114 réponses à ce sujet

[jojon2se]

Durasteel provides a perfect description of the origin of the reapers, as far as I'm concerned and it should be read metaphorically: what is a "soul", other than the sum of your thoughts? "priests" can easily be swapped for "politicians" -- still; don't underestimate the persistance of superstition.

Most of the theories above are not mutually exclusive and could all be aspects of the whole truth. In another thread, one forumer ("Nefarious Nebula", IIRC), speculated that the reapers are actually limiting energy use, in order to delay the heat deat of the galaxy and that the primary function of the mass effect relays (insta-travel being a neat sideeffect, or vice versa), is to tether it, for this very purpose (think of it as holding onto a wound up spring, so that it doesn't release all its tension without any payload).

Why? -To buy time. Time to exist, time to come up with a more permanent solution to the heat death problem (either by themselves, or by one of the organic lifeforms cropping up every cycle), time for a dispatched mass relay to reach another galaxy.

They hold us accountable for our consumption of potential, in the same way a farmer might hold weed accountable for the impoverishment of his soil. We are myriads of little ants running about independently, seemingly without organisation - nothing they feel they can reason with, apparently. Still, weeds *will* crop up, spontaneously and needs to be rooted out periodically and not leaving your fields open to growth will never yield any useful crop.

[Kreid]

*MASS EFFECT RETRIBUTION SPOILERS*
I haven't read the book myself yet, but it seems there's a quote by the Reapers:
"We are the keepers of the cycle. The
creators and the destroyers. Your existence is a flicker, a spark. We
can extinguish it-or we can preserve it. Submit to us and we can make
you immortal."
I think the logical conclusion is that they think that making new Reapers is the only way to keep the galactic civilizations "alive" forever instead of losing them to time and self destruction.

Modifié par Creid-X, 15 septembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Archontor]

FouCapitan wrote...

We're a farm to them, plain and simple. The Reapers use the galaxy as their own personal resource and reproduction stock. They believe they are the ultimate be all, end all of existence. They are haughty, stuck up robots with deserved superiority complex.

When Sovereign says we are "fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding." he says so in the same notion that you wouldn't expect a sandwich to understand why you're going to devour it.

They're "protecting" us from what they deem a pointless existence. Nothing more.

to be fair my sandwich never had his ship missle me through the chest  and more seriously you didnt realy present a counter theory or evidence for your arguement

[Archontor]

Creid-X wrote...

*MASS EFFECT RETRIBUTION SPOILERS*
I haven't read the book myself yet, but it seems there's a quote by the Reapers:
"We are the keepers of the cycle. The
creators and the destroyers. Your existence is a flicker, a spark. We
can extinguish it-or we can preserve it. Submit to us and we can make
you immortal."
I think the logical conclusion is that they think that making new Reapers is the only way to keep the galactic civilizations "alive" forever instead of losing them to time and self destruction.

it still leaves my theory as plausible espescialy the " Wecan extinguish it-or we can preserve it. Submit to us and we can make you immortal." it suggests that the eradication is the punishment and reapification the reward though this dosent make your theory wrong indeed they could mesh quite nicely

[Lord_Tirian]

Creid-X wrote...

I think the logical conclusion is that they think that making new Reapers is the only way to keep the galactic civilizations "alive" forever instead of losing them to time and self destruction.

Though considering the way Sovereign (and Harbinger) talk to us, it's completely reasonable that "living on" is about the same as the sandwich you just ate "lives on" as part of you.

Of course, I'm pretty much seeing the Reapers as Space-Mecha-Cthulhu talking to a sandwich. Us, that is.

In fact, I prefer it that way - the Reapers would much better if there is a mystique to their motivations. Spelling out why they would want to do this/that would render them very human and hence less intriguing.

Modifié par Lord_Tirian, 15 septembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[wepeel_]

Narosian wrote...

wepeel_ wrote...

The point is that if the beings in the galaxy aren't aware that using mass effect field has that kind of effect, they can hardly be held accountable for it - especially when the reapers have left them a communication system completely dependant on the mass effect itself.

actually as someone else pointed out they can still be held accountable.  If you commit a crime but dont know what you did was wrong its still a crime, ignorance isnt a valid excuse.  Taking something from the bible, if you commit a sin but don't know its a sin, that doesn't mean your not accountable for it.

Well - if the reapers didn't want us using mass effect fields, then why did they leave us the relays? If they intended it to be a test of our morale, it will only be meaningful as such if we are aware of the consequences of our actions.

To clarify, in this case the OP suggested that the reapers were punishing the civilizations of the galaxy because they had, according to his theory, indicated a willingness to destroy stars through the usage of mass effect fields.

