1503 réponses à ce sujet

[lobi]

not so much rampant as the norm. Also i think Tevinters only see anyone wanting to control Them personally as bad, anyone else is fair game. Slaves make more than they cost to keep and when they can no longer work use em for trips to fade.

[General Malor]

I wouldn't go to for an all out war but I would like to make changes to the Chantry. I mean...it's actually right still. What with Andrastae being real. So I guess my problem isn't so much the Chantry but with the Templars. If there was a way to change the Templars from jailers of the mages to bodyguards for them I would go for that. Just imagine being a mage and walking out in the world with your own personal guardian to protect you from the simple minded fools that you can encounter. Kinda have them work to dissuade and stop hostilities before they can start.

[Daerog]

lobi wrote...

Tevinters like money, lyrium is obtained by dwarves, dwarves like money a lot, blood magic requires no money. any questions?

Ya, how do you know that all Tevinters like money? If anything, as a culture, the magisters fought for power, not wealth. Who says they pay for the lyrium? They could have a deal with Kal-Sharok or certain smuggling groups. Why bother with making deals with the dwarves in the past (as in before Andraste) for lyrium and golems when they had blood magic anyway?

Besides, it is said that lyrium is more precious and valuable than diamonds to the Tevinters. From the lyrium codex: Despite its dangers, lyrium is the single most valuable mineral currently known. In the Tevinter Imperium, it has been known to command a higher price than diamond.

So, the Tevinters like money, and lyrium is prized more than diamond. I would also assume that not all Tevinters are heartless bastards, so when some wish to go into the Fade, lyrium would be preffered over killing one of the servants/slaves.

[lobi]

Templars are trained to be religious fanatics, some are resistant, but the training is effective. As much as Alistair complains he always goes with magic is bad side of discussion. Andrastae may well have been blood mage also, but an ethical one. Who else thought that the ashes temple reeked of blood magic?

[Daerog]

lobi wrote...

Templars are trained to be religious fanatics, some are resistant, but the training is effective. As much as Alistair complains he always goes with magic is bad side of discussion. Andrastae may well have been blood mage also, but an ethical one. Who else thought that the ashes temple reeked of blood magic?

I don't remember anyone saying that it "reeked of blood magic." What was claimed by Oghren was that there is a ton of lyrium in the temple.

[lobi]

Blood magic in and of itself is not evil, like all power it depends on person who weilds it. Lyrium may well be used in certain circumstance but only as an extreme, fereldons would use morphiene for hangover cure.

[lobi]

The Tevinter temples would have enchantments woven through which would explain lyrium. but the living guardian seemed to be trying to get doubt to form in everyones mind as a 'in' only the strong willed tell him go away. The pendent seems to contain a memory pulled from the wardens mind if he has doubt he gets pendent, mine got through and slew guardian which exposed his lies. so this attack on will seems to be a hint toward blood magic that and every tevinter mage in game seemed blood mage.

[lobi]

I also thought that the temple was a prison built to restrain the essence of Andrastae (a powerful charasmitic blood mage), and that it was some how a tool of the early chantry to dominate minds a generate folowers, anyone near it became some type of fanatic which strong personalities guided down certain paths. Kind of a charisma battery.

[Riona45]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
As for the ruler of Fereldan saying the mages have earened their right to govern themselves, I just found that to be completely stupid, personally. I don't see how they did. There is a revolt, and then the mage Warden comes in to clean up. How does that mean they earned it? A senior enchanter led the revolt, someone who is part of running the Circle, and then someone who doesn't help run the Circle comes in to clean up. So, how did the Circle earn it?

The mage boon is granted not because of what happened at the Circle, but because of the heroic deeds of the mage Warden.  After all it is an origin-specific boon.

You can argue "That's stupid, etc.!"  but that's beside the point.  Personally I think asking for a Grey Warden monument is kind of pointless when the Wardens are already receiving a whole arling (and as arl you'd probably have the power to just put a monument up yourself).

Modifié par Riona45, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:25 .

[Riona45]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Well, since the Chantry is the founder of the Circles it is theirs decisision wether or not they want to let the mages go, not some monarch in some insignificant country. The Chantry is in its full rights to deny the monarch in this case. The monarch of Ferelden asked a request of the Chantry (not an order) and the Chantry denied the request.

You guys keep forgetting to mention that the conversation didn't end there.

Modifié par Riona45, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:14 .

