114 réponses à ce sujet

[SirRengeti]

nremies1 wrote...

No argument that cover and squad command need to be improved, but why leave the ME2 weapon system?  You didn't like the ME1 weapon mods to tweak them?

Not really. There were just too many useless items. You just ended up with lots and lots of crap and reducing it to omnigel was annoying as hell.
Maybe they can put in some minor modding devices (like better zoom (4x) for the Assault rifle) but I don't think it is necessary.

[Tazzmission]

nremies1 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

LEAVE THE ME2 WEAPON SYSTEM IN ME3. if anything needs to be improved its the cover system and squad command.

No argument that cover and squad command need to be improved, but why leave the ME2 weapon system?  You didn't like the ME1 weapon mods to tweak them?

i enjoy the clip system because its more realistic. as much as i love me1 i hated the unlimited ammo and the overheat system

[nremies1]

I was just referring to the weapon mods...I agree that in ME1 there were too many of them. If they make a comeback there need to be far fewer of them, yes.

[lazuli]

kalle90 wrote...

lazuli wrote...
And health regeneration needs to remain.  We had it in ME1 as an option.  This option was so far superior to the other suit mods that, with maybe one exception, the other mods never saw use.

It felt like a reward in ME1 and it didn't become overpowered until with the later mods that also gave toxin resistances along the huge health regenerations. If the mods were balanced better health mods wouldn't have been a must have, or they would have been very rare.

ME2 removed sense of progression and customization in many ways and this also contributed to it.

I don't ever want to feel like I need to set my controller down and go do something else for ~5 minutes just so my characters [or vehicle] can heal.  The modern trend is shifting away from punitive systems like non-regenerating health.  I'm open to changes, though.

[KainrycKarr]

Kronner wrote...

Enemies:
- Enhance Enemy AI - this is a must, they are too stupid and predictable now
- Give enemies special tech (damping, overload), biotic (throw, warp, stasis) and combat (flashbangs, inferno grenades) and make them use these ALL the time on harder difficulties
- Make enemies attack player's position from several ways at once
- Make krogan enemies the way they were in ME1, not the joke ME2 krogan is
- Add enemy snipers - kinda like geth snipers in ME1 - make them do insane damage, on harder difficulties ability to one shot player
- Fix rockets - in ME2 rockets do laughable damage, but they stagger all the time - make them do high damage

Squad:
- Better AI is a must
- write special AI for each squadmate, not just a few different AI scripts based on the weapon they are using at the moment

General:
- Add weapon stats - it really sucks this is not present in ME2
- make armor meaningful - in ME2 armor makes very little difference on higher difficulties, it should make a significant difference (see ME1)
- none weapon option - do not force me to take a freaking pistol and heavy weapon if I do not want to
- Make upgrades much more noticeable, but also more limited - example - you can pick either damage or rate of fire upgrade, but you can't have both.
- Remove medigel OR automatic health regeneration

Yes, to all this.

[xbeton0L]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

FPS aiming mode, then back to 3rd person?

i know this is late, but.... small head in right or left bottom corner? a good adaptation from 3rd to an "almost" 1st person perspective. As far as this goes, I think it's fine the way it is. I've never had aiming problems with it, unlike some FPS I've played with the GUN taking up half the goddamn screen. in ME2 (as far as I know) it's an over-the-shoulder perspective, wayy better than FPS. imho.

Edit:

KainrycKarr wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Enemies:
- Enhance Enemy AI - this is a must, they are too stupid and predictable now
- Give enemies special tech (damping, overload), biotic (throw, warp, stasis) and combat (flashbangs, inferno grenades) and make them use these ALL the time on harder difficulties
- Make enemies attack player's position from several ways at once
- Make krogan enemies the way they were in ME1, not the joke ME2 krogan is
- Add enemy snipers - kinda like geth snipers in ME1 - make them do insane damage, on harder difficulties ability to one shot player
- Fix rockets - in ME2 rockets do laughable damage, but they stagger all the time - make them do high damage

Squad:
- Better AI is a must
- write special AI for each squadmate, not just a few different AI scripts based on the weapon they are using at the moment

General:
- Add weapon stats - it really sucks this is not present in ME2
- make armor meaningful - in ME2 armor makes very little difference on higher difficulties, it should make a significant difference (see ME1)
- none weapon option - do not force me to take a freaking pistol and heavy weapon if I do not want to
- Make upgrades much more noticeable, but also more limited - example - you can pick either damage or rate of fire upgrade, but you can't have both.
- Remove medigel OR automatic health regeneration

Yes, to all this.

