114 réponses à ce sujet

[Ross42899]

You're kidding?Right?

ME is supposed to be an ACTION RPG and not a ****** shooter like 100 of other games. That's why ME is unique and better than a simple shooter.
The combat system of ME2 is almost perfect so just don't touch it for ME3, just improve the RPG aspects (larger skill trees, better & larger inventory, some more non- combat-based side missions)

Modifié par Ross42899, 13 septembre 2010 - 04:25 .

[upsettingshorts]

Ross42899 wrote...

You're kidding?Right?

ME is supposed to be an ACTION RPG and not a ****** shooter like 100 of other games. That's why ME is unique and better than a simple shooter.
The combat system of ME2 is almost perfect so just it for ME3, just improve the RPG aspects (larger skill trees, better & larger inventory, some more non- combat-based side missions)

And the geocentrists make their appearance.

It's not a zero-sum thing, people.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 septembre 2010 - 04:30 .

[PsyrenY]

spernus wrote...

The problem is that it's way too soon for Bioware.They aren't there yet and won't be for ME 3,they are lacking years behind Epic games or Crytek when it come to shooter mechanics.This is akind to expect Crytek or Epic games to create a rpg when they have no experience and can't write themselves out of a paper bag in their shooters.

You might be right, but consider this: they're already using the same game engine that GoW is. How hard would it be to simply add on the new abilities? It's a lot easier to incorporate something that has already been created than it is to make it from scratch.

spernus wrote...
Remember that in january 2010,Bioware released a game where you can properly aim while firing a gun.Mass effect 2 isn't on par with the first Gears of War (a game released in 2006) in term of shooter mechanics,so don't expect miracle for the third game.

I disagree, I think ME2 can easily stand toe-to-toe with GoW1. There is almost as much variety gun-wise, and much deeper tactics via the Rock-Paper-Scissors power-defense system. Offensively, ME's gunplay is superiors: all Gears had was "harder enemy = more bullets" and "active reloading" as far as offensive tactics, and ME is already past that. I'm not proposing either of these. It's defense where Gears beats ME: Blind fire, mobile cover, laying traps, human shields, rolling/diving - these are all defensive maneuvers.

[theelementslayer]

I think there are a few ways to improve the shooter elements.

Of course AI but thats hard to ever get done well. Its nearly impossible to make something act human and extremely smart. AI is very difficult to program.

As for one that will help both RPG fans, and shooter fans is the modular "weapon parts". Say a holographic sight on the weapon will increase weapon accuracy and decrease spread. Or an ACOG/whatever is equvilent will increase the accuracy "range".

Different ammo types could be done the way crysis did them, just a quick little change in the 'magazine'. Have a few types and be able to change them like in ME2. Laser sights, and flashlights or grips on the front. Say you have a dark room (I would love this in ME, kinda like a horror thing ala FEAR or Doom for a level or two and you have to pick a flashlight attachment.

Though I cant see the switching between 1st and 3rd a good idea, let them just perfect what they have. Its a TPS/RPG not a FPS/TPS/RPG.

[PsyrenY]

Also, I think we are long past the possibility of ME becoming a "****** shooter." Even if you couldn't make any choices at all, the game would still have a landmark setting and storyline, much less the level of story that you are allowed to shape.

[CC-Tron]

Optimystic_X wrote...

spernus wrote...

The problem is that it's way too soon for Bioware.They aren't there yet and won't be for ME 3,they are lacking years behind Epic games or Crytek when it come to shooter mechanics.This is akind to expect Crytek or Epic games to create a rpg when they have no experience and can't write themselves out of a paper bag in their shooters.

You might be right, but consider this: they're already using the same game engine that GoW is. How hard would it be to simply add on the new abilities? It's a lot easier to incorporate something that has already been created than it is to make it from scratch.

spernus wrote...
Remember that in january 2010,Bioware released a game where you can properly aim while firing a gun.Mass effect 2 isn't on par with the first Gears of War (a game released in 2006) in term of shooter mechanics,so don't expect miracle for the third game.

I disagree, I think ME2 can easily stand toe-to-toe with GoW1. There is almost as much variety gun-wise, and much deeper tactics via the Rock-Paper-Scissors power-defense system. Offensively, ME's gunplay is superiors: all Gears had was "harder enemy = more bullets" and "active reloading" as far as offensive tactics, and ME is already past that. I'm not proposing either of these. It's defense where Gears beats ME: Blind fire, mobile cover, laying traps, human shields, rolling/diving - these are all defensive maneuvers.

I think that's what Spernus meant. The defensive aspect are still part of what makes a good shooter. I agree that the shooter portion ME2 is not on par with the dedicated shooter GOW 1.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 13 septembre 2010 - 04:45 .

[theelementslayer]

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's defense where Gears beats ME: Blind fire, mobile cover, laying traps, human shields, rolling/diving - these are all defensive maneuvers.