[Daerog]

Riona45 wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
As for the ruler of Fereldan saying the mages have earened their right to govern themselves, I just found that to be completely stupid, personally. I don't see how they did. There is a revolt, and then the mage Warden comes in to clean up. How does that mean they earned it? A senior enchanter led the revolt, someone who is part of running the Circle, and then someone who doesn't help run the Circle comes in to clean up. So, how did the Circle earn it?

Uh, they weren't talking about the debacle at the Circle, they were talking about the heroic deeds of the mage Warden.  I thought that was pretty obvious.

Sure the Warden has earned a boon and can ask for whatever s/he wants, I just didn't see why the ruler said the mages/Circle earned it. They helped in the Blight, sure, but mages/Circles have in every Blight since the Circle was formed.

[Riona45]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Sure the Warden has earned a boon and can ask for whatever s/he wants, I just didn't see why the ruler said the mages/Circle earned it. They helped in the Blight, sure, but mages/Circles have in every Blight since the Circle was formed.

Well like I said, only a mage PC can ask for this particular boon.  In this case, it was a mage who played the most important role in stopping the Blight.  Whether you think the mages of Ferelden deserve something just because the hero happened to be a mage (and was asking for a boon specifically to benefit them) is a matter of opinion.

Modifié par Riona45, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[Daerog]

Riona45 wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Sure the Warden has earned a boon and can ask for whatever s/he wants, I just didn't see why the ruler said the mages/Circle earned it. They helped in the Blight, sure, but mages/Circles have in every Blight since the Circle was formed.

Well like I said, only a mage PC can ask for this particular boon.  In this case, it was a mage who played the most important role in stopping the Blight.  Whether you think the mages of Ferelden deserve something just because the hero happened to be a mage (and was asking for a boon specifically to benefit them) is a matter of opinion.

Very true. I did say it was just my opinion at the end of my post as well.

[Daerog]

filaminstrel wrote...

I wonder if, when you finally meet Cassandra (which I assume will happen), if you play as a Chantry-supporting Hawke, Cassandra will be all like "<3", but if you play antagonistically toward the Chantry, Cassandra will be all like ">:[".

And if you play a blood mage who is all like "Ya, man, the Chantry is, like, totally cool" Cassandra will be like "DEATH TO THE FIEND!"

Being an apostate mage will be fun as far as I can tell.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:39 .

[Riona45]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Very true. I did say it was just my opinion at the end of my post as well.

I know.  I posted mainly to underline the point about the boon in question being specifically for a mage PC, because your post didn't really address that.  You mentioned that mages have helped in every Blight--true, but in the case of this Blight, the mage PC didn't just help, she played the pivotal role.  She was the one who made it possible to stop the Blight in such a short period of time.

PS:  The mage boon isn't the only case in which the Warden can ask to aid "their kind"--several other boons aim to do that as well.

Modifié par Riona45, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:41 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

tool_bot wrote...

Weren't you and Lotion arguing we should tolerate bad things happening so long as it's within a certain acceptable range? Why doesn't that apply here?

Depends...we've seen how much damage a single, untrained CHILD mage (who's powers are still weak) can do. Hunderds of dead.
How many mages there are in Ferelden?

Lock up a hunderd mages or risk the deaths of thousands on a daily basis?
IMHO, not worth the risk.

And we already know there are methods more effective then what the Circle teaches to prevent possession. (We see how easily Morrigan is able to brush aside spirits.) While I understand we can't assume the Dalish have these, they are very successful at preserving their mages and they seem to surpass anything Circle Mages can do.

No, we don't. You assume too much. Jsut because Morrigan is not possesed, doens't mean she has some super-special methods to prevent possesion. After all, the Warden is a circle mage, and he doesn't get posesed either.
Also, we know way too little about the Dalish and how they deal with mages.

Theft of Chantry property? No. It would be undermining their control and authority in an area they feel the Maker has given them complete control. And it would also be just another excuse to force a monarch in line.

Pharse it as you wish, it doesn't change what it is. The Cirlces are under Chatnry control and they run them. Ergo, they belong to the Chatnry.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Technically, everyone in Thedas can become possessed (with the exception of the dwarves). It's merely that only mages can turn into abominations if possessed. On that line of reasoning, every person in Thedas is a potential danger to the other, because a demon can possess them. They can even inhabit dead bodies.

Non-mages are far less likely to be possesed (IIRC, most likely to happen in places where the veil has been torn), and the possesion doesn't result in the abominations.