This, and add an accessory system. Like most RPGs, you usually can modify the equipment you get and use. To add, make the weapon upgrades actually "do" something, preferably visible changes.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 15 septembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Shadow_broker]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Enemies:
- Enhance Enemy AI - this is a must, they are too stupid and predictable now
- Give enemies special tech (damping, overload), biotic (throw, warp, stasis) and combat (flashbangs, inferno grenades) and make them use these ALL the time on harder difficulties
- Make enemies attack player's position from several ways at once
- Make krogan enemies the way they were in ME1, not the joke ME2 krogan is
- Add enemy snipers - kinda like geth snipers in ME1 - make them do insane damage, on harder difficulties ability to one shot player
- Fix rockets - in ME2 rockets do laughable damage, but they stagger all the time - make them do high damage

Squad:
- Better AI is a must
- write special AI for each squadmate, not just a few different AI scripts based on the weapon they are using at the moment
-More Gear Customazation

General:
- Add weapon stats - it really sucks this is not present in ME2
- make armor meaningful - in ME2 armor makes very little difference on higher difficulties, it should make a significant difference (see ME1)
- none weapon option - do not force me to take a freaking pistol and heavy weapon if I do not want to
- Make upgrades much more noticeable, but also more limited - example - you can pick either damage or rate of fire upgrade, but you can't have both.
- Remove medigel OR automatic health regeneration

Yes, to all this.

Pretty good other than two i underlined
Also added one bolded

To first one: There are some powers such as Warp that enemies could be used, But being hit by a singularity resulting in death on insanity would simply be frustrating, Some bosses may use the stronger biotics(see vassir) but common enemies should avoid this

PS Some enemies actually do use flashbang

To scond one: Snipers can be re added, but if they result in 1 shot kills for shepard on insanity it would not be a fair death and very frustrating considering i have no way to know when a sniper is aiming in my direction. Too much of a focus on DMG for difficulty in ME2 don't need this, Smarter>Stronger

To third one, To a certain extent i'd like more meaningful armor. but ME1 armor combinations made gear customaztion>Skill in actual gameplay so keep it limited

[xbeton0L]

maybe if they added class-specific gear, like stupid-strong Vanguard shields.

[Atmosfear3]

I would not be opposed to play Gears Effect 3 er..



While ME2 improved upon the gameplay aspects, there are still lots of room for improvement.



- Improved AI. Its time we get some intelligent enemies with more varied abilities/weapons. Ironically this was something ME1 did right with the Geth Hoppers, snipers, and Krogan.

- Adding blindfire would also require AI improvements as well (right now suppressive fire does nothing except expose you since enemies follow a script as they move, attack, and take cover.

- Bring back grenades with grenade arc indicator (i.e. gears/uncharted method). I'd like to know where my grenades are going to land.

- Improved combat environments. Cover shouldn't be so obvious in organized areas (i.e. non-combat warzones with debris). I'd like to see some pillars being destroyed in a cutscene, after which I can use it as cover for example.

- IMPROVE SQUAD AI PLEASE. Perhaps also improve their durability so the difficulty scaling of the game goes beyond just insane enemies with lots of protection and crazy damage/accuracy.

-

[PsyrenY]

I think Rockets are fine as they are. They can already 2-shot Shepard, so the only way to make them stronger would make them 1-shot, and that's as cheap as bringing Snipers back.



A 1-shot weapon would be doable if the enemy telegraphed it very visibily - like a lightning gun they had to charge, with a distinct sound that basically says "get your ass behind cover!"



As for armor - I don't want armor making too much impact (skill and talent selection should be the primary factor) but I do want several clear "caster sets" and "combat sets" whose pieces we can swap out like the Kestrel set, rather than homogenous face-hiding suits with static bonuses.

