171 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulicus]

Pixar is awesome in a different way. Old school Disney, however, remains badass.

[Saibh]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Eh? Disney is awesome. Sho your damn mouth.

Nah, Pixar is awesome.

Agreed, but Disney comes out with good stuff, too. And what Pixar is doing now totally doesn't eradicate what Disney did then.

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

Khraum wrote...

For me dark fantasy means:

No inhibitions on content: The game should be willing to explore anything (including torture, rape, incest or what some of the posts have raised) and to do so in a shocking way IF IT SUITS THE STORY. I'm not saying that it should do these thing for the sake of being sick, but that if it fits a much darker theme, the game should use it. 

Playing the game should give you strong emotions and a maybe sense of shock and personal torment, and deliberate try to push you to do certain things. Like for the city elf origins in DAO, your warden's feelings towards humans and some of the actions you want to take later in the game could have been much different if Vaugh had actually raped you.

No heroic/happy endings. All gains you make in your player's life should be followed with some loss. Finishing the game should not give you a sense of relief and being a hero, but some discomfort for the decisions you made,

Total moral ambiguity in decisions: There shouldn't be moral ambiguity in a few decisions like in DAO, but all choices should have good and bad consequences, and doing what seems good might in one instance might have a bad outcome the next.

Much darker characters, including companions. This includes some who are "really" evil and even psychologically disturbed.

Not interested.

[Maverick827]

I wish I knew someone young so I didn't have to feel weird when watching Pixar/Disney/etc. cartoons.

[Altima Darkspells]

Ulicus wrote...

Eh? Disney is awesome. Sho your damn mouth.

I actually thought of that exact scene (and video) when you said this.

Of course, Disney has brought us, erm, other things.

Of course, the only place you can find accurate portrayals of fey is in Disney movies, too, so.

[Kileyan]

As many have said, there could be a few more hard choices, with no easy middle choices.



That said, would not enjoy or likely play a game designed so that no matter what choices you made, no matter how hard you tried to do the right thing, it all led to misery and despair.



I would feel like I was playing a tabletop D&D game with a sadistic dungeon master who didn't want to tell a story with the players, but just wanted to get one over on them or "beat" them, no matter what they did.



I guess I am saying, what is the point of playing. I wouldn't feel the weight of my decisions if no matter what I did, it turned out bad. I'd more or less just shrug or flip a coin for decisions, so that I could move on to the combat and try to skip the cutscenes or story elements in such a world.

[Saibh]

Maverick827 wrote...

I wish I knew someone young so I didn't have to feel weird when watching Pixar/Disney/etc. cartoons.

Nephews!  An excuse to see Toy Story 3, twice!

[Morroian]

Examples of literary dark fantasy to me are book series like A Song of Ice and Fire (which has already been mentioned) but also Steven Erikson's Malazan series which I think is better than asoiaf. Glen Cook is another slightly older writer who practically wrote the template for dark fantasy with his Black Company and Dread Empire series.



With DAO I liked the hard choices but what I'd like to see is more consequences which directly impact the player.

[Maverick827]

Saibh wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

I wish I knew someone young so I didn't have to feel weird when watching Pixar/Disney/etc. cartoons.

Nephews!  An excuse to see Toy Story 3, twice!

I'm terrible with kids anyway, so I assume it's better for society that I don't know any.  I have to bear this cross (of not being able to watch kids movies) for the good of everyone.

[Malanek]

IMO what Bioware meant by it was that it would be darker than the DnD settings they had for BG. And thats all they meant by it. Mature themes which may not have made the cut in something aiming for a PG or 13 rating. Less rainbows, pixies and unicorns. More blood magic, gore, treachary and sex. I never got the impression they were aiming for a depressing or horror storyline. And of course just because they have more of some things than a lighter setting doesn't mean they come to dominate the storyline, just that they can be used where appropriate.

Modifié par Malanek999, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:48 .

[Rubbish Hero]

I very much think a 1993 (released here)  movie called "Ninja Scroll" is the best representation of what I would label "dark" fantasy". It's really about the only anime movie I have seen that is actually jaw droopingly good.  All other anime suck in comparison.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[ErichHartmann]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I very much think a 1993 movie called "Ninja Scroll" is the best representation of what I would label "dark" fantasy". It's really about the only anime movie I have seen that is actually jaw droopingly good.  All other anime suck in comparison.