I agree with mobile cover, laying traps and human sheilds. Rolling wouldnt work with the amout of weapons on Shepards back as well as the armour that she wears. Blindfire, maybe but I always see it kinda stupid, just a personal preference though. Diving I could see but let it take a while before she can get back up.

[CC-Tron]

theelementslayer wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's defense where Gears beats ME: Blind fire, mobile cover, laying traps, human shields, rolling/diving - these are all defensive maneuvers.

I agree with mobile cover, laying traps and human sheilds. Rolling wouldnt work with the amout of weapons on Shepards back as well as the armour that she wears. Blindfire, maybe but I always see it kinda stupid, just a personal preference though. Diving I could see but let it take a while before she can get back up.

The blind firing was one of the best aspects of GOW IMO. It's also a reason why I play infiltrator in ME2. The other classes have to expose themselves by popping up from cover  to use their tech, biotics or gun. The infiltrator can at least cloak then shoot.

[Whatever42]

Bioware has already said that they are working on improving the gameplay. But I'm fine with the current mechanics. I only really want to see improvement in abilities (which will happen I think because of the level increase), level design (more open maps, fewer narrow corridors, more imagination - I think we've seen this in DLC like overlord), and more imaginative boss enounters. I also want to see encounters that encourage more movement - being able to park it behind a crate and demolish the enemy gets dull.



I do not want to see FPS mechanics (not at this point in the series).

[PsyrenY]

CC-Tron wrote...

I think that's what Spernus meant. The defensive aspect are still part of what makes a good shooter. I agree that the shooter portion ME2 is not on par with the dedicated shooter GOW 1.

I know; my point was that if BW already has half the formula right, then it's not totally unreasonable that they can add some cool defensive abilities for the third installment. I'm not saying Shep should do everything Marcus and co. can do, but rolling from one bit of cover to another or being able to blind fire aren't unreasonable and would add a lot of depth to combat.


Anyway, on to more ideas:

-Controllable Turrets: So far in ME, all the turrets have been automatically run by VI. Some manual turrets would be a nice change of pace; for instance in a "hold the LZ and mow down husks" type of encounter. That could break up gameplay and keep things from getting too stale. You could then encounter the scenario of stealing the enemy's turret from them - using squadmates, powers or the aforementioned grenades to remove them from their entrenched position so you can close in.

[dislye]

BLINDFIRE!! We MUST have blindfire! A lot of people think Gears of War was the first game to use it but that is not the case. It was first use in Killswitch (a game for PS2 and xbox) Blindfire would stop Shep from getting pummeled by bullets. I HATED when I would play on Insanity, use a power, and then get OWNED because my Sheps' animations left them out of cover for too long. Remedy for that? Blindfire.

[Kavadas]

WTF, why would anyone think that increasing the quality of the game's combat comes at the expense of RPG elements?

And why the hell wouldn't anyone want the quality of ME's combat to improve?

The weakest aspect of any Bioware title has always been the gameplay.  Until ME2 I'd say the basic gameplay of every Bioware game I've played has been pretty bad and, as others have pointed out, Bioware are half to a full decade behind everyone else when it comes to combat mechanics. 

Hell, even ME2's combat isn't much to be proud of.  It's basically right and well executed... just basically.

[Viper-sfm]

We need crouching when out of cover. That's my only complaint. It's such an important part of FPS that I still don't know why they took it out for ME2, specially since the AI can do it and we can't ¬¬

[dreman9999]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

FPS aiming mode, then back to 3rd person?

....Sniper rifle.

[zazei]

I would suggest adding some sort of power progression that make sure we don't use exactly the same abilities and styles on the first level as the last. Since they don't want very long skill trees any more I would suggest keeping the current system but having a certain amount of abilities locked for Shepard from the start as well that much be either found or brought later in the game. Would require being able to respec at will between mission but it's better then maxing out one ability after tutorial level and then using it until the collector base.

[PsyrenY]

Viper-sfm wrote...

We need crouching when out of cover. That's my only complaint. It's such an important part of FPS that I still don't know why they took it out for ME2, specially since the AI can do it and we can't ¬¬

You can - move to the side edge of cover and Shepard will pop out while still low to the ground.

AI is always very accurate though, so it doesn't make much difference to how long you can stay out.

zazei wrote...

I would suggest adding some sort of power progression that make sure we don't use exactly the same abilities and styles on the first level as the last. Since they don't want very long skill trees any more I would suggest keeping the current system but having a certain amount of abilities locked for Shepard from the start as well that much be either found or brought later in the game. Would require being able to respec at will between mission but it's better then maxing out one ability after tutorial level and then using it until the collector base.

I'm not sure I understand - they do lock certain abilities at the start.  You are allowed to unlock them fairly early on, but you generally have to choose between switching over to them, or maxing the ability you're in now.

[zazei]

I mean something similar as with either Loyalty missions for companions but for Shepard. One is locked until a certain point in the game or something. To make it more fun make players buy them and add a power system that merge the one we had in ME2 with combat forms from say Jade Empire where you started with three basic ways and then picked up more along the way.

