171 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

No easy third ways out.

The biggest choices actually meaning something: not being forced to metagame a choice in order to play future content without messing up the story.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 13 septembre 2010 - 09:43 .

[pChar]

My near perfect dark fantasy game would be The Witcher (I'm a huge fan and cant wait for sequel).So if The Witcher and Dragon age:origins had a child I would call it 'Perfect Dark(but not too dark) Fantasy with Some Light in it Like a Pot of Gold in the End of a Rainbow'.

Which doesnt make any sense but I really have to go to sleep now.

[SoleSong]

Shiroukai wrote...

SoleSong wrote...

Do I need to play a "dark" game... NO... would not buy one either... nor a horror game... I can not see what I should learn or beeing uplifted, having a great time, by that.
I think I would look in wonder on somebody wanting game like that... hope nobody think I am diskriminating by thinking like that.
If "dark" only meen some small sex like in Origin, we are not speaking about the same thing.

Kinda odd you bought DA:O then though, cause the devs portrait it as a Dark Fantasy (which in the end wasn't really so, but we allready discussed it on that matter).

It is your right to think that... but I was not so presise in my wording as I should have been.
Somebody wantet a mature game vith all kinds of hell not normaly done by ordenary peoples... like having sex with a dead , or se somebody beeing killed on real... like some do.
Origen I would consider to be quite normal what peoples do.

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

SoleSong wrote...

Do I need to play a "dark" game... NO... would not buy one either... nor a horror game... I can not see what I should learn or beeing uplifted, having a great time, by that.
I think I would look in wonder on somebody wanting game like that... hope nobody think I am diskriminating by thinking like that.
If "dark" only meen some small sex like in Origin, we are not speaking about the same thing.

Dark or mature don't necessarily mean "horror".
It just mean that there's no good and no evil like in fables with knights without fear and crazy wizards who wants to destroy the world without any logical reason. It also mean that if you do something you have both good and consequences, and that you have to deal with ethical and moral ambiguity in most of the situation.

[SoleSong]

What I meen is that a game dont need to mirror life in all its horror tu be fun to play... it can be realistic up to a point. Where that border go is up to us all.

So what I am saying, I like suspence, some realisme, tears and anger, sorrow... feelings in a game... but not sitting looking at hard porn or sadistic manerism... for 50+ houers.

[foodstuffs]

I think the Vampire: The Masqurade video games and the Hellraiser movies are closest to what I would like in a "Dark Fantasy." Hellraiser is for more about the concept of morality than is immediately visible.



I have to go for now so I can't finish my thoughts on this, hopefuly later.

[FarplaneGuide]

As for easy ways out, I don't really like the idea of making it more dark by

restricting choices. I mean you can choose to do the dr, you can go to mages

when faced with Connor, but you can also choose not to. And there are reasons

not to, well at least when you don't know what happens later.



So basically in some cases you have a choice of how dark you want the game to be.

If you prefer the story in which you have to choose who will die, well nothing stopping

you to play that way.



Story is "dark" enough in DA for me, but I think the art direction isn't, some

places (like Alienage and Deep Roads) looked too good when compared to their

representation in the story. That I would like to see changed in DA2

[captain.subtle]

foodstuffs wrote...

I think the Vampire: The Masqurade video games and the Hellraiser movies are closest to what I would like in a "Dark Fantasy." Hellraiser is for more about the concept of morality than is immediately visible.

I have to go for now so I can't finish my thoughts on this, hopefuly later.

To quote Vampire: The Masquarade - Bloodlines:

"The World of Darkness is a place where immortal monsters pull the  strings of humanity. Violence and despair are common here. The world  is bleak, but escape is an ever-present commodity - perhaps too  present... "


That is Dark.

Rest is Dork.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 13 septembre 2010 - 09:58 .

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

SoleSong wrote...

What I meen is that a game dont need to mirror life in all its horror tu be fun to play... it can be realistic up to a point. Where that border go is up to us all.
So what I am saying, I like suspence, some realisme, tears and anger, sorrow... feelings in a game... but not sitting looking at hard porn or sadistic manerism... for 50+ houers.

And in fact I think no one here want hard porn from DAO, just more morally ambiguous choices and consequences (possibly with both bonus and malus) and less "everyone happy" situations (like the third choice in Connor's quest... you let him free for some weaks at Redcliffe and when you return nothing changes? Why didn't he continue to kill villagers and everything?).
More mature things in line with the events, not just some rape, sex, psycho or gore without any reasons.

[Dark Lilith]

I'm totally up for a game which depicts mans's darker side. I write fantasy/realism stories filled with blood/gore and pain.Also why should sex be treated as taboo? We all have wants,needs,lusts and at times are we not the primal being we truly are? I would love to see a game where bad wins over good or at least have that option,where torture,rape etc,all things in real life from day one on this planet be carried into a game with that aspect but be given a choice!
Frankly I find most games too tame to my liking and found oblivion which was hugely modable to fill that void.Give modders a descent tool kit to mod a game and the ants will crawl out of their nests to fulfill anyone's needs and or desires

Modifié par Dark Lilith, 13 septembre 2010 - 10:00 .

[Ulicus]

Origins, for the most part, didn't live up to the "dark heroic fantasy" thing (especially once the origin stories were over)... largely because it was too "Whedonesque" at times. That's not necessarily a bad thing -- I like the funny, I like the silly -- but if it is going to be repeated to the same extent in DA2 I'd prefer the "dark heroic fantasy" tag be dropped, because it gives a false impression.

I felt that Warden's Fall did a much better job of capturing the "dark fantasy" feel than did the game itself -- and Thedas, as a result, felt much more grounded in "reality".

Well, I say "dark fantasy"... what I guess I really mean is... "low/realistic/gritty fantasy".