[AngryFrozenWater]

In addition to the what we have now I want lean left, lean right, prone, crouch, and jump. I also would like to see a "jump over" button that is not a key combination of moving forward and cover. That key combo caused me to accidentally jump over cover more than once (and die). Hehe. It's very annoying. I would also like to see the removal of the many cover thingies (crates, things that pop up from the ground, or platforms that are raised). More "natural" cover would be appreciated. For an example: The environment in Grunt's recruitment mission shows that this can be done without all the silly crates. Garrus' loyalty mission is an example of how not to do it.

And a key to switch between first and third person view would be welcome. First person view also allows easier navigation. At least for me.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 septembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ow... Before I forget: Ammo is not a power. It's something you equip your weapon with. It's now a power only to hide that there are less tech/biotic powers for each crew member in the game. The only advantage is that it has easy access to switch between ammo types. I also don't understand "squad ammo". It seems you have to learn how to use ammo (which can take up to 10 levels), but as soon as you have squad ammo everybody can use it automagically and skip a learning curve of 6 levels. It doesn't make sense. I also don't see why some ammo types have a requirement to learn another (totally unrelated) one first.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[lazuli]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ow... Before I forget: Ammo is not a power. It's something you equip your weapon with. It's now a power only to hide that there are less tech/biotic powers for each crew member in the game. The only advantage is that it has easy access to switch between ammo types.

Fair enough, but without ammo powers the Soldier's build is, well, almost empty.  What do you propose giving the Soldier and other combat classes to make up for this?  Immunity?  The philosophy behind ammo powers makes more sense in terms of gameplay than it does in terms of the lore/setting.  Ammo powers are a nice balance between active and passive abilities, and they bring some interesting gameplay to the table.  Additionally, they mesh well with the current cooldown system.

Maybe this thread should address the cooldown system.  I wouldn't be opposed to grouped cooldowns (using a Biotic power causes all Biotic powers to enter cooldown for a short time, but Tech and Combat powers are still available, for example).  That said, I've gotten used to the global cooldown system, and I would be fine with it making another appearance in ME3.

[Getorex]

Tazzmission wrote...

nremies1 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

LEAVE THE ME2 WEAPON SYSTEM IN ME3. if anything needs to be improved its the cover system and squad command.

No argument that cover and squad command need to be improved, but why leave the ME2 weapon system?  You didn't like the ME1 weapon mods to tweak them?

i enjoy the clip system because its more realistic. as much as i love me1 i hated the unlimited ammo and the overheat system

It wasn't really an unlimited ammo system in ME1.  If you read about the system, your weapon simply shaved off a small amount of metal material from a raw block (clip) and fired that at high velocity (as a plasma?).  That was fine because it made up for the NEAR unlimited ammo (you would eventually need to replace your feedstock clip though that never happened in ME1) by having to watch your overheating.  Together the two made sense.  In ME2, the same weapon system but with heatsinks was unnecessary.  If you are going to have to replace clips then might as well make it ammo clips.  Po-tay-to po-tah-to.

Mix ME1 and ME2 but limit the raw material available to your "bullet" feedstock so that every now and then you DO need to slap in a new ammo block.  You can also use heatsink clips to allow for continual rapid fire BUT when you run out of heatsinks you can still fire but in a more conservative way as in ME1 to prevent overheat.  Basically, think more deeply about the way the weapon(s) operate and make the maintenance and physics realistic to that form of operation.  In ME1 it was all balanced and right.  ME2 simply made it the same as all current FPS/combat games:  hunt for ammo that happens to be laying scattered around unrealistically (I have traveled quite a bit and am in the military now...I can assure you that I have NEVER wandered around a city, neighborhood, or combat zone in which stray ammo (and medkits) were simply scattered hither and yon.  You have to be protective if your ammo use and really avoid injury because your medkit only goes so far - and your injuries will quickly degrade your ability to fight.

More realism please, even in the future space of ME.  Make everything logically consistent and physically realistic, even making accomodation to magic like "biotics". 

[Xewaka]

Best way to improve the ME shooting experience? Bring back the Mako for ME3.

