fair idea of the desire demon archtype. The same with pride demons, we only have two examples and from those examples we extrapolate to come to an understanding of the typical pride demon. You're only taking exception to it in this case because I am using it in the context of disagreeing with you. I could just as easily demand you give me a dozen examples of mages turning into abominations and going on a rampage.
I can't prove it, but it's still a reasonable assumption considering the attitude displayed by the Chantry towards mages.
Well there are various other groups that self regulate outside of Chantry hands.. the Mage Collective, the Dalish, the Imperium. We have no accounts of abominations in either the Collective or among the Dalish keepers. That could simply be a lack of evidence and not evidence of abscence, but it doesn't support the notion that the templars have a monopoly on effective mage regulation.
Everwarden wrote...
Perhaps I should rephrase my position. Not all templars are evil, but there is proof that at least a portion of them are and there is no evidence that there is any system in place to make sure they can't get away with doing what they want to mages.
I don't remember a quest to hunt abominations. Though you shoot yourself in the foot by pointing this out, the Collective discovers a member of their ranks is breaking their rules and they act on it. They can't necessarily do it personally because:
1. If they did there wouldn't be a quest and you wouldn't know about it as the warden. As was pointed out earlier in the thread by someone from your camp, the only reason the templars didn't handle the situation in the tower themselves and left it to the warden is because it was important to the plot for your character to do that quest. If that reasoning stands when it's used on your side it's inconsistent to say it doesn't work in the reverse.
2. They aren't allowed a chance to self regulate, and thus don't have one secure location where they all stay. It's a loose group of drifters from what I understand. The quest shows that while they object to being chained by a religious group they don't agree with, they are willing to do what they can to abide by the laws of the land, even though they aren't required to (they're no less apostate for the effort, after all).
Sir JK wrote...
Who knows why he didn't try. Maybe he respected you for figuring him out (he is a thing of pride after all)? Maybe time was up and he felt how the mages were drawing you back and he wouldn't have time to do it? Maybe he simply didn't feel it was worth the effort? Maybe it was because he knew the Templars would notice if he did it by force (whereas if you invited him, he'd be able to hide and bide his time)?
Who knows...
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