So, first of all, it seems likely that given the presence of mass relays, any species curious enough to develop spaceflight and encounter a mass relay will eventually use it. This will invariably create mass effect fields, and thus, according to the theory, contribute to the hastened demise of the stars.

If this then angers the reapers and they decide that life in the galaxy must be eradicated because of it, they either:

a) act to protect the stars from being messed with - but if that's their worry, then why leave the mass relays out there to begin with? Doesn't make sense. Sovereign itself stated that the relays are there to be encountered, used and direct the development of galactic civilization.

act to punish the species in question because by using the mass relay they have shown that they are careless and intent on destroying the stars of the galaxy through mass effect field usage; even though they're unaware of this effect. This doesn't make sense either. It'd be like leaving food for a mouse trapped in a maze, and then kill the mouse because he finds the food and eats it. I mean, what else would he do? The mouse can't possibly know that by eating the food he slowly starts to destroy the maze he lives in; he just follows his instincts. And like option a), it would be contradictory since again, Sovereign stated that the mass relays were there to be used.


Got nothing more to say about this theory now, it's just all wrong. And if it turns out to not be all wrong in ME3 then that is due to some really poor writing by BioWare.

[Mobius-Silent]

From here:

"You will surrender your potential against the growing void"

To me that sound like the Reapers created a problem and can't fix it. I'd guess that Reapers aren't very good at new, creative thought and that they are actually a "snapshot" of a species, with no capacity for growth. Hence they cultivate organic "raw material" in the hope that one of the new Reapers is smart enough to solve the problem.

I'd agree that mass effect fields result in dark energy and dark energy can kill stars and due to the _massive_ mass effect cores in each Reaper I'd guess they stay outside the galaxy to minimise damage during the "growing" phase.

Maybe that's why the relays are there, to speed up the technological development of the organics _without_ letting them develop personal (ship-bound) mass-relay drives and wreck the galaxy before the Reapers wake up.

I'm also wondering if the Prothians actually solved the problem and have the data hidden somewhere. It would be the ultimate defeat for the Reapers who probably believe that you have to be a Reaper to reach the pinnacle of your species, not believing a collection of non-unified beings could solve the problem (This might also cause the Geth to wonder if full-unification is the best course of action)

After all, with the problem solved, the bulk of the Reaper force may simply leave.

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 15 septembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[Mir5]

Archontor wrote...

whilst there is corroborating evidence on earth today yor statement was slightly insulting to theists and whilst i agree the moderators may not

I honestly hope there's a huge dose of sarcasm in that sentence. I have no problem with spirituality as long as it doesn't contradict logic.

[Archontor]

Mir5 wrote...

Archontor wrote...

whilst there is corroborating evidence on earth today yor statement was slightly insulting to theists and whilst i agree the moderators may not

I honestly hope there's a huge dose of sarcasm in that sentence. I have no problem with spirituality as long as it doesn't contradict logic.

i never said you had an issue or that i dissagreed with what you said (btw i do agree) im just saying the moderators may dislike it

Modifié par Archontor, 15 septembre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Archontor]

wepeel_ wrote...

Narosian wrote...

wepeel_ wrote...

The point is that if the beings in the galaxy aren't aware that using mass effect field has that kind of effect, they can hardly be held accountable for it - especially when the reapers have left them a communication system completely dependant on the mass effect itself.

actually as someone else pointed out they can still be held accountable.  If you commit a crime but dont know what you did was wrong its still a crime, ignorance isnt a valid excuse.  Taking something from the bible, if you commit a sin but don't know its a sin, that doesn't mean your not accountable for it.

Well - if the reapers didn't want us using mass effect fields, then why did they leave us the relays? If they intended it to be a test of our morale, it will only be meaningful as such if we are aware of the consequences of our actions.

To clarify, in this case the OP suggested that the reapers were punishing the civilizations of the galaxy because they had, according to his theory, indicated a willingness to destroy stars through the usage of mass effect fields.

So, first of all, it seems likely that given the presence of mass relays, any species curious enough to develop spaceflight and encounter a mass relay will eventually use it. This will invariably create mass effect fields, and thus, according to the theory, contribute to the hastened demise of the stars.

If this then angers the reapers and they decide that life in the galaxy must be eradicated because of it, they either:

a) act to protect the stars from being messed with - but if that's their worry, then why leave the mass relays out there to begin with? Doesn't make sense. Sovereign itself stated that the relays are there to be encountered, used and direct the development of galactic civilization.

act to punish the species in question because by using the mass relay they have shown that they are careless and intent on destroying the stars of the galaxy through mass effect field usage; even though they're unaware of this effect. This doesn't make sense either. It'd be like leaving food for a mouse trapped in a maze, and then kill the mouse because he finds the food and eats it. I mean, what else would he do? The mouse can't possibly know that by eating the food he slowly starts to destroy the maze he lives in; he just follows his instincts. And like option a), it would be contradictory since again, Sovereign stated that the mass relays were there to be used.