I don't want to see a return of 1% damage boosts either from skill points but neither do I want to use the same invisibility cloak I got at first level at the final boss. When I replayed ME2 recently I maxed out one skill after Lazerus station and then used it pretty much until the end. 

Modifié par zazei, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[SirRengeti]

No matter if RPG, ActionRPG or Shooter. The mouse acceleration is a pain in the ass. It is way too fast. We need an option to adjust it.

Modifié par SirRengeti, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[Amfortas]

I've tried to forget the existence of this game (I consider it was a failure as a shooter and as a RPG) so I don't remember most details, but a few things that come to my mind are:



- No health regeneration in combat. Shephard is not a krogan or a vorcha as far as I know. If he is, well, the enemies should be able to use incendiary ammo at least (I don't remember if they do, but I'm sure not very often at least).

- No adrenaline rush, it's the prefect example of "press Y to win"

- No submachine guns, if I wanted to use something like that I'd play I soldier with an assault rifle.

- For the above reason more ammo for the pistol and the shotgun, with a capacity of around 20 shots I'm not sure how can I win a fight using exclusively the pistol.

- Better level design of course

- I would say more biotic powers for the enemies, but considering that you always have shields I guess only warp can work... damned restrictions

[TheCrakFox]

As others have said, blindfire would be a nice addition, with the abilitiy to tell your squad to lay down surpressing fire too.

When you use a biotic/tech power you shouldn't scope in automatically, it's pretty annoying if you're using a sniper.

[Shotokanguy]

Better controls, better cover system, more fluid movement for Shepard.



Things like crouching, storming right over cover instead of going into it then hopping over it, more hotkeys, etc. will make the combat feel better.

[Jamin101]

The level design is a must. Im currently doing a second playthrough and i find myself thinking "dang not that level or that loyalty mission" because i know all it is is killing mercs. Seriously do the blue suns have a deal for 1 out of every 4 babies born or something, you kill 150 every freaking level. Waves of enemies isnt hard its boring, make variety like other people have said.



Add more rpg to it like me1. I want to be able to choose out of many pistols, upgrades for weapons, different armor etc.



Bring back charm, i liked having to put points in that cause it could get you out of battles. I dont like that i have to be either good or bad and cant just play to get those options in the second (jack tali moments).



Make the squad not useless, how many times will garrus stand there taking bullets with cover 5 feet away

[PsyrenY]

Amfortas wrote...

- No health regeneration in combat. Shephard is not a krogan or a vorcha as far as I know. If he is, well, the enemies should be able to use incendiary ammo at least (I don't remember if they do, but I'm sure not very often at least).

While I'm abivalent on regenerating health myself, didymos dug up dialogue explaining it - hardsuit VIs automatically administer small amounts of medigel while in the field if you are out of fire for enough time. They cut it from the tutorial though, likely for time constraints.

Amfortas wrote...
- No adrenaline rush, it's the prefect example of "press Y to win"
- No submachine guns, if I wanted to use something like that I'd play I soldier with an assault rifle.

These I don't agree with at all. If you don't like something that's optional, the solution is not to use it yourself, not to deny its use to people that do like it.

Shotokanguy wrote...

Things like crouching, storming right over cover instead of going into it then hopping over it, more hotkeys, etc. will make the combat feel better.

I think that's just part of the engine - even the Gears guys do that, IIRC.

[Getorex]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Crysis does a very good job with weapon modifications. Being able to fit a laser aim, grenade launcher, reflex sight, scope etc. to your weapons really provides many different ways on how to use them. Each weapon having modular mounting points on certain sections would be a great way to reintroduce the "upgrades" of Mass Effect 1. Each modification would offer unique effects - a laser aim would eliminate the crosshairs and well, give you a laser (much like the M5) in both the regular and "zoomed" modes. A holographic sight mounted on a rifle would give you a first-person zoom.

Stealth is also something I'd like to see. Right now combat events are extremely scripted, and there is no way to avoid an engagement. Some levels where you have a choice of blasting right through - or evading the enemy, or a mix of combat and stealth would be nice.

More accurate ballistics would be great to have. Certain weapons should be able to penetrate cover, and different cover should have different properties.

I cannot disagree with any of this.  I DO like the 3rd person of ME2 and would not like to see it be switched out to FP during combat though I do love Crysis.  I have long thought that borrowing some of the strengths of Crysis (and Far Cry before it) would be a good thing, particularly the stealth/sneaky mode.  Carefully sneaking around heavy concentrations of enemy and avoiding a ruinous fight is pretty cool (and nice).  I'd also like to have more accurate/realistic physics/ballistics wrt weapons in ME3.  

I'd also like to see a mix between ME1 and ME2 wrt ammo.  ME1 was great because you never ran out of ammo but had to be careful to avoid overheating your weapon.  ME2 tossed that - looking for heatsinks is virtually identical to looking for ammo clips laying around (unrealistic!).  How about when you run out of heatsinks you can still use your weapon but have to be more conservative because of heat buildup ala ME1?