It's not about "copying" from Gears of War or Call of Duty or any other 3rd-person shooter. It's about learning from what those games did right, and leaving the rest.
ME combat is already far different from that of Gears, CoD et al. Those games don't have powers, or layered and typed defenses, or controllable squadmates etc. We aren't trying to take away the things that make ME unique - we're trying provide suggestions to improve on the things that it could be doing better.
There is quite simply no chance of ME3 becoming "just like" Gears or any other game, even just looking at the gunplay. It gets even more unique once you factor in the story and characterization.
Ways to improve the shooter aspect of ME
Débuté par
PsyrenY
, sept. 13 2010 01:52
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#102
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 01:13
Getorex
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I haven't played GoW but have CoD. Common FPS controls are no worky in ME. You are dealing with 2 squadmates. The closest FPS I've played in this regard are the EXCELLENT Ghost Recon an Ghost Recon II. You control your squadmembers there and are able to tell them to provide coverage of a certain sector or specify they attack a target. Not too different than ME but the fact is that when you are having to manage squadies, you can't use the simple FPS controls of Doom III, MoH, CoD, Half-Life, etc. If they try to start adding extra controls for leaning around cover, going prone, crouching, as well as keeping the current set of actions, then it wont work out well.
#103
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 01:44
FluxDeluxe
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Proper grenades
More unique combat orientated class powers like the vanguards rush
Fix certain biotics
Improve enemy A.I, make them more tactical allow them to flush you and team mated out of cover more
Improve team mate A.I and allow a pause function to map tactical moves i.e move to this cover pop warp move to this cover suppress etc.
make the environments more interactive, destructable cover, more use of height and depth in level design
More unique combat orientated class powers like the vanguards rush
Fix certain biotics
Improve enemy A.I, make them more tactical allow them to flush you and team mated out of cover more
Improve team mate A.I and allow a pause function to map tactical moves i.e move to this cover pop warp move to this cover suppress etc.
make the environments more interactive, destructable cover, more use of height and depth in level design
#104
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 03:15
Zuranamee
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We support the return of overheating rather than thermal clips. Here's an awesome concept: Hey, we modified your gun so it absolutely cannot fire if the thermal clip overheats... Wait... Doesn't heat... Dissipate? And yet, its capacity will not increase. Ever. Thermal clips are actually thermal batteries, apparently with the ability to defy the laws of physics.
#105
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 06:39
Mr. MannlyMan
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@ Zuranamee
That's exactly what I thought when I first learned that Bioware were introducing ammo to ME2.
There have been plenty of suggestions for combining the ammo and the overheating mechanics of weapons in ME3, though. Make it possible to fire without thermal clips, but make the weapons less effective by doing so (ie. Reducing weapon damage, disabling ammo types and reverting to the standard ammo, etc).
This would make sense, and would also support the change in gameplay while giving players an incentive to stockpile thermal clips (though stats would be a requirement, otherwise players wouldn't know how much they're affected by entering combat without thermal clips.)
Course, the reduction in damage caused by not using thermal clips could also be explained as being equivalent to the baseline damage dealt by ME1's ammo-less weapons. In fact, the lore could go like this:
Following the Geth attack on the Citadel, defense technologies such as shields, armor and biotic barriers experienced a massive technological leap; in comparison, infantry weapons were disadvantaged due to their limited heat sink capacity and heat dissipation properties. As a result of these limitations, common weapons could no longer keep up with the advances being made in defense technologies of the time. The introduction of the universal thermal clip, imitating Geth equivalents, resolved this disadvantage by reducing the amount of heat stored by the weapon's primary heat sink when firing. As a result of this heat reduction, a weapon could experience a significant increase in damage merely by tweaking it's software parameters.
In effect, this borrowed innovation quickly closed the gap between weapons and defensive technologies in the field.
Or something like that. I really think that using both gameplay mechanics in ME3 would still preserve the intensity of combat, and not only would it make sense in terms of the lore, but it would also add a layer to the strategy already involved with managing thermal clips.