Got nothing more to say about this theory now, it's just all wrong. And if it turns out to not be all wrong in ME3 then that is due to some really poor writing by BioWare.

ok first off im not saying that mass effect feilds inherently damadge stars im saying that a consciesce well thought out effort with a scientific aprouch is required to damadge or destroy a star second they may need a spescies that has a spescific mindset that would propel them into space but not to mess with a star besides if someone knew full well that they would be destroying a valuabe irreplaceable resource that will have consequences beyond their controll then they're most likely going to be looked down upon even by contempory ethics

[Lvl20DM]

Zan51 wrote...

I want to know how, if the galaxy has been populated over and over and wiped every 50,000 years when they are all at a space faring and resource hunting level, Shepard can still go surveying planets and get so many resources from all over. It should all be used up by now!

And before anyone says they regenerate, no they don't. For instance, we are due to run out of Helium in 25 years and it will then be gone from Earth forever. As for new solar systems being made, I think they take a lot longer than 50,000 years to happen!

The galaxy is vast. Even with the Relay Network (which is expanding as they find new ones), it seems that the galaxy is mostly unmapped and unexplored. We still haven't managed to completely deplete our own planet - with millions of planets that have probably never even been touched, resources should be plentiful. Many of the planets surveyed have never had a colony on them, and any mining operation would be limited in nature.

The Reapers seem to think that they are doing us a favor. This could be based on an alien philosophy, a tangible threat, or some combination of the two. Understanding why they do what they do will probably be a central plot-point in ME3. My guess it is that, and not military action, that will ultimately result in the Reapers being defeated.

[Mark B]

I think super beings with a god complex really don't need a reason apart from, we can and we will.



As for the dark energy causing suns to age due to mass effect relay use, surely the sun in a system with a relay would be the likliest to be effected, maybe the citadel one due to the higher volume of traffic?

Finally, from what I remember from school, aren't dying suns the source of all heavy elements? So a few extra super novas here and there would eventually mean a greater abundance of rare elements for use by the reapers.

[Archontor]

Mark B wrote...

I think super beings with a god complex really don't need a reason apart from, we can and we will.

As for the dark energy causing suns to age due to mass effect relay use, surely the sun in a system with a relay would be the likliest to be effected, maybe the citadel one due to the higher volume of traffic?
Finally, from what I remember from school, aren't dying suns the source of all heavy elements? So a few extra super novas here and there would eventually mean a greater abundance of rare elements for use by the reapers.

Whilst yes stars do give out dense elements if they go supernova but they oonly go supernova if they're espescialy energetic or large as i recall otherwise they just keep condensing also black holes are  involved in some way after a super nova generally black holes are bad . But besides all that any way you look at it the end result would destroy numerous planets in the proceess in most systems and considering that sovereign was able to land on eden prime they may need planet's themselves for something.
 
As ive stated multiple times above you most likely need to make a focussed scientific effort to damadge a star

[Mark B]

Archontor I agree, the engergy required to have an effect on a star would be massive and if it's origin was mass relays, I'm pretty sure one of the many races using them may have noticed this vast discharge in their attempts to study them, so I think Haestrom is the result of something else entirely.

[Mallissin]

It's so nice to see the same discussions replayed from months ago, with new people taking credit for old discoveries and the argument playing out the same way.



Seems like the Reaper culling MIGHT BE TO STOP THESE THREADS!

[GnusmasTHX]

Archontor wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Seeing as how they're the largest contributors to global warm-... Err, dark energy excess and deliberately guide other races into using mass effect technology, it would seem counterproductive.

i posted just above me a reason why this theory is not a global warming allegory

It was a joke.

Your first post has Wraith's theory that the Reapers cull advanced civilizations because their use of dark energy adversely affects suns. The whole reason advanced civilizations use mass effect technology, and thereby produce dark energy as a byproduct is because the Reaper's planned for us to do so, at least according to Sovereign. This is counterproductive. 

[Flamesz]

Lord_Tirian wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I think the logical conclusion is that they think that making new Reapers is the only way to keep the galactic civilizations "alive" forever instead of losing them to time and self destruction.

Though considering the way Sovereign (and Harbinger) talk to us, it's completely reasonable that "living on" is about the same as the sandwich you just ate "lives on" as part of you.

Of course, I'm pretty much seeing the Reapers as Space-Mecha-Cthulhu talking to a sandwich. Us, that is.

In fact, I prefer it that way - the Reapers would much better if there is a mystique to their motivations. Spelling out why they would want to do this/that would render them very human and hence less intriguing.