(Don't know why I'm bothering)

You have very poor taste if you think Ninja Scroll set the standard for anything. /carry on

[Rubbish Hero]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I very much think a 1993 movie called "Ninja Scroll" is the best representation of what I would label "dark" fantasy". It's really about the only anime movie I have seen that is actually jaw droopingly good.  All other anime suck in comparison.

(Don't know why I'm bothering)

You have very poor taste if you think Ninja Scroll set the standard for anything. /carry on

www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ninja-scroll/

People who are more important and generally speaking, better human beings with credibility agree with my excellent and completely correct factually based opinion, as does anyone with common sense. Please, cease the bitter responces, accept once again, I am correct and let's move on.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:03 .

[Morroian]

You need to read some books.

[darkshadow136]

Dark Lilith wrote...

I'm totally up for a game which depicts mans's darker side. I write fantasy/realism stories filled with blood/gore and pain.Also why should sex be treated as taboo? We all have wants,needs,lusts and at times are we not the primal being we truly are? I would love to see a game where bad wins over good or at least have that option,where torture,rape etc,all things in real life from day one on this planet be carried into a game with that aspect but be given a choice!
Frankly I find most games too tame to my liking and found oblivion which was hugely modable to fill that void.Give modders a descent tool kit to mod a game and the ants will crawl out of their nests to fulfill anyone's needs and or desires

I agree. I believe a game that started heading in the right direction as far as a wide range of choices and depth into a characters personality whether good or evil was The Witcher. If Bioware could elaborate on what those game developers did, and as Lilith said creater a better toolkit so modders could have an easier time breating mods it would be perfect.

[Wishpig]

I would say the Witcher is my definition of "dark" fantasy. To me, to be dark fantasy, the franchise in question must be more depressing and terrible then reality... which is already depressing and terrible. A world where there are next to no happy endings.

The Warhammer franchise is another perfect example.

I wouldn't consider Dragon Age dark fantasy.

Modifié par Wishpig, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:05 .

[foodstuffs]

All the references to The Witcher are making me think about it. It's been a while since I played the game so my memory of it isn't exactly strong. From what I recall, The Witcher was still about Good vs Evil, it just wasn't pinheadedly so, where every dialog option was either "Uhg, me good, me smash evil!", or, "Uhg, me evil, me smash good!." In other words, with a few exceptions it was pretty obvios what was right or wrong, however The Witcher attempted to get past telling you what was good or what was evil. The Witcher actually made you think, especially about the consequences of your actions, more so than many (most?) other games.

EDIT:  I decided to italicize and embolden that because I think that was the games greatest strength, and worthy of note.

Another edit:  I recall a line in The Witcher, though not correctly, something to the effect of "I've learned to recognize the man in the monster, as well as the monster in the man."  I like this because even if a creature is generally recognized as evil, it doesn't necessarily have to be.   It also states we all have our own monsters within us, some let it bloom more than others, while others struggle against it.

Modifié par foodstuffs, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:42 .

[ImoenBaby]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I very much think a 1993 (released here)  movie called "Ninja Scroll" is the best representation of what I would label "dark" fantasy". It's really about the only anime movie I have seen that is actually jaw droopingly good.  All other anime suck in comparison.

Hahaha! Rubbish, you syntactilly confusing...person! You and I have something in common!

We've both watched Ninja Scroll.


p.s. I see what you did there.

[wwwwowwww]

I haven't read all 4 pages, but I will give my version of a Dark fantasy.



First off the feeling of life or death must loom in the air. The feeling that around every turn you may find the end of your existence. A type of despair/evil/fear that is prevalent in everything without exactly know what or who is responsible. One where political intrigue, guild wars, and religious battles are happening everywhere, with no one really knowing what is driving it all. You have to deal with slavery, plague, and true disdain and maltreatment of either a certain race (DA would be elves) or class of people.

One where when walking through city streets and allies you actually fear for your life, because of the state of mind people are in. One where even with all the political backstabbing, guild wars, and religious battles an even bigger war looms on the horizon and there truly seems to be no hope to making things better.

[foodstuffs]

wwwwowwww wrote...