I think tool_bot meant Morrigan's ability to discern that she was in the Fade as an apostate while Wynne wasn't able to despite all her training as a Circle mage. The existance of the many Dalish clans under the guidance of mages and the co-existance of mages with non-mages among the Disciples, who may have been around for at least 900 years, illustrates that the templars and the Chantry are unnecessary.

Ecept that many other Circle mages resist possesion too (mage warden among them), and that we readlly don't know has been happening ion hte last 900 years with the Dalish and  Disciples. For all we know, they could just let their abominations run loose in the countryside and let the templars take care of them.

So's hiding behind a giant metal door and waiting for an army to show up to slaughter everything that breathes.

Actualyl that IS a effective way of conatainment. did any of the many abominations in the tower escape to harm peopel outside? No.
Can the collective boast the same? No.

Their method is "put a wanted add". How can that be effective in any way?
a) They have no guarantee anyone will answer the add.
They don't even know WHEN the add will be answered..if at all. And time is of the essence.
c) No containment - And given that they are spread out so far, by the time one of them becomes and abomination, getting the word around, getting the contract out, finding someone, getting to the location - by that time the abomination will probably be long gone. Distance and travel time matter!

Effective? Yeah right.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Mages live in fear at the Circle. That was the reason behind the revolt, to toss out the templars and gain freedom for the Circle of Ferelden. The inability of the templars to handle it, while a Mage Warden could clean up the mess that Greagoir couldn't, makes it more clear that mages can govern themselves: the ruler of Ferelden admits as much in the royal ceremony at the end of DA:O.

And the incident wouldn't have happened if mages were governing themselves - despite hundreds of years of templars culling the Circles, mages will always fight for freedom, it's universal. The fact that we're debating this is a testament to the fact that there will always be people who believe that mages should be given their freedom, and no debate is ever going to change that.

The oppinion of the ruler of Ferelden is irrelevant.

Mages governing the circle is a BAD idea for many reasons - but the chief one is that the people one the top can turn into abominations just as easily as any other mage. Abominations runing the Circle of Magi? Yes, great idea.

And yes, some people will never be happy. Some peopel will always want more. So?
Some things wil lalways happen. There will always be people desperate or twisted enough to commit crimes. Should we abolish the police then?

[ShrinkingFish]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Depends...we've seen how much damage a single, untrained CHILD mage (who's powers are still weak) can do. Hunderds of dead.
How many mages there are in Ferelden?

Lock up a hunderd mages or risk the deaths of thousands on a daily basis?
IMHO, not worth the risk.

Interestingly enough, abominations have been a threat to mages and the general public for as long as mages and demons have existed, right? And yet the Templars and the Chantry's control and regulation of mages has only been in affect for a few hundred years.

Before then abominations were still a threat, surely, but were controlled enough to never be a huge problem, perhaps just as contained as they are currently by the Templars and the Circle. And this control was maintained even during a time when the mages held the reigns, many of whom were actually blood mages.

We have heard no word if the Chantry's method actually improved the level of public safety from abomination attacks (and if we have then please let me know as I have overlooked it) or if they just found another method of control that was largely in tandum with their political agenda. That agenda being taking the political power out of the hands of mages and putting it into the hands of the priesthood.

The Chantry's harsh control and policing over and of mages in largely a political movement, the implied inherit "evil" of blood magic being of key interest to them. Blood mages largely being as hated and feared by the followers of Andraste as abominations are due to the Chantry's propeganda and religious doctrine against them. But a blood mage is only as evil as the individual who practices it. And I believe that the reason many "evil" souls are drawn to it is precisely because the Chantry forbids its practice, therefore forcing its practitioners underground, making it the soul dominion of outlaws and criminals. This in addition to the fact that blood magic grants great power and power attracts the corruptable above all others.

Jowan is a good example of this. Definitely a blood mage, definitely a malificar, but certainly not evil in any sense. His greatest sin was allowing himself to be a pawn to others with ill intentions.

No, we don't. You assume too much. Jsut because Morrigan is not possesed, doens't mean she has some super-special methods to prevent possesion. After all, the Warden is a circle mage, and he doesn't get posesed either.
Also, we know way too little about the Dalish and how they deal with mages.

We do know, however, that methods outside the Chantry's methods to prevent possession do exist and are about as effective.

It seems that the most likely individuals to become possessed are the young and the untrained. Connor being both of these things on top of being desperate to help his father by any means necessary. Another case of demonic possession is seen in quests from the Mage's Collective line, in which a young apprentice of an Apostate mage became possessed through his own inexperience.

