1503 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Collider wrote...

Depends completely on the context. The Chantry isn't completely vile.

Maybe not, but if you think that they preach that the Maker has turned his back to all of humanity, not only the bad ones, all of them. And if you then consider that the Chantry still claims to act in His name and cover their crimes by revoking His name ... I'd be pissed if I was the Maker.

Also there are two things that are dangerous. Religious fanatics and military dictatorships. And the Chantry did a good job uniting both in one. Question for me is not whether the Chantry is all bad or half bad or mostly good despite the bad sides. Question is if it can't be replaced/reformed by/to something better. And I think it can.

[21121313]

I would prefer to fight the chantry. While i do tend to believe more in a creator type then a theory(evolution), i'm not a fan of how "the word" is spread in some cases.

*Checks to see if the chantry has an expensive horse/cart for the head of the chantry*...well, now we know where the coin really went.<_<

Seriously....i would not want to be a poor person in Denerim, yet still giving coins to the chantry only to find out that the chantry is giving then to adventurers for tasks. That donation went towards saving my soul.....

Now if the head of the chantry was a hot little vixen who could possibly be a love interest....hmm, wouldn't that throw a bone in the wash.

[Jalem001]

Well, I for one would prefer to side with the Chantry.  They may be overzealous in guarding mages, but eliminating them (Assuming the argument is Chantry vs Mages or the like) would almost certainly lead to Mages seizing political control, just as they did before.  Blood Magic slaves gooooo!

[AlexXIV]

Anathemic wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

The current Chantry is totally perverted in what Andraste originally wanted:

"Magic is meant to serve man, not to rule over him"

ZOMG WE MUST IMPRISON AND PERSECUTE ALL MAGES LOCK EM UP IN DA TOWA!!!!

No, Andraste's original message was that magic is a powerful tool, and like everything that comes with power comes great responsibility.

So it's a typical religion then? Skewing what is meant to serve their needs and desires.

Religion is humanity's way of coping with mysteries and what they don't understand. So yes the Chantry is a religion but uses their ideaology to pervert society's way of thinking that all mages are bad and Exalted Marches are of the Maker's will, too bad one of their Exalted Marches got pwned when they tried it on the Qunari

Well I think it was a success. The Qunari tried to invade Thedas and got thrown back. Even Sten considers it a defeat. Also, I find the Qun no less repressive than the Chantry. Can't we have a religion that doesn't kill everyone who disagrees?

[ejoslin]

Society is a danger to mages as well; the circle tower also protects mages. It's quite common for villagers to kill mages -- Wynne speculated that for every mage who is brought to the tower, another is killed. Mages really are susceptible to demon possession as well; you see it happen twice in a relatively short period of time, how much damage even 1 abomination can cause.

Really, the Chantry, like any other major ruling power, has both its good and bad side. The Chantry educates the populace, to the point where literacy is assumed of all people. It shelters anyone who asks -- feeding and housing everyone who requests it. The Chantry also hires people for small jobs, even if it doesn't benefit them directly. They really do take care of the local populace.

There is the downside to the Chantry. Using Lyrium to control the templars is abhorrent, though not all seem to be affected. Imprisoning mages is very draconian and does lead to discontent which in turn makes the mages more dangerous as there's more reason to turn to forbidden magics/demon dealing to help change the situation.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 septembre 2010 - 10:57 .

[raider969]

Me personally, I would do everything in my power as Hawke to prevent the chantry from collapsing. If they do fall, I hope that a new order, similar to the templars, will be formed in their place because quite frankly, the mages are getting out of hand. Gees I can't wait to purge the land of the wicked in my first playthrough. I spare no women or children. Long live the templars!

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

They contained them for the moment. We don't know what would have happend if the Warden had not showed up to solve the situation. I still don't see why the mages need templars to guard them, when the mages could do it themselves. But it doesn't even matter since whether they failed or not, their actions are morally questionable. And you can't have someone morally questionable playing god.

Because you want to entrust a sentiant tank that can turn into a uncontrolable nuke to police over another sentient tank that can turn into a nuke?

Would oyu allow people to own and drive fully armed tanks around the town? Would you ever feel safe? How about if those tanks were powered by nuclear reactors? You'd be runnignaround, demanding protection and their removal from the street long before the first town turned into a crater.

The people in Thedas are reacting sensibly and naturally to the mage issue.

[jsachun]

Don't forget It was Andraste that freed Freledan from the Magisters of Tevinter.



I say help, unless your a rogue mage.

[nightcobra]

more than the magic being feared, it's more about demons possessing them that is the problem,

we know that the veil can be torn or reinforced, but how about if it's done on a mass escale? that kind of action would either torn the veil completely fusing the two realms, or separate them for good if reinforced. only old gods, the maker, and maybe flemeth would be capable of such an action.

[Lord Gremlin]

First I want to kill Flemeth, and then destroy Chantry.

[nhsk]

Depends, if fighting the chantry means "mwahahahahaha I'm stupid evil incarnate" I'll probably help them.

[OmbradelCerberos]

I'll probably help the Chantry, if I am forced to make a choice, simply because I am not willing to fight/destroy them.

[FDrage]

Sharn01 wrote...

Regardless of whether or not its genocide.  Initiating wars against anyone who does not follow your religious belief to subjigate them under your rule and force them to worship as you do, is harmful, which you said the chantry isnt.