I haven't read all 4 pages, but I will give my version of a Dark fantasy.

First off the feeling of life or death must loom in the air. The feeling that around every turn you may find the end of your existence. A type of despair/evil/fear that is prevalent in everything without exactly know what or who is responsible. One where political intrigue, guild wars, and religious battles are happening everywhere, with no one really knowing what is driving it all. You have to deal with slavery, plague, and true disdain and maltreatment of either a certain race (DA would be elves) or class of people.
One where when walking through city streets and allies you actually fear for your life, because of the state of mind people are in. One where even with all the political backstabbing, guild wars, and religious battles an even bigger war looms on the horizon and there truly seems to be no hope to making things better.

I think you described Vampire: The Masquerade almost perfectly, particularly for vampires.

[wwwwowwww]

foodstuffs wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

I haven't read all 4 pages, but I will give my version of a Dark fantasy.

First off the feeling of life or death must loom in the air. The feeling that around every turn you may find the end of your existence. A type of despair/evil/fear that is prevalent in everything without exactly know what or who is responsible. One where political intrigue, guild wars, and religious battles are happening everywhere, with no one really knowing what is driving it all. You have to deal with slavery, plague, and true disdain and maltreatment of either a certain race (DA would be elves) or class of people.
One where when walking through city streets and allies you actually fear for your life, because of the state of mind people are in. One where even with all the political backstabbing, guild wars, and religious battles an even bigger war looms on the horizon and there truly seems to be no hope to making things better.

I think you described Vampire: The Masquerade almost perfectly, particularly for vampires.

lol interesting since I've never played the game or even looked at it.

Was it a good dark fantasy? lol

[packardbell]

dark fantasy:



lots of murder, treachery, torture and many other unpleasant things.

[Wishpig]

foodstuffs wrote...

All the references to The Witcher are making me think about it. It's been a while since I played the game so my memory of it isn't exactly strong. From what I recall, The Witcher was still about Good vs Evil, it just wasn't pinheadedly so, where every dialog option was either "Uhg, me good, me smash evil!", or, "Uhg, me evil, me smash good!." In other words, with a few exceptions it was pretty obvios what was right or wrong, however The Witcher attempted to get past telling you what was good or what was evil. The Witcher actually made you think, especially about the consequences of your actions, more so than many (most?) other games.

EDIT:  I decided to italicize and embolden that because I think that was the games greatest strength, and worthy of note.

Another edit:  I recall a line in The Witcher, though not correctly, something to the effect of "I've learned to recognize the man in the monster, as well as the monster in the man."  I like this because even if a creature is generally recognized as evil, it doesn't necessarily have to be.   It also states we all have our own monsters within us, some let it bloom more than others, while others struggle against it.

It must have been a long time because that very poorly describes the witcher. It's almost like you never played it at all...
You really really need to play it agian.

Modifié par Wishpig, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:01 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

ImoenBaby wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I very much think a 1993 (released here)  movie called "Ninja Scroll" is the best representation of what I would label "dark" fantasy". It's really about the only anime movie I have seen that is actually jaw droopingly good.  All other anime suck in comparison.

Hahaha! Rubbish, you syntactilly confusing...person! You and I have something in common!

We've both watched Ninja Scroll.


p.s. I see what you did there.

Ninja Scroll is a pretty awesome "dark" fantasy anime. I was always partial to the first short story of Memories as well, I think it was called Magnetic Rose, a "dark" sci-fi horror. The live action movie Event Horizon (which came out two years later) kind of borrowed from it's atmosphere I felt, though the plots are completely different.


I agree that the term "dark" is overused since it's a matter of perspective of every person. Some people can never be satisfied till all the main characters are abused emotionally, physically, have to cannibalize their loved ones and then sacrifice the object of their true desire only to find out later it was futile before it is considered "dark." For me, a darkly serious theme here or there is enough or just a backdrop of a looming threat where the plot doesn't degenerate into constant puns and slapstick humor. 

DA:O was pretty much on target for me, though it could of been more serious at points. That largely was remedied by swapping out Alistair and especially Zevran (and I do like the characters, yes...even Zevran). It's always a toss-up whenever a game is advertised as "dark." Kind of an irresistible cliche for advertising folks to brand their product.