1503 réponses à ce sujet

[Everwarden]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Loghain openly denouncing the Chantry would have make his reign short-lived. He would basicly be giving a finger to most of the world.

I don't think Loghain would have cared much, he seems the type to speak his mind and **** the consequences. He sent the Empress of Orlais (the most powerful nation in Thedas) a message that "got her knickers in a twist". The Chantry is a powerful organization, but I doubt they have the loyalty of most monarchs. Monarchs typically like power, and the Chantry is an organization within their borders that aren't under their direct command, an organization with soldiers. 

[SirShreK]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Did you count?

Missing the point again I see. The player clears the tower because he's the friggin hero with plot shield. A Mary Sue if you will. Realisticly, 4 people shouldn't have been able to clear the tower. Realisticly, all people you encounter should be more competent. But it's a game, and and such, some liberties have to be taken.

I ask you again - have you palyed the Circle tower on insane, wihout ever reloading? If you faield even once, then you failed to clear the tower, cause real life has no relods.

A very good point. That's exactly why Gregoir was waiting for reinforcements I think. More numbers => some chance of success.

[SirShreK]

MariSkep wrote...

His tactical genius stands above and beyond that of even the greatest minds.

.....

Perhaps you can outsmart him. What would you have done?

[SirShreK]

MariSkep wrote...
I wouldn't have filled the Tower with Templars in the first place. What purpose does that serve? We know they can't handle more then a couple abominations anyway and we know their only response to this is 'send in the cavalry'. So why not keep a handful of Templars at the front doors, let the mages go about their lives and when they hear screaming and bloody murder shut the door and call for the Rite of Annulment? They'd be in the exact same position only without the staggering casualties on their side.

.....

At the inside or outside of the front door?

[SirShreK]

MariSkep wrote...

Doesn't particularly matter.

Establish a security checkpoint. Doesn't need all that much man power beyond what's needed to shut the door. It's the only way out that doesn't involve a several hundred foot drop so you know that's where everything is going to go eventually. Set up the hallway leading to it with the glyphs we find warding that door in the phylactery chamber. Hunker down and wait.

So.... What about Mind control from blood mages? They can control these "guards" and convey any impression they want to the outside world.. right?

Modifié par SirShreK, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:15 .

[DMC12]

MariSkep wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

His tactical genius stands above and beyond that of even the greatest minds.

.....

Perhaps you can outsmart him. What would you have done?

I wouldn't have filled the Tower with Templars in the first place. What purpose does that serve? We know they can't handle more then a couple abominations anyway and we know their only response to this is 'send in the cavalry'. So why not keep a handful of Templars at the front doors, let the mages go about their lives and when they hear screaming and bloody murder shut the door and call for the Rite of Annulment? They'd be in the exact same position only without the staggering casualties on their side.

The incident at the tower was an ambush, not an accident. It wasn't like someone failed their harrowing and slaughtered the Templars. A bunch of blood mage insurgents sprung up, caught the Templars and good mages by surprise, then witnessed a second insurgency when Uldred wasn't able to control the litteral demon inside of him and started capturing mages to be possesed like something out of Aliens. Total chaos.

Also, like someone said above: you're the hero. They want you to feel epic. Plus it would be lame if everyone in the DA universe was able to solve their big problems without your help, neutralizing any need for side quests so that the game is super linear with only one main quest.

[SirShreK]

MariSkep wrote..
Nope. Templars are supposed to be resistant to such things (although not immune) and there are signs of posession. Remember how Gregoir examines Lily? She didn't look like she was 'in the thrall of a blood mage.' Besides, at a checkpoint you;d have one Templar approach while the other's hang back acting only if they see something wrong and you're not gonna let the mage walk all the way up to you. Whatever he needs you can communicate across the hall.

Dream on.

[SirShreK]

MariSkep wrote...

lol I will.

Let me ask you. If Blood mages are as powerful as you say, why isn't the current system rendered pointless? Isn't the Knight Commander also vulnerable to possesion with none being the wiser? Hell why didn't Uldred simply possess a couple mages and Templars and get everyone on board with his plan?

I don't really know why I am answering this and ending up being seen as an elitist jerk, but I think the current system is less available to abuse becasue of the tight security by templars and the process of secretive Harrowing which eliminates a lot of wannbe blood mages. Evil Blood mages are like Psychotic nuclear scientists. Hard to detect and extremely dangerous. But please expect no further replies from me. I am already sick of this debate.

EDIT: I mean evil nuclear scientists with know-how to make nukes i.e. for those who want to probe further.