Other than that, I thought that ME2's shooter gameplay was awesome. I do think that biotics, when evolving Lift or Throw, should be given the ability to choose a version that allows them to lift or throw an armored/shielded enemy.
That's exactly what I thought when I first learned that Bioware were introducing ammo to ME2.
There have been plenty of suggestions for combining the ammo and the overheating mechanics of weapons in ME3, though. Make it possible to fire without thermal clips, but make the weapons less effective by doing so (ie. Reducing weapon damage, disabling ammo types and reverting to the standard ammo, etc).
This would make sense, and would also support the change in gameplay while giving players an incentive to stockpile thermal clips (though stats would be a requirement, otherwise players wouldn't know how much they're affected by entering combat without thermal clips.)
Course, the reduction in damage caused by not using thermal clips could also be explained as being equivalent to the baseline damage dealt by ME1's ammo-less weapons. In fact, the lore could go like this:
Following the Geth attack on the Citadel, defense technologies such as shields, armor and biotic barriers experienced a massive technological leap; in comparison, infantry weapons were disadvantaged due to their limited heat sink capacity and heat dissipation properties. As a result of these limitations, common weapons could no longer keep up with the advances being made in defense technologies of the time. The introduction of the universal thermal clip, imitating Geth equivalents, resolved this disadvantage by reducing the amount of heat stored by the weapon's primary heat sink when firing. As a result of this heat reduction, a weapon could experience a significant increase in damage merely by tweaking it's software parameters.
In effect, this borrowed innovation quickly closed the gap between weapons and defensive technologies in the field.
Or something like that. I really think that using both gameplay mechanics in ME3 would still preserve the intensity of combat, and not only would it make sense in terms of the lore, but it would also add a layer to the strategy already involved with managing thermal clips.
Other than that, I thought that ME2's shooter gameplay was awesome. I do think that biotics, when evolving Lift or Throw, should be given the ability to choose a version that allows them to lift or throw an armored/shielded enemy.
#106
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 06:50
Kavadas
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Zuranamee wrote...
I support the return of overheating rather than thermal clips.
Fixed. Personally, I don't. In fact, if they just retcon honest-to-goodness ammunition into ME3 I'd be fine with it. Not including it in the first place was a major oversight/mistake.
I just wish they would have bothered to emphasize the point here and there throughout the game; I'm never in danger of running out of ammo and I generally play on hardcore. It would be nice if there was a (long) mission or two in which your ammo was never resupplied. I'd enjoy that desperation.
Jacob's loyalty mission would have been perfect for this. It still bugs the crap out of me that the Hugo-Gernsback crashed eight years ago, with pre-thermal clip weapons onboard, yet two years ago weapons utilizing thermal clips hadn't been introduced yet, and all of the weapons in that mission use the clips. WTF?
Nice job, Bioware. There shouldn't be a single thermal clip in that mission.
Modifié par Kavadas, 17 septembre 2010 - 06:53 .
#107
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 06:55
Epic777
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Zuranamee wrote...
We support the return of overheating rather than thermal clips. Here's an awesome concept: Hey, we modified your gun so it absolutely cannot fire if the thermal clip overheats... Wait... Doesn't heat... Dissipate? And yet, its capacity will not increase. Ever. Thermal clips are actually thermal batteries, apparently with the ability to defy the laws of physics.
I don't believe you would find deceive support for for the return of overheating and certainly not from me. I cannot see that system being good when combined with a fast combat such as the one me2 had.
#108
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 07:31
PsyrenY
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I'm fine with a hybrid system but it's really a minor concern. The gunplay will be good either way, so long as we don't return to the pure overheat/cooldown (no clips) of ME1.
#109
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 08:49
Zuranamee
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For those who don't know us, we are Geth, and thus the plural when referring to ourselves. Calm down.
#110
Posté 17 septembre 2010 - 11:26
TheShogunOfHarlem
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How about bringing crouch back??
I seem to be the only person who didn't have any issue with combat in ME1. It wasn't perfect and there was certainly room for improvement, but ME2 only solved some of the issues that ME1 had and created more issues. ME2 combat relies too heavily on the cover system which made combat repetitive. Combat was too predictable partially because of level design which was too linear and confining. It was also way to obvious. AI placement/spawning was also predictable. Really wish that an enemy would spawn in a place I wouldn't expect from time to time.
