15 réponses à ce sujet

[DigitReaper]

Trying to replace my GeForce 6200 to play this game, made the mistake of buying something that wouldn't work but I was able to cancel it. So before I make another mistake, I was hoping if anybody knows a good AGP I can buy without going too far.

Someone mentioned this one here www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp

I'm just trying to not be too expsensive and I wont get an PCI-E untill I upgrade my computer in the coming months. Which I'm saving up for now.

-Thanks
DigitReaper

[dragoaskani]

It will "work" if you are stuck with an agp card, but you won't be able to run with all the bells and whistles probably and still get a playable framerate. I could be wrong of course, but if my memory of the agp architecture is right its gonna be a bottleneck for performance. Maybe you should just skip dragon age (I know sad to hear) and work on the computer first, then come back and visit it in all its glory? Just my 2 coppers though.

[DigitReaper]

Yeah, sounds like I might as well just get it for the 360 for now D:

[Gorath Alpha]

Where is your original thread?  (Whoops!  I remember -- in the other forum, isn't it?)

I found an HD 3650 for about $65 last evening, at Newegg.  The pricing for the AGP version of the HD 4650 seems to have gone up a little in recent days, but your are being penalized for holding onto an old system too long.  The PCI version of the HD 4650 is often for sale right at $40.  I wouldn't put a lot of money into a system that old. 

OK, here is the HD 3650: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx

P. S.  Ignore this:

dragoaskani wrote...

It will "work" if you are stuck with
an agp card, but you won't be able to run with all the bells and
whistles probably and still get a playable framerate. I could be wrong
of course, but if my memory of the agp architecture is right its gonna
be a bottleneck for performance. Maybe you should just skip dragon age
(I know sad to hear) and work on the computer first, then come back and
visit it in all its glory? Just my 2 coppers though.

Dragos is way wrong.  Not only has the top (8X) bandwith of AGP never been too narrow for any card, none of today's video cards (that aren't being made available in AGP) are exceeding the old AGP max, not yet.

P. S. I've answered your PM question as well, now (12:05 PM Central Standard Daylight Time).

Gorath
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Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 11 novembre 2009 - 06:08 .

[Gorath Alpha]

I can't get the stupid forum software to let me see and edit my reply! 

Because I remember now why the same question ended up having two threads.  You started out in the "General" topics with it, didn't you? 

P.  S.  I made a trip to the nearby PC Parts discounter for a USB extension.  One of my lazy, but lovable, cats was just crowding out my big Merc "Stealth" keyboard, lying at the end of the keyboard drawer here.  So I brought in an i_rocks keyboard that is much shorter, but the cord on that keyboard is also short  -- that's why I never saw your PM come in.

Gorath
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Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 11 novembre 2009 - 06:09 .

[astila76]

My advice would be to wait until you can buy a pci express 2 graphics card with your new system it seems a waste to do anything else.

[cmykflutterby]

agp really does not have the bandwidth for this game- even on low, agp cards aren't beefy enough to handle all the updates for textures, anim data, etc all at once. you have to remember that your bus is also a huge factor- agp busses aren't pci-e, can't divide into diff lanes for synchronous transfers at high data rates. You're pretty much going to have to go pci-e. It's just a matter of when you want to do it.

dragoaskani is right, update the machine and get back to DAO- you'll be much much happier then!

[dragoaskani]

Dragos is way wrong.  Not only has the top (8X) bandwith of AGP never been too narrow for any card, none of today's video cards (that aren't being made available in AGP) are exceeding the old AGP max, not yet.

One of the drawbacks to AGP is that it is a unidirectional bus. Data
can flow in both directions. Unfortunately, it can only attain the 8X
speed in one direction. In the other direction, it’s more like 1X. PCI
Express simplifies things by using two separate buses, one for upstream
and one for downstream data transfers. Not only does this eliminate the
time wasted while switching direction, data can be flowing in both
directions at the same time. That means data can be moving at 16X or
about 4 Gigabytes per second in both directions.

Please don't say I am way wrong when I am actually way right. AGP performance is over 200% inferior to PCI-E performance. I just didn't want to look up the information to cite it. So you are advocating that he wastes 70 dollars on an inferior part for an outdated machine when he should be either looking at the 360 version or looking to move his computer into a more recent time line. The AGP socket was already outdated in 2005 when the PCI-E motherboards started coming out. When you dare to call someone way wrong you should take the time to learn exactly what the part does. I can bring up many more references showing how inferior the AGP cards are to teh PCI-E cards, but really whats the need? 

[JironGhrad]

cmykflutterby wrote...

agp really does not have the bandwidth for this game- even on low, agp cards aren't beefy enough to handle all the updates for textures, anim data, etc all at once. you have to remember that your bus is also a huge factor- agp busses aren't pci-e, can't divide into diff lanes for synchronous transfers at high data rates. You're pretty much going to have to go pci-e. It's just a matter of when you want to do it.
dragoaskani is right, update the machine and get back to DAO- you'll be much much happier then!

Better not tell my X1650 Pro (AGP) that then, because it works fine... on high textures with high graphics (no AA) or high textures with medium graphics (2x AA).  I'm getting 30-40 FPS, and haven't seen a load time over 30 seconds until I've been running the game continuously for more than 15 hours

[dragoaskani]

JironGhrad wrote...

cmykflutterby wrote...

agp really does not have the bandwidth for this game- even on low, agp cards aren't beefy enough to handle all the updates for textures, anim data, etc all at once. you have to remember that your bus is also a huge factor- agp busses aren't pci-e, can't divide into diff lanes for synchronous transfers at high data rates. You're pretty much going to have to go pci-e. It's just a matter of when you want to do it.
dragoaskani is right, update the machine and get back to DAO- you'll be much much happier then!