Modifié par SirShreK, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:37 .

[Everwarden]

SirShreK wrote...

Dream on.

That isn't much of an argument...

Actually, it isn't an argument at all, it's just incredulity. Fail.

What the above poster is saying is actually quite interesting. I think we should add that to our hypothetical 'perfect tower' model. Mages rule themselves, tranquil are the regulatory body/internal affairs, templars guard the door at several checkpoints. 

Modifié par Everwarden, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:40 .

[DMC12]

MariSkep wrote...

I agree with your assessment of the situation. All the more reason they should be stationed by the giant metal door and not scattered around the Tower. It obviously takes a group of Templars to be truly effective and being in teams of 2 and 3 doesn't cut it.

Actually, I would think that the Qunari approach would be even better. That is have the mages' tongues cut out and have them chained and leashed to proper handlers. I think the purpose of having the Templars scattered around is not only to have them watch over the mages, but also intigrate the two factions in a way to make the mages more comfortable with their watchers/oppressors, so the mages won't feel too oppressed.

I judge the lore by what's presented. This line of arguing really won't lead anywhere with me.

The lore also states that an unprepared squad (4-5 men) won't stand a chance against a Pride Demon, which is what Uldred became. Wynne also came to the brink of death from fighting one abomination. There's a ton of abominations in the tower and I've soloed every single one of them on insane for ****s and giggles, and while it was hard and I had to re-load a few times, I did it and didn't need to be revived by a spirit (just needed a ton of potions). Which says to me that game play and lore are separate in the DA world. That is game play is designed around enjoyment and the lore is just the background for people who are interested, and in most cases can be separate from the actual game.

So I think the only explanation as to why a group of 4 (or less) strangers can do what the Templars can't, is that they're just that bad*** and awesome, and that they're your heroes.

[DMC12]

[quote]MariSkep wrote...

[quote]DMC12 wrote...

[quote]MariSkep wrote...

I agree with your assessment of the situation. All the more reason they should be stationed by the giant metal door and not scattered around the Tower. It obviously takes a group of Templars to be truly effective and being in teams of 2 and 3 doesn't cut it.
[/quote]

Actually, I would think that the Qunari approach would be even better. That is have the mages' tongues cut out and have them chained and leashed to proper handlers. I think the purpose of having the Templars scattered around is not only to have them watch over the mages, but also intigrate the two factions in a way to make the mages more comfortable with their watchers/oppressors, so the mages won't feel too oppressed.[/quote]

Is that what they're doing? Jesus, they're dumber than I thought.
[/quote]

Well they're blindly devoted drug addicts, who've been forced into a world of constant sexual frustration, so you can't really blame them for being dumb or rather, ignorant.

But that's what I gathered from the conversations from Wynne, like how the Templars were the first ones to treat her like she was a human being. So they're (or rather the Chantry is) basically trying to keep a tight hold on mage activities while being civilized about it.


[quote]
For the most part yes. What we know is that individuals with X training stands the same chance of victory as someone who doesn't. For me that's all that's relly necessary. And since the codex entries should be viewed with some level of skepticism (as should all things) I try to go off what happens. Jowan can over come a team of forewarned Templars and escape through the massive door and across the lake so whatever injury he sustained couldn't be that grave. Fergus can escape from Ostagar with his forces and still overcome a band of attacking darkspawn so he must be a talented commander and fighter. Stuff like that.

[/quote][/quote]

I actually went on the Tube of You just now and looked up Jowan's escape, and discovered one thing you left out: not only did he overcome three forewarned Templars, but also the First Mage (his name escapes me at the moment). Also it shows the two helmeted Templars backing away in fear of Jowan, as if he isn't the reason for all the years of training they had to go through. So yeah, I see where you're coming from on how the Templars are incompetent, as are the top mages apparently.

Still, I look at Dragon Age as I would a drama, in fact if they put more music into the conversations, it could be a melodrama. A lot of the game has heightened emotions and unrealistic situations (looking at it from a very basic point of view). So viewing the game from the simplistic point of view of pure entertainment, rather than realism, is what needs to done for the sake of being entertained.

Modifié par DMC12, 19 septembre 2010 - 03:45 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

I just cleared the Tower in the game with 2 Templars. Alone. No support. And they aren't even fully trained Templars. Following MariSkep's logic, then the Templars must be the most powerful military unit in Thedas, perhaps even the universe.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well by the time I did that my warden have had little experience with Darkspawn, but hell I'd happily declare Legion of the Dead the best of the best. They are dwarves.