However there are an abundance of trained and grown mages living outside the circle who never become possessed and resist it just as deftly as any Circle trained mage. Methods of training and trials may be different among "hedge" mages, as many of them are called, than that of the Harrowing but really all any of these are are tests to see if the individual is strong enough to resist temptation and demonic guile.

Circle mages aren't given any sort of immunity to possession any more than a hedge mage is. All that can be done is the mage can be trained in mental fortitude in an attempts to make their possession less likely. Essentially boiling down to how strong willed a mage is and if a demon manages to approach them at a moment of weakness, like the pride demon who managed to possess Uldred.

The only thing that the Circle offers in this respect is security. If a mage becomes possessed then they can be dealt with without endangering anyone outside the Circle as long as the possession takes place within its walls. A good question to ask would be, what if the pride demon had finally broken down Uldred's defenses while he was still at Ostagar and not after he returned to the Circle? Then the Templar's security would all be for naught.

Point being, we have no idea what securities hedge mages practice to attempt to ensure abominations do not occur and, if they do, what steps are taken to prevent any possible damage. But they must employ some form of security as there are plenty of mages living outside the Circle and yet very few cases of possession when compared to the numbers of possessions present within the Circle.

Plus, obviously hedge mages would be very keen to control the abomination problem, as possession is a very large threat to their personal well being, but also because any incidents that result in the deaths of innocents would only worsen their chances of living as they wish to. These mages are most interested in living free from Circle controls and out of sight of Templar hunters. Abominations are kind of a huge red flag that greatly impede on both of these key interests.

Anyways, I do not believe, from what I have seen of the Dragon Age universe, that the Chantry's methods of mage control are absolutely necessary but that they are just one of many methods of achieving the same ends. Perhaps the most effective, perhaps not. We have no concrete numbers to base any claims on in either case.

Pharse it as you wish, it doesn't change what it is. The Cirlces are under Chatnry control and they run them. Ergo, they belong to the Chatnry.

But there is a question of the rights of the Chantry when operating within a sovereign nation. As the Chantry is not a sovereign country but an organized religion without any direct political power (though plenty of indirect power) it has yet to be seen exactly what the extent of their power is when dealing with various monarchies. The Chantry owns and operates land at the will of the country in which the land is situated, therefore they must operate under the law of the land. And, like the Grey Wardens before them, if ordered to evacuate the country by the monarchy they would likely have to obey.

This of course would cause great contention between whatever country forced them out and the Chantry as a whole. But it can be done. A country could indeed force out the Templars and the Chantry and establish their own official Chantry of Andraste, a branch of the religion that they controlled and regulated. Much like the Tevinter Imperium established their own official Chantry if you want an in game example and much like the Church of England pulled away from Catholicism if you want a real world example.

In any case, the supreme control over the land in which the Chantry operates lies with the monarchy within who's borders that land falls. The Chantry can influence those monarchies and attempt to control them, and in most cases succeed, but if put to the test then the Chantry's rights crumble until the final trump card is played and the Chantry orders an Exalted March against the offending country. However, the political realities of an Exalted March are tricky ones and the Chantry can not just order one whenever it sees fit but when all of their followers agree. And therefore the threat of an Exalted March is not necessarily going to sway the lords in question depending on the circumstances.

Of course... these are all hypotheticals. I am certainly not saying that such would happen in Fereldan. Just that under the right circumstances... they could.

[Behindyounow]

It depends. I'd like to destroy the chantry, but I'd rather have the Imperial chantry take over. They have the right ideas.

[ShrinkingFish]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The oppinion of the ruler of Ferelden is irrelevant.

Mages governing the circle is a BAD idea for many reasons - but the chief one is that the people one the top can turn into abominations just as easily as any other mage. Abominations runing the Circle of Magi? Yes, great idea.

And yes, some people will never be happy. Some peopel will always want more. So?
Some things wil lalways happen. There will always be people desperate or twisted enough to commit crimes. Should we abolish the police then?

The opinion of the ruler of Ferelden is not irrelevant. The Chantry does not hold supreme authority. Examples in my previous response.

Mages governing the circle is not necessarily a bad idea. The truth is top mages are not as likely to be possessed as lesser mages as they are more practiced, capable and aware of the risks and therefore have a greater ability to avoid the dangers.

In fact there is a working example of this in the Tevinter Imperium. The Chantry is run by mages, the Circles are policed by mages and they have about as much trouble with abominations as the Templars do elsewhere. So it can be done. It just puts the power back into the hands of mages and that is against Chantry dogma.