Better not tell my X1650 Pro (AGP) that then, because it works fine... on high textures with high graphics (no AA) or high textures with medium graphics (2x AA).  I'm getting 30-40 FPS, and haven't seen a load time over 30 seconds until I've been running the game continuously for more than 15 hours

Ah but thats not a very bandwith limited setting. Please try very high settings, High textures, 8x AA, and a 1900x1600(or whatever I dont have a widescreen so I don't know first hand how high those resolutions go) resolution. (Resolution and AA are what actually push a cards limits in terms of bandwidth management, anything less then that and you aren't truelly testing the card)

[JironGhrad]

dragoaskani wrote...

JironGhrad wrote...

cmykflutterby wrote...

agp really does not have the bandwidth for this game- even on low, agp cards aren't beefy enough to handle all the updates for textures, anim data, etc all at once. you have to remember that your bus is also a huge factor- agp busses aren't pci-e, can't divide into diff lanes for synchronous transfers at high data rates. You're pretty much going to have to go pci-e. It's just a matter of when you want to do it.
dragoaskani is right, update the machine and get back to DAO- you'll be much much happier then!

Better not tell my X1650 Pro (AGP) that then, because it works fine... on high textures with high graphics (no AA) or high textures with medium graphics (2x AA).  I'm getting 30-40 FPS, and haven't seen a load time over 30 seconds until I've been running the game continuously for more than 15 hours

Ah but thats not a very bandwith limited setting. Please try very high settings, High textures, 8x AA, and a 1900x1600(or whatever I dont have a widescreen so I don't know first hand how high those resolutions go) resolution. (Resolution and AA are what actually push a cards limits in terms of bandwidth management, anything less then that and you aren't truelly testing the card)

What point are you trying to make? She said it wouldn't work properly on low... I'm running at the max for my display (1680x1050) and I'm well aware that this was a mid-range card 2-3 years ago so trying to run the game with everything maxed out is simply an idiotic concept.  If you want to get into a pissing contest about it... I also only paid $50 for that X1650 Pro after rebates.

[Flakrat]

sheesh, my load times are almost always > 30 seconds and this is on a quad core, 64bit system with a Geforce 260GTX, all settings maxed



Luckilly the game doesn't transition too often.

[dragoaskani]

Who said I was trying to get in a pissing contest? I am just pointing out the flaws between pci-e and agp. I am running a 8800gtx ultra from 4 years ago and only doing it at 1280x1024 cause thats my monitors native...so I am have never even come close to using the expensive ass cards true potential in the 4 years I have had it...

[JironGhrad]

dragoaskani wrote...

Who said I was trying to get in a pissing contest? I am just pointing out the flaws between pci-e and agp. I am running a 8800gtx ultra from 4 years ago and only doing it at 1280x1024 cause thats my monitors native...so I am have never even come close to using the expensive ass cards true potential in the 4 years I have had it...

Well, I've not seen anyone disagreeing that the architecture of the PCI-E is superior to AGP.  What the previous point of contention is that the actual value difference of the architecture is actually smaller than the figures (8x AGP vs 16x PCI-E) would lead you to believe as there are clearly PCI-E cards that are failing to run the game at the level I've got it running at presently.  Likewise, I think what Gorath was getting at is that even without bi-directional simulataneous communication an HD 4800 (AGP) is superior to say an HD 2400 (PCI-E) because of how fast things process on the card.  It will bottleneck some (and you might not see the full value of performance as compared to an HD 4800 (PCI-E) in an otherwise identical system) but as an alternative to spending several hundred dollars, spending $70 for a new GPU is a viable solution.

To reiterate my original point though: just because it's AGP doesn't make it inferior because I've done just fine with mine.

Modifié par JironGhrad, 11 novembre 2009 - 08:23 .

[Gorath Alpha]

Right now, the only everyday benefit that PCIe has over the 8X AGP is Crossfire / SLI -- and those setups are anything but common.  Single card, single GPU, the level of traffic across the busses just isn't soaking up bandwidth while we are playing games.  I suppose that there are activities, for which workstation graphics cards are being used (the same silicon in the chips, but with different BIOSes) that are seeing everyday benefit from PCIe's overall superior technology, and mind you, I never said that AGP was ever anything but a sort of "kludge" stuck on top of PCI, and is both excessively complicated electrically, as well as costly, when compared to either kind of PCIe. 

Like any technology, including multiple processor cores, the hardware is way out in front of the software.  I consider quad CPUs to be a money soak right now, and I have dual cores by preference, and would have them, I think, if the price differential was more reasonable than it is.  I consider Crossfire and SLI to be similarly (although in a different manner) a poor value. 

Because I have to watch what I spend on my hobbies (and the machines are more at the core of my interest than the software), I want the most performance I can get for my few available dollars, and I tend to try to "sell" other gamers & hardware hobbyists on that philosophy. 

The cold, hard facts are that very few of the old AGP-equipped PCs are worth spending very much on.  You can literally buy PCs of similar level for $75, complete, at various thrift shops in the major metropolitant areas, which puts a practical limit on spending.  For this particular game player here, I ended up naming an HD 3650 for only $65 because the $80 HD 4650 was too much to spend.  The $80 HD 4650 isn't doing anything in SLI, it's just too expensive to put into a dead end PC.  But I can't FORCE my opinion, and I don't care to fling Gflops and whatnot back and forth.  Toms hardware's benches suit me fine. 

Gorath
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[Gorath Alpha]

"Duped"  --  the software never admitted to having posted it! 

Dang & Blast -- no "Delete" options, either!

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 11 novembre 2009 - 08:53 .