Or jetpacks.

Basically, ignore those stupid closed shooting galleries and bring back the big outside.

Modifié par Xewaka, 15 septembre 2010 - 05:25 .

[lazuli]

Getorex wrote...
I can assure you that I have NEVER wandered around a city, neighborhood, or combat zone in which stray ammo (and medkits) were simply scattered hither and yon.  You have to be protective if your ammo use and really avoid injury because your medkit only goes so far - and your injuries will quickly degrade your ability to fight.

More realism please, even in the future space of ME.  Make everything logically consistent and physically realistic, even making accomodation to magic like "biotics". 

I disagree.  It's a video game.  I can understand peoples' desire for realism, but gameplay will always win out over realism for me. 

The thermal clip system plays better and gives the developers another way to balance weaponry.  The overheating system from ME1 was far from perfect.  I know a marriage between the two has been proposed, but honestly that just sounds like a mess.  I'd have to see it in action and try it out before I could make a final judgment, though.

[Kavadas]

lazuli wrote...

Getorex wrote...
More realism please, even in the future space of ME.  Make everything logically consistent and physically realistic, even making accomodation to magic like "biotics". 

I disagree.  It's a video game.  I can understand peoples' desire for realism, but gameplay will always win out over realism for me.

I disagree.  A game's versmillitude is the primary contributing factor to my suspension of disbelief.  Nothing in this game annoyed me more than stupid story/game events which had no other explanation than, "It's a game, f**k it!"

I'm talking about stuff like the human reaper's feeding tubes which had randomly retracting armor (what sense does that make???), the fact that the human reaper just bobbed around and shot laser stuff out of it's eyes instead of simply... destroying... the platforms (which it apparently later figures out though it just bashes one or two and then calls it a day, lolz).

Stuff like an armory which magically connects to Jacob's on the Normandy found after nearly every single weapon acquisition (just let me scan the damn thing with the omni tool and move on) or the fact that I can only collect HW ammo in the middle of missions yet when the Oculi break into the cargo bay there are HW ammo crates littered all over the place (WTF?).

Sometimes putting gameplay over realism just makes a player realize how inane, trite, or banal a mechanic truly is.  Before you know it Bioware will start throwing in game elements as insipid as Frogger style platforming. 

Oh wait...

Modifié par Kavadas, 15 septembre 2010 - 05:42 .

[xbeton0L]

lazuli wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ow... Before I forget: Ammo is not a power. It's something you equip your weapon with. It's now a power only to hide that there are less tech/biotic powers for each crew member in the game. The only advantage is that it has easy access to switch between ammo types.

Fair enough, but without ammo powers the Soldier's build is, well, almost empty.  What do you propose giving the Soldier and other combat classes to make up for this?  Immunity?  The philosophy behind ammo powers makes more sense in terms of gameplay than it does in terms of the lore/setting.  Ammo powers are a nice balance between active and passive abilities, and they bring some interesting gameplay to the table.  Additionally, they mesh well with the current cooldown system.

Maybe this thread should address the cooldown system.  I wouldn't be opposed to grouped cooldowns (using a Biotic power causes all Biotic powers to enter cooldown for a short time, but Tech and Combat powers are still available, for example).  That said, I've gotten used to the global cooldown system, and I would be fine with it making another appearance in ME3.

Cooldowns. Meh.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[contown]

Add in blindfire, add in gears of war/uncharted-esque rolling, and tweak/clean up the cover system a bit.

[Quething]

Weapon heat was awesome because it was unique, and because it did more to explain and reinforce the eezo-based worldbuilding than pretty much any other mechanic in the whole game, biotics included. Every shooter out there uses an ammo system. It's not clever, it's not innovative, it's what they were doing in Doom and Wolfenstein two bloody decades ago. Infinite ammo coupled with heat management, though, that was distinct. That was a way to say, "look, it really is the future, this mass effect technology really has changed everything, even the way you think about managing your weapon resources."

