16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Imagine the leg bending at the spot where you think it does. Then look at her knee guards. See the problem?

Yeah, her shin guards would be jammed into her thighs if she bends her knees. Not exactly the most pleasant experience.

[Nilfalasiel]

Kikaimegami wrote...

The legs never bend at that point, not in the game, at least. If there's another joint there, then it's literally never used. Sure, biologically, it makes sense to have a secondary joint there (it's obvious that turians and vorcha technically do have a joint after their knee even if the poses never allow for it).

The turian secondary joint is lower down the leg though. Makes sense, since they're digitigrade. There's no joint in the middle of the shin.

I didn't look very closely at vorcha, but they seemed to have their knees backwards, like salarians.

As for curved bones being unrealistic in quarians, 1) we don't know what their bone structure is like, and 2) this is sci-fi: asari pseudo-parthenogenesis isn't logical either.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:41 .

[Someone With Mass]

I'm thinking that BioWare designed their legs without any practical or logical thoughts behind it. They probably just thought it looks cool and alien with curved shins like that.

[TheodoricFriede]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

As for curved bones being unrealistic in quarians, 1) we don't know what their bone structure is like, and 2) this is sci-fi: asari pseudo-parthenogenesis isn't logical either.

Yeah, and i dont like asari much either.
But i see what you mean about logic not nessesarily applying, even still i hold to my theory.

[Kikaimegami]

Okay, I'll bite.





Purple: skeleton

Blue: outline of the shin-guard

Green: outline of the leg

Red: point at which the leg bends.



Looks like there's plenty of room for free movement of a joint if there was one there, at least "backwards" (letting the leg straighten out), but not much room for movement "forwards" (to bend it more).

[TheodoricFriede]

Thank you Kikaimegami, that's exactly what i was talking about.

I hold to the idea that forward movement is enabled by a knee guard that gives a little.

[Someone With Mass]

Lol at quarian with human skeleton.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:48 .

[Kikaimegami]

If that's the case, then the geth hoppers don't have too funny of shaped legs in comparison

[Someone With Mass]

Well, they're called hoppers for a reason.

[Kikaimegami]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Well, they're called hoppers for a reason.

Still makes me think quarians could jump like crazy if they wanted to. Couldn't you just see Tali working around in the ducts on the SR2 and suddenly *hop* she's in Mordin's lab without actually using the ladder?

[Nilfalasiel]

I still don't understand why they'd want to hamper movement in that area in any way, if they had a joint there. Surely, the joint would be there to ease the strain of the leg curve. Impairing its movement by a stiff leg-guard is counterintuitive. Because even if that knee guard gives way a little, it's just that: a little. Not the freedom of movement that would be expected for a useful part of their anatomy.

I can understand if the suits were human-made, and not quite adapted to quarian anatomy. But these are quarian-made suits: surely, if they had a joint at that spot, they'd design their armours to allow that joint to move freely?

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:56 .

[Kikaimegami]