Modifié par Ulicus, 13 septembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[captain.subtle]

Dark Lilith wrote...

I'm totally up for a game which depicts mans's darker side. I write fantasy/realism stories filled with blood/gore and pain.Also why should sex be treated as taboo? We all have wants,needs,lusts and at times are we not the primal being we truly are? I would love to see a game where bad wins over good or at least have that option,where torture,rape etc,all things in real life from day one on this planet be carried into a game with that aspect but be given a choice!
Frankly I find most games too tame to my liking and found oblivion which was hugely modable to fill that void.Give modders a descent tool kit to mod a game and the ants will crawl out of their nests to fulfill anyone's needs and or desires

Suddenly I am reminded of My Immortal.

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

foodstuffs wrote...

I think the Vampire: The Masqurade
video games and the Hellraiser movies are closest to what I would like
in a "Dark Fantasy." Hellraiser is for more about the concept of
morality than is immediately visible.

I have to go for now so I can't finish my thoughts on this, hopefuly later.

I wouldn't call VTM - Bloodlines fantasy because of the modern setting, but that game was really great (I played the game years after it went out and so i dind't find any important bugs, btw).
Another good game with no black and white and all that stuff is Alpha Protocol, though it's not fantasy but a modern day rpg (a good one, but not excelent due to some tech and gameplay problems).

FarplaneGuide wrote...

As for easy ways out, I don't really like the idea of making it more dark by
restricting choices. I mean you can choose to do the dr, you can go to mages
when faced with Connor, but you can also choose not to. And there are reasons
not to, well at least when you don't know what happens later.

So basically in some cases you have a choice of how dark you want the game to be.
If you prefer the story in which you have to choose who will die, well nothing stopping
you to play that way.

Story is "dark" enough in DA for me, but I think the art direction isn't, some
places (like Alienage and Deep Roads) looked too good when compared to their
representation in the story. That I would like to see changed in DA2

Thing is: Connor situation doesn't have sense.
You let an abomination completely free to do whatever he want for weeks and then you come back and nothing changed since the last time? He should have continue to slaughter villagers and assembling his army of undeads, maybe even destroy the village or at least killed some NPCs (like Teagan, for example).
You can't always get everything you want, you can of course try to get the "everyone happy" ending in a quest, but that shouldn't work as you imagined most of the times (not always maybe, but often at least). That's not how things work and that's not coherent to the background of the world.

Modifié par Stefanocrpg_rev91, 13 septembre 2010 - 10:09 .

[Mister_Shepard]

Modifié par Mister_Shepard, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Yana Montana]

Ineffable Igor wrote...

I would define dark fantasy as anything that manages to combine realism with the fantastic in a convincing manner. But I'm not picky. If they can put DA2 on a level with DA:O where "darkness" is concerned, I will be satisfied.

I concur. Well said.

[ImoenBaby]

filaminstrel wrote...


Oh, maybe. I thought it was most likely an argument about the idea of a "tank" archetype being unrealistic, as if your enemies would all gravitate toward one dude because he called them a dirty name.

Word.

[Statulos]

I´d say that the best Dark Fantasy setting I have ever seen is the Anno Domini RPG.



The main idea of the game is that once 1000 a.D. arrived, the end of the world become real. Now, everything is ruled by demons and Earth has become Hell. Scattered comunities of christians, jews and muslim live arround the Old World in a constant guerrilla warfare against the forces of Hell. And well... they´re loosing.

[Gorthaur X]

Anarya wrote...

Oh and also, I consider BSG to be pretty dark and "mature", but it has funny and touching moments and a happy ending and I don't think these things make it suddenly not a dark show.

That was the most disappointing and depressing ending ever. CAVEMEN.

That being said, Dragon Age seems most similar to Joss Whedon's shows in terms of how it combines lighthearted humor with the occasional creepy and effed up moment. Not quite as dark as Angel, but not too far from Buffy or Firefly, IMO.

And that's about as dark as I need the franchise to be.

Modifié par Gorthaur X, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:06 .

[Altima Darkspells]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

No easy third ways out.

The biggest choices actually meaning something: not being forced to metagame a choice in order to play future content without messing up the story.

Agreed.  In general, the storyline missions were too 'happy' for it to be dark.  Nature of the Beast, in particular, had a perfect set-up between, basically, two innocent factions killing each other off, and then comes in the third option to ruin the day...

A Paragon of Her Kind actually did it right, I feel.  Not only is there the choice between the sadistic yet effective dictator or the honorable weakling, but there was the Anvil choice as well.  For one hundred years the dwarves were protected by their golems, and when the golems failed, they were overrun to a mere two cities, both isolated from each other.  However, that protection came with a price--innocent, low caste dwarves and political enemies were used to fuel golem creation.  However, is that any different from what the Grey Wardens do?

In the end, there can be a happy/decent ending to a 'dark' setting, but you sure as hell have to earn it.  It doesn't just randomly fall into your lap.  And sometimes, you aren't even around to enjoy the 'happy' ending.

[The Big Nothing]

Let us kill animals and children!

[ErichHartmann]

The opposite of "Dark" Fantasy is every Disney movie that butchered fairy tales.  Purging the violence and unsavory elements to make them live happily ever after.  Yes, DA has some weird happy moments but you are free to ignore them.  I helped the Werewolves slaughter the Dalish Elves.  Didn't want a everybody wins outcome.  But I don't want the game to be so cynical that no outcome is good.       
 

[Ulicus]

Eh? Disney is awesome. Sho your damn mouth.

Modifié par Ulicus, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[ErichHartmann]

Ulicus wrote...

Eh? Disney is awesome. Sho your damn mouth.

Nah, Pixar is awesome.