The issue is simply not as black and white as the Chantry makes it out to be. There are persisting shades of grey.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Interestingly enough, abominations have been a threat to mages and the general public for as long as mages and demons have existed, right? And yet the Templars and the Chantry's control and regulation of mages has only been in affect for a few hundred years.

Before then abominations were still a threat, surely, but were controlled enough to never be a huge problem, perhaps just as contained as they are currently by the Templars and the Circle. And this control was maintained even during a time when the mages held the reigns, many of whom were actually blood mages.

There were other methods before. IIRC, Templars existed before the Chantry. Other nations/races have their own solutions (the Qunari for example). Tevinter also has oversight over their mages.

The Chantry's harsh control and policing over and of mages in largely a political movement, the implied inherit "evil" of blood magic being of key interest to them. Blood mages largely being as hated and feared by the followers of Andraste as abominations are due to the Chantry's propeganda and religious doctrine against them. But a blood mage is only as evil as the individual who practices it. And I believe that the reason many "evil" souls are drawn to it is precisely because the Chantry forbids its practice, therefore forcing its practitioners underground, making it the soul dominion of outlaws and criminals. This in addition to the fact that blood magic grants great power and power attracts the corruptable above all others.

Jowan is a good example of this. Definitely a blood mage, definitely a malificar, but certainly not evil in any sense. His greatest sin was allowing himself to be a pawn to others with ill intentions.

Blood magic is outlawed because of it's inherent danger. Draining the life force of others to fuel spells, mind control - it's the equalent of a modern day nuke. It has to be forbidden, because no one can be trusted with it.
Jowan was just utterly stupid to try blood magic in the first place.

We do know, however, that methods outside the Chantry's methods to prevent possession do exist and are about as effective.

We do? Where?
There are no known methods of totaly preventing possesion...other than Tranquilisation.

The only thing that the Circle offers in this respect is security. If a mage becomes possessed then they can be dealt with without endangering anyone outside the Circle as long as the possession takes place within its walls. A good question to ask would be, what if the pride demon had finally broken down Uldred's defenses while he was still at Ostagar and not after he returned to the Circle? Then the Templar's security would all be for naught.

IIRC, templars acompanied mages to Ostagar. And they keep tabs on Circle mages. IF Uldred became an abomination at Ostagar(bad move, given that there's a whole army to take him down there), they could react quickly

Point being, we have no idea what securities hedge mages practice to attempt to ensure abominations do not occur and, if they do, what steps are taken to prevent any possible damage. But they must employ some form of security as there are plenty of mages living outside the Circle and yet very few cases of possession when compared to the numbers of possessions present within the Circle.

THAT WE KNOW OFF.
We know templars regulary go outside ofhte tower to hunt blood mages and abominations.
I don't think hedge mages really have any methods to prevent any possible damage....at least not any effective methods. They're far too dispersed and disorganized for that.

But there is a question of the rights of the Chantry when operating within a sovereign nation. As the Chantry is not a sovereign country but an organized religion without any direct political power (though plenty of indirect power) it has yet to be seen exactly what the extent of their power is when dealing with various monarchies. The Chantry owns and operates land at the will of the country in which the land is situated, therefore they must operate under the law of the land. And, like the Grey Wardens before them, if ordered to evacuate the country by the monarchy they would likely have to obey.

Possible..it could also be that the Circles are considered Chantry territory (like an embassy).


++++++

Oh, an interesting quote from Davod Gaider:

David Gaider wrote...

I think there's a bit of a bias against organized religion in these
parts (bad organized religion! bad!) which leads some to look on
anything the Chantry does with suspicion. No doubt it doesn't help that
the Chantry is a big organization with political power, and thus given
to corruption much like in our own Middle Ages. The fact that it's
mostly benevolent in its nature and sees what it does as necessary if
unfortunate is compared to the fact that they are taking freedom away from those poor mages-- and anything that deprives freedom is also automatically bad (we're a comfy, democratic lot here on the internet, I suppose).

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 30 septembre 2010 - 08:39 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

There were other methods before. IIRC, Templars existed before the Chantry. Other nations/races have their own solutions (the Qunari for example). Tevinter also has oversight over their mages.

Yes, I do believe the Templars were actually called the "Inquisition" before the Orelsian Chantry reorganized them and formed the Templars.

But even before that, before Andraste even, there were successful controls of abominations.

Blood magic is outlawed because of it's inherent danger. Draining the life force of others to fuel spells, mind control - it's the equalent of a modern day nuke. It has to be forbidden, because no one can be trusted with it.
Jowan was just utterly stupid to try blood magic in the first place.