If there is one thing I would like to see added to gameplay it would be prone. However, I think that it should be done right. Movement in general was unnatural and I think they should Motion capture better movement dynamics in general. If they include prone they should follow MGS4.
I seem to be the only person who didn't have any issue with combat in ME1. It wasn't perfect and there was certainly room for improvement, but ME2 only solved some of the issues that ME1 had and created more issues. ME2 combat relies too heavily on the cover system which made combat repetitive. Combat was too predictable partially because of level design which was too linear and confining. It was also way to obvious. AI placement/spawning was also predictable. Really wish that an enemy would spawn in a place I wouldn't expect from time to time.
If there is one thing I would like to see added to gameplay it would be prone. However, I think that it should be done right. Movement in general was unnatural and I think they should Motion capture better movement dynamics in general. If they include prone they should follow MGS4.
#111
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 02:48
davidshooter
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Kronner wrote...
Enemies:
- Enhance Enemy AI - this is a must, they are too stupid and predictable now
- Give enemies special tech (damping, overload), biotic (throw, warp, stasis) and combat (flashbangs, inferno grenades) and make them use these ALL the time on harder difficulties
- Make enemies attack player's position from several ways at once
- Make krogan enemies the way they were in ME1, not the joke ME2 krogan is
- Add enemy snipers - kinda like geth snipers in ME1 - make them do insane damage, on harder difficulties ability to one shot player
- Fix rockets - in ME2 rockets do laughable damage, but they stagger all the time - make them do high damage
Squad:
- Better AI is a must
- write special AI for each squadmate, not just a few different AI scripts based on the weapon they are using at the moment
General:
- Add weapon stats - it really sucks this is not present in ME2
- make armor meaningful - in ME2 armor makes very little difference on higher difficulties, it should make a significant difference (see ME1)
- none weapon option - do not force me to take a freaking pistol and heavy weapon if I do not want to
- Make upgrades much more noticeable, but also more limited - example - you can pick either damage or rate of fire upgrade, but you can't have both.
- Remove medigel OR automatic health regeneration
^^This^^
#112
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 03:36
Whereto
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blind fire and cover hopping is right up there, followed by better AI and customisation of guns. Also there was a thread about this recently in which the problem of shepard and squad using there backs to hug cover, the problem with that is they would struggle to get up with the armour weight and the shoulder is a much better and quick option(using your back apparently isnt taught by military )
#113
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 03:41
Pocketgb
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I'd love to see more interesting recoil. It's why I found the Avenger not the most effective but the most fun.
Modifié par Pocketgb, 18 septembre 2010 - 03:41 .
#114
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 06:01
Epic777
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I will be as tactful as I can but I have to wonder has reaper indoctrination gotten to the people of this board? Seriously, meaningful progression me1 especially with weapons, armor etc? I was never a fan with the way me1 handled equipment however while doing my first new game+ on me1 I loathe it.
Me1 has hundreds of weapons that are a little bit better or worse from the next or the previous set, the difference being small it barely makes a difference. The best weapons can be acquired early making all the weapons redundant unfortunately weapons still come by the bucketful.
The worse part is because the player is at higher level in a new game+; this was much worse than a normal game. Me2 may is not perfect but going back with me1's system.would be a major step backwards.
Me1 has hundreds of weapons that are a little bit better or worse from the next or the previous set, the difference being small it barely makes a difference. The best weapons can be acquired early making all the weapons redundant unfortunately weapons still come by the bucketful.
The worse part is because the player is at higher level in a new game+; this was much worse than a normal game. Me2 may is not perfect but going back with me1's system.would be a major step backwards.
Modifié par Epic777, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:03 .
#115
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 06:07
kraidy1117
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The only improvement that needs to happen is make the Thermal clips like it's stated in lore in gameplay, tweak the heavy weapons, add a mini map, squad customization, weapon modding,each squadmate has 6 powers and three guns and that's it. Focus on the story.
Modifié par kraidy1117, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:08 .