Others, like me however would see it as BioWare being lazy and not giving the Reapers a motivation and that they are just mindless killing machines.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Mark B wrote...

Archontor I agree, the engergy required to have an effect on a star would be massive and if it's origin was mass relays, I'm pretty sure one of the many races using them may have noticed this vast discharge in their attempts to study them, so I think Haestrom is the result of something else entirely.

Same here - I have a suspicion that it might have something to do with the Geth making a weapon to fight the reapers somehow, After all it was Geth that showed up at Haestrom and nowhere is it confirmed that these Geth were the heretic Geth - Also it was Geth that showed up on those planets that has suffered sudden climate shifts (OR game + Hammerhead pack) so one could wonder what they are trying to do. 

[Elyvern]

I'm just wondering....if there was at any point in ME2 where Harbinger says he's from the same faction as Sovereign? What if the reapers we fought in both games are actually from different factions? Sovereign at least made it clear that the reapers will return every 50k years to harvest sentient races, what if the collectors and harbingers are actually part of another group hoping to preserve sentient races or at least are in opposites to Sovereign instead?

[Anacronian Stryx]

Flamesz wrote...

Lord_Tirian wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

I think the logical conclusion is that they think that making new Reapers is the only way to keep the galactic civilizations "alive" forever instead of losing them to time and self destruction.

Though considering the way Sovereign (and Harbinger) talk to us, it's completely reasonable that "living on" is about the same as the sandwich you just ate "lives on" as part of you.

Of course, I'm pretty much seeing the Reapers as Space-Mecha-Cthulhu talking to a sandwich. Us, that is.

In fact, I prefer it that way - the Reapers would much better if there is a mystique to their motivations. Spelling out why they would want to do this/that would render them very human and hence less intriguing.

Others, like me however would see it as BioWare being lazy and not giving the Reapers a motivation and that they are just mindless killing machines.

Well in this is think that Bioware has painted themselves in a corner, No reason given at this point will feel satisfactory and in the same vein no matter how victory is achieved in the end of ME3 it will feel deux ex machima.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Elyvern wrote...

I'm just wondering....if there was at any point in ME2 where Harbinger says he's from the same faction as Sovereign? What if the reapers we fought in both games are actually from different factions? Sovereign at least made it clear that the reapers will return every 50k years to harvest sentient races, what if the collectors and harbingers are actually part of another group hoping to preserve sentient races or at least are in opposites to Sovereign instead?

I think the "beings of light" at Klencory might fill that function better - Something like being the Vorlons to the Shadows(reapers).

[Flamesz]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

I'm just wondering....if there was at any point in ME2 where Harbinger says he's from the same faction as Sovereign? What if the reapers we fought in both games are actually from different factions? Sovereign at least made it clear that the reapers will return every 50k years to harvest sentient races, what if the collectors and harbingers are actually part of another group hoping to preserve sentient races or at least are in opposites to Sovereign instead?

I think the "beings of light" at Klencory might fill that function better - Something like being the Vorlons to the Shadows(reapers).

Wow, that's quite interesting. Perhaps we will go there and help the Volus in ME3?

[jojon2se]

One deus ex machina, which I would be happy to accept, would be the delivering of a solution, to the problem driving the reapers' actions, not too unlike the way Shepard keeps handing T'Soni giftwrapped info, after she's been working hard for years, trying to uncover that same info "the honest way".

Say the reapers are doing this whole thing in order to find a way to live indefinitley, which they can't because of entropy - their last unsolved question and say a team of the finest Salarian, Asari, Human, etc. scientists came up with a way and presented it to them. Would it then be possible to reason with them? Could they be convinced to leave us alone, once their motivation is fulfilled?

[Anacronian Stryx]

Flamesz wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

I'm just wondering....if there was at any point in ME2 where Harbinger says he's from the same faction as Sovereign? What if the reapers we fought in both games are actually from different factions? Sovereign at least made it clear that the reapers will return every 50k years to harvest sentient races, what if the collectors and harbingers are actually part of another group hoping to preserve sentient races or at least are in opposites to Sovereign instead?

I think the "beings of light" at Klencory might fill that function better - Something like being the Vorlons to the Shadows(reapers).

Wow, that's quite interesting. Perhaps we will go there and help the Volus in ME3?

Knowing Mass effect i would guess that we go there to wipe out this volus army of mercenaries and then take the secrets for ourselves

[digby69]

I partially agree with Durasteel. But cut out the religion bit.



Basically a very advanced species either tried for immortallity or was dieing out and tried to save its selve by uploading its mind into a computer program (a bit like the geth) however "they" didn't do too well with there quality controll and basically the progrqam is bugged. A glitch causes the reapers to go a reaping every 50,000 years.



This is classic SciFi.