But they scrapped it - even the hybrid system that they tested in beta - because it encourages players to camp out instead of playing aggressively, or some such nonsense. And the answer to that was, apparently, to toss out something innovative and franchise-specific to copy an old, boring, lorebreaking retconny generic-shooter-mechanic, instead of, oh, making the AI smart enough to flank you if you stay still too long, or even just make most cover destructible.

tl;dr version: Improve the shooter aspect by bringing back weapon heat to make ME more distinctive among shooters, and compensate by using minimal or destructible cover and more vigorous AI to flush players out of hiding.

While we're at it, regenerating shields on enemies, plus abilities and ammo that hit health bars directly instead of shields first, add an interesting tactical element that I'd also like to see brought back. What I wouldn't give for some phasic ammo against those damn Praetorians....

Modifié par Quething, 15 septembre 2010 - 10:59 .

[Atmosfear3]

Quething wrote...

Weapon heat was awesome because it was unique, and because it did more to explain and reinforce the eezo-based worldbuilding than pretty much any other mechanic in the whole game, biotics included. Every shooter out there uses an ammo system. It's not clever, it's not innovative, it's what they were doing in Doom and Wolfenstein two bloody decades ago. Infinite ammo coupled with heat management, though, that was distinct. That was a way to say, "look, it really is the future, this mass effect technology really has changed everything, even the way you think about managing your weapon resources."

But they scrapped it - even the hybrid system that they tested in beta - because it encourages players to camp out instead of playing aggressively, or some such nonsense. And the answer to that was, apparently, to toss out something innovative and franchise-specific to copy an old, boring, lorebreaking retconny generic-shooter-mechanic, instead of, oh, making the AI smart enough to flank you if you stay still too long, or even just make most cover destructible.

tl;dr version: Improve the shooter aspect by bringing back weapon heat to make ME more distinctive among shooters, and compensate by using minimal or destructible cover and more vigorous AI to flush players out of hiding.

While we're at it, regenerating shields on enemies, plus abilities and ammo that hit health bars directly instead of shields first, add an interesting tactical element that I'd also like to see brought back. What I wouldn't give for some phasic ammo against those damn Praetorians....

You honestly believe the heat system in ME1 was innovative? Lets not mistake innovation for laziness. The ME1 system was basically synonymous with limitless ammo given the right mods. A shooter without an ammo mechanic is weak. This is exactly why they revamped the gameplay in ME2.

[Tazzmission]

Xewaka wrote...

Best way to improve the ME shooting experience? Bring back the Mako for ME3.

Or jetpacks.

Basically, ignore those stupid closed shooting galleries and bring back the big outside.

give us the option to take the mako or hammer head because they could do a mission wher eit involved 2 squads of 3. 1 in the mako the other in hammerhead

[Quething]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

The ME1 system was basically synonymous with limitless ammo given the right mods.

Emphasis mine, but you yourself just said it. The problem was the mods, not the heat system. That's a balance issue, not a conceptual one. Remove or reduce the effectiveness of frictionless mats and boom, there's that problem fixed, just like that. None of this "the horse has a splinter, let's shoot it and buy a cow" business we got in ME2 instead.

[Getorex]

What I missed in ME2 from ME1 was the Krogan charges and the Geth Prime or other charges. They were FAST and it worked out to be very intimidating. When Miranda would call out "Krogan charging!" in ME2, in contrast, I couldn't really tell.



Bring back that intimidation factor - when an enemy charges, make it FAST again.

[brfritos]

Everytime this kind of discution is raised I saw a lot of comments here and there saying I don't mind "Gears Effect" or "Call of Effect" or "insert-your-game-here".
Why copy another game mechanics or style? So now we have TWO games that have the same gameplay type?

I'm not a fan of the Dragon Age series, let's make this clear, but I'm concerned with DA2 because the game is turning to be "another ME2", but this time with dragons & castle instead ships and space.
What's the point behind having two games that have the exact behavior and mechanics, but only the textures change?

I don't wanna this, I think each game should have their own style and gameplay.
I play the DA:O demo and the mechanics reminds me A LOT ME1 as the game progress.

I don't know, maybe there is a "Bioware style" but if this means "same gameplay, only different enviroment" I'm out.
 I'm eagerly awaiting The Witcher 2 because is beign developed by CD Projekt, so we have a different gamestyle and possibly very different ideas.