16775 réponses à ce sujet

[poisonoustea]

The only other person I can see the game smacking you in the head with more about poor leadership skills is Zaeed.

So true. I can't believe it when people send Zaeed as a team leader.

"You, Legion. Down the ducts. Garrus, lead the squad. Thane, Tali. Come with me."
"Wha' 'bout me, Shepard?"
"Zaeed... uh. Why don't you stay with Joker and... no, wait. Just... just stay in your room, ok?"
"..."
"You'll still get paid."
"Sounds fair to me. I'll go clean my ol'rifle. You don't want your gun to get jammed in the middle of a fight... I remember this mission when four of my men got ki-"
"Be sure to lock the door, ok? I'm trying to get an achievement here."

Anyway... As someone stated before, there's a difference between military/tactical leadership and politics. Though it's pretty much clear Tali makes an awful squad leader, I can see her doing pretty well on the Admiralty board; especially if you consider its current members' motivations.

Modifié par poisonoustea, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:14 .

[TheodoricFriede]

I dont know why people keep saying Zaeed gets his team killed. It only happened in one in his stories.

Anyway i believe the fans more or less agree that Tali is not leadership material. Its nice when we can all come together and agree on things.

[TheodoricFriede]

You make a good point about Prazza, but Tali was part of the team that saved the Citadel and she was in charge. If she says trust me this man is a hero, Prazza should have trusted her.

[Someone With Mass]

I think Tali was in charge of the science team on Haestrom. Wouldn't make much sense if someone with little military experience lead the marines too.

[Pacifien]

TheodoricFriede wrote...
You make a good point about Prazza, but Tali was part of the team that saved the Citadel and she was in charge. If she says trust me this man is a hero, Prazza should have trusted her.

Honestly, I don't think I'd have trusted Tali if she told me that the Cerberus dog (get it? get it?) in front of me was her old commander who supposedly died two years ago. Tali worked with Shepard, she has that faith that all of Shepard's crew has in him. But Prazza didn't work with him, he has no reason to take that leap of faith. And I don't think that means he had something against Tali because he wouldn't take her word for it, I just think she was asking quite a lot from a quarian to work with Cerberus.

Of course, even if they were teaming up with Cerberus, still would have been smarter to wait, hope the Cerberus crew gets gunned down by the mech, then get Veetor. But I didn't get the impression Prazza was smart. Or maybe they honestly didn't know that Veetor had a frackin' YMIR mech. I hate that mech on Freedom's Progress.

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I think part of the problem was the way Tali addressed Prazza honestly. She just asserted her authority and shut him down in an abrupt manner without really listening to his concerns or stopping to explain herself. This is one reason I say Tali would not make a good leader. Sometimes putting your foot down is actually the thing that will make people balk. A good leader also has to know when to sweet talk and be manipulative and even when to kiss ass. Tali isn't like that. She's gonna tell you what she thinks, dammit, come hell or high water.

This is a good point. Tali can't seem to be able to assert her authority over the Freedom's Progress team without yelling. If she has to do this all the time, it means they don't trust her to do a good job otherwise. And this is regardless of whether Prazza can trust Cerberus or not (but I do understand where he's coming from there). Factor that in as well, and you have disaster in the works. This isn't to say that Tali is useless, but she's just not made to be in the limelight like that, me no thinks.

I do like the potential storyline about her becoming an Admiral and then having to resign after dissolving the Conclave though. It would make everybody happy.

Concerning Zaeed: he mentions being the only one of his team to make it out alive several times, not just once. His dossier also mentions that he has a habit of being the last man standing. Heck, if you Paragon him during his LM, he says that he's always watched out for himself and nobody else. He may as well have a "DO NOT LET ME LEAD" neon sign above his head.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 22 septembre 2010 - 02:42 .

[Someone With Mass]

Tali simply don't know how to talk with the rest of the squad to gain their trust. Which is not a problem for me, since Shepard can take that role with ease.

What happened to Tali in the past is unfortunate, but it's also a good opportunity to learn something. One day she might be ready to take the position as a squad leader, but until then, she have to trust the others.

Also, I think it has something to do with the quarians' Pilgrimage. I don't think it teaches one to be a natural leader. On the contrary, it teaches them how to survive on their own. To be independent.
Not saying that leadership can't be learned on the Pilgrimage, just that it probably isn't so common.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:09 .

[Eldareus]

mrsph wrote...

I really think Tali is just too young and inexperienced to be put in charge of something as important as the leadership of an entire species.

I agree with this. Tali has the commitment to her people to lead, just lacks managerial  experience to assume such responsiblility. She needs to first become a captain of her own ship and prove she can handle this responsilibity before tackling admiralty responsilbilties.

I willing to give Tali some benefit of the doubt concering the horrible results at freedom's progress and Haelstorm.  Perhaps if Shepard and Cerebus hadn't  arrive at Freedom's progress Prazza and team would have not rushed off and got themselves killed and they would have extracted Veetor with minimal casualties. Haelstrom was either set up as a suidcide type misson or was badly planned from the start either way the Quarians were out outgunned and outnumbered.  Tali knew chances for success at Haelstrom were very low she said as much at Freedom's progress when you ask her to join you the first time.

Modifié par Eldareus, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:09 .

[Nilfalasiel]

mrsph wrote...