So it is far better fopr the Tevinter imperium to initiate war and subjugate everyone letting the mages "be worshiped" who in turn worship dargons? Or have the Orleasions conquere Ferelden for pure stratgic or economic reasons? I don't see any difference in that compared to what the Chantry did ... as the end result is the same more or less. Or is it only because teh Chantry is a "relegiuous" order that makes itr bad compared to a "magic" (pseudo non-religious) order or a economic/strategic order ?

[jalynntownsend]

fight and kill almost all chantry people except beautiful leliana

[vania z]

Fight chantry and qunari:)

[Sharn01]

FDrage wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Regardless of whether or not its genocide.  Initiating wars against anyone who does not follow your religious belief to subjigate them under your rule and force them to worship as you do, is harmful, which you said the chantry isnt.

So it is far better fopr the Tevinter imperium to initiate war and subjugate everyone letting the mages "be worshiped" who in turn worship dargons? Or have the Orleasions conquere Ferelden for pure stratgic or economic reasons? I don't see any difference in that compared to what the Chantry did ... as the end result is the same more or less. Or is it only because teh Chantry is a "relegiuous" order that makes itr bad compared to a "magic" (pseudo non-religious) order or a economic/strategic order ?

The chantry dominates Fereldan and Orlais, but they both have their own government, its just under the chantrys thumb.  I do not understand why you feel it has to be one extreme or another, yes the Tevinter emperium was corrupt, it was run by mages and many of them used blood magic, saying all mages and all mages who use blood magic are exactly like them is as rediculous of a concept as saying that the chantry's leaders are corrupt and evil, so anyone in the chantry or associated with the chantry is corrupt and evil.

It is also not just a question of mages either, the chantry has started wars when governments and people do not agree to bow down to their beliefs, and still attempt to do so in the epilogue of DA.  They amass armies led by their templars and reinforced by the nations that are already under the control to kill anyone who stands in their way and force their religion and a new government under their control in the area. 

Its odd how people point at the actions of a few or even one person and condemn everyone associated with them when they play games like DA.  I have seen people condemn all the dailish, solely on the actions of Zathrian, and mages solely on the actions of a few mages.  It seems the reason they do so is not because these groups justify their contempt, but since they do not associate themselves with that group they see them as outsiders, and judge the entire group on the actions of a few within it. 

They do not however judge groups they can identify with based on the actions of a few individuals within it,  like I said, many posters feel pleased with themselves to wipe out the entire dailish race based on the actions of Zathrian, but I have never once seen a poster justify the extinction of the entire human race based on the actions of Howe or Loghain. 

[Everwarden]

jsachun wrote...

Don't forget It was Andraste that freed Freledan from the Magisters of Tevinter.

I say help, unless your a rogue mage.

The Chanty doesn't equal Andraste. The Chantry is a largely corrupt organization that pretends to preach what Andraste taught, but spin her words into things they really don't mean. For example, "Magic should serve man and not rule over him" somehow means that blood magic is forbidden, and mages must be imprisoned or killed.

A good parallel for how it happens in the real world.

[connorthedragonslayer]

Fight them.

[Chuvvy]

Fight. The chantery is the DA equivalent of the Catholic church. If I could just go in and cut out the corrupted bull**** I'd do that instead.

[Loc'n'lol]

Entirely depends how it is presented. If possible, improve the chantry, if it's more binary, probably preserve it.

[jsachun]

Everwarden wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Don't forget It was Andraste that freed Freledan from the Magisters of Tevinter.

I say help, unless your a rogue mage.

The Chanty doesn't equal Andraste. The Chantry is a largely corrupt organization that pretends to preach what Andraste taught, but spin her words into things they really don't mean. For example, "Magic should serve man and not rule over him" somehow means that blood magic is forbidden, and mages must be imprisoned or killed.

A good parallel for how it happens in the real world.

Well,  it's like saying Murder is outlawed, but fight the law because Murder is outlawed. Blood Magic is forbidden with the exception of it being used in the Grey Warden Camp. Magic is forbidden outside the Mage's circle,  because it can be practiced without the realisation of it's consequences. Chantry is not corrupt & neither is the Catholic Church. Who is corrupt are the people or indivduals who use it's name or banner for their own selfish benefit. 

Modifié par jsachun, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:59 .

[Lumikki]

Why it's fight or help? Chantry is just doing job what is necassarity.

If there would not be Chantry all mages would live under fear. Not fear of Chantry, but fear of other people in the world, because when someone has so much "power" it cause fear in others, what cause violences behavior agaist mage. When Chantry guarantee that all mage who walks free in city streets are "tested" and accepted as having control and behavior what does not provide threat agaist people, people accept these mages without major fear.

Freedom isn't allways without price, nor is having superior "power".

Is Bloodmagic bad? It's sayed it corruct people, but what if someone know how to use it right. That's the question what mage look. But the question what mage doesn't look, is that because it's forbidden, it's test of nature. Meaning if you still go and try bloodmagic when it's forbidden, you personality has problems and you are risk to all people. So, it's not just using bloodmagic is bad in Chantries eyes, but those mages could not obey rules. So, they are risk even without bloodmagic, because they personality is build seek forbidden stuff and power. 

Modifié par Lumikki, 13 septembre 2010 - 02:27 .

[Loc'n'lol]

Why all the talk about the mages, anyway ? That's only a part of the templars duty, who are only a branch of the chantry.