I think blood magic is outlawed for more reasons than just its inheret danger. Yes, abuses follow easily along with Blood Magic, but they do not follow by necessity. And some do appear to be trustworthy in their use of Blood Magic. Jowan being an example if he is freed from Arl Eamon's estate.

And Jowan's "stupidity" is also questionable. I think he absolutely did what was right by him. It just didn't turn out as he had hoped. And depending on the results he actually ends up pretty alright due to his choices, so it may even be considered an intelligent choice for him.

We do know, however, that methods outside the Chantry's methods to prevent possession do exist and are about as effective.

We do? Where?
There are no known methods of totaly preventing possesion...other than Tranquilisation.

Never said totally. I said about as effective as the Chantry's and the Templar's methods, meaning the Harrowing and the Circle. Please try to avoid putting words in my mouth.

IIRC, templars acompanied mages to Ostagar. And they keep tabs on Circle mages. IF Uldred became an abomination at Ostagar(bad move, given that there's a whole army to take him down there), they could react quickly

As the Templars at the Circle were incapable of dealing with Uldred and were mostly mind controlled en masse and eventually forced to lock him and the rest of them inside the Circle walls I doubt very much that the small (when compared to Templar forces at the Circle) contingent of Templars sent to accompany Uldred and the mages to Ostagar would have had any sort of ability to slay him. And the likelyhood of the entire army mobilizing quickly enough to deal with him would also be unlikely, especially since he retained the ability to mind control masses of people at once. Likely giving him more than enough cover to escape into the world.

But again... we don't know for sure. It's all hypotheticals.

Point being, we have no idea what securities hedge mages practice to attempt to ensure abominations do not occur and, if they do, what steps are taken to prevent any possible damage. But they must employ some form of security as there are plenty of mages living outside the Circle and yet very few cases of possession when compared to the numbers of possessions present within the Circle.

THAT WE KNOW OFF.
We know templars regulary go outside ofhte tower to hunt blood mages and abominations.
I don't think hedge mages really have any methods to prevent any possible damage....at least not any effective methods. They're far too dispersed and disorganized for that.

That we know of, indeed. If mages become possessed and turn into abominations and no one ever hears about them... then are they a problem?

And we have no idea how organized or unorganized hedge mages could be or are as we have seen little evidence of their practices. Perhaps they are capable of rigid controls and securities. Perhaps they are organized. Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't there, it just means they're doing their job and remaining invisible. Abominations don't really help people remain unseen and it would bequeath an organization intent on secrecy to have methods of dealing with such problems. It makes sense to me that these methods would exist, especially since the damages of possessed mages outside the Circle are so relatively minimal compared to the number of mages existing outside the Circle.

Again, we don't really know for sure. All I am suggesting is that it is entirely possible and incredibly likely that the Chantry does not have the only method of dealing with abominations and possession.

Possible..it could also be that the Circles are considered Chantry territory (like an embassy).

Could be. But as the Chantry is not a sovereign power this may not be the case. And embassy's also exist at the behest of the country within which the embassy lies. The rights of embassy's are held by the political power of the country that backs them. If a country is unable to back up the rights of their embassy then they have no rights to the land it is built on. So even if it is considered Chantry territory in that fashion it still is not free from the scrutinies of the ruling monarchy.

But we don't know if that is even the case or not. So this is still entirely in hypotheticals.

++++++

Oh, an interesting quote from Davod Gaider:

David Gaider wrote...

I think there's a bit of a bias against organized religion in these
parts (bad organized religion! bad!) which leads some to look on
anything the Chantry does with suspicion. No doubt it doesn't help that
the Chantry is a big organization with political power, and thus given
to corruption much like in our own Middle Ages. The fact that it's
mostly benevolent in its nature and sees what it does as necessary if
unfortunate is compared to the fact that they are taking freedom away from those poor mages-- and anything that deprives freedom is also automatically bad (we're a comfy, democratic lot here on the internet, I suppose).

I never suggested that the Chantry is bad, what they do is bad, or that they are wrong in what they do in any regard. I am merely suggesting that it is very possible that their methods are not the only methods and should not be treated as such. There are always alternatives. And who is to say which one works best? After all, necessary evils are still evils.

Honestly, I think the Qunari handle mages the best out of anybody.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 30 septembre 2010 - 09:05 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uldred was possessed within the tower when he tried to summon demons to help him fight the council. A Pride Demon was apparently powerful enough to force the possession through (At least from Nial's description the possession didn't sound voluntary).