Heastrom really can't be blamed fully on Tali. There were only a dozen marines there and they were ambushed by hundreds of geth.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't someone mention that there weren't any geth on Haestrom when they first arrived there? They only showed up later. So while it would've been risky going that deep into geth space, it wasn't necessarily a suicide mission, because they didn't know there would be hundreds of geth jumping all over them.

And yes, I'll also agree with the fact that Tali is too young to be named Admiral anyway. She's 24 in ME2. That's too young by anybody's standards (well, except maybe the salarians).

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:18 .

[Someone With Mass]

mrsph wrote...

Heastrom really can't be blamed fully on Tali. There were only a dozen marines there and they were ambushed by hundreds of geth.

Actually the geth were probably just around fifty. (Platoon = 25-50 soldiers)

I think the real problem was the dropships and all the heavy platforms, like Colossus, Hunters and Primes being dropped everywhere.

And if there's anyone who should be partially blamed, it should be Kal'Reegar, since he was the commander.

But, the operation would probably go to s**t either way.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:24 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

What happened on Freedom's Progress?   Prazza was an idiot. That's what happened.

At Haestrom, the Admiralty had demonstrated a huge lack of basic sense.


Tali might not be a great leader, but she's not to blame for either one.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[timedrake32]

Eldareus wrote...

mrsph wrote...

I really think Tali is just too young and inexperienced to be put in charge of something as important as the leadership of an entire species.

I agree with this. Tali has the commitment to her people to lead, just lacks managerial  experience to assume such responsiblility. She needs to first become a captain of her own ship and prove she can handle this responsilibity before tackling admiralty responsilbilties.

I willing to give Tali some benefit of the doubt concering the horrible results at freedom's progress and Haelstorm.  Perhaps if Shepard and Cerebus hadn't  arrive at Freedom's progress Prazza and team would have not rushed off and got themselves killed and they would have extracted Veetor with minimal casualties. Haelstrom was either set up as a suidcide type misson or was badly planned from the start either way the Quarians were out outgunned and outnumbered.  Tali knew chances for success at Haelstrom were very low she said as much at Freedom's progress when you ask her to join you the first time.

Haelstrom was the stuipedest idea the quarian ever plan.... send a small team of secniest and marines to geth oqupide space in hope ov try to find out why a sun was dieing....... WHY WOULD THEY CARE ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[timedrake32]

Someone With Mass wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Heastrom really can't be blamed fully on Tali. There were only a dozen marines there and they were ambushed by hundreds of geth.

Actually the geth were probably just around fifty. (Platoon = 25-50 soldiers)

I think the real problem was the dropships and all the heavy platforms, like Colossus, Hunters and Primes being dropped everywhere.

And if there's anyone who should be partially blamed, it should be Kal'Reegar, since he was the commander.

But, the operation would probably go to s**t either way.

true like tali said is was rare for quarians to see geth let alone get in to a combat siuation with them and get out of it alive.... maybe that why the marines they sent to the Alriy(can't speel the ships name) got their a**es handed to them......

[Someone With Mass]

A sun prematurely dying in one their former colony systems should be interesting, with the fact that they might reclaim those colonies one day.

[Killjoy Cutter]

timedrake32 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Heastrom really can't be blamed fully on Tali. There were only a dozen marines there and they were ambushed by hundreds of geth.

Actually the geth were probably just around fifty. (Platoon = 25-50 soldiers)

I think the real problem was the dropships and all the heavy platforms, like Colossus, Hunters and Primes being dropped everywhere.

And if there's anyone who should be partially blamed, it should be Kal'Reegar, since he was the commander.

But, the operation would probably go to s**t either way.

true like tali said is was rare for quarians to see geth let alone get in to a combat siuation with them and get out of it alive.... maybe that why the marines they sent to the Alriy(can't speel the ships name) got their a**es handed to them......

Between Praza's squad, the troops we see lounging about when Shep and Tali arive at the fleet, and so on, I'm not so sure that there aren't 15 or 20 non-hackers for every Kal'Reager in the Quarian military.  It doesn't strike me as a very professional or competant organization.

[timedrake32]

mrsph wrote...

Heastrom was founded before the Morning War because the sun was already dying and they wanted to find out why.

At least that is what the codex says.

but i don't think they where thinking right to send a team their just for the sake of finding out why i mean their had to be other reasons posabliy if the geth where really active again....

[timedrake32]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

timedrake32 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Heastrom really can't be blamed fully on Tali. There were only a dozen marines there and they were ambushed by hundreds of geth.

Actually the geth were probably just around fifty. (Platoon = 25-50 soldiers)

I think the real problem was the dropships and all the heavy platforms, like Colossus, Hunters and Primes being dropped everywhere.

And if there's anyone who should be partially blamed, it should be Kal'Reegar, since he was the commander.

But, the operation would probably go to s**t either way.

true like tali said is was rare for quarians to see geth let alone get in to a combat siuation with them and get out of it alive.... maybe that why the marines they sent to the Alriy(can't speel the ships name) got their a**es handed to them......

Between Praza's squad, the troops we see lounging about when Shep and Tali arive at the fleet, and so on, I'm not so sure that there aren't 15 or 20 non-hackers for every Kal'Reager in the Quarian military.  It doesn't strike me as a very professional or competant organization.

that what i'm saying if they planed on taking back their home world from the geth how could they if theri best marines were KIA in a simple op and freedoms....

[Someone With Mass]

Not everyone can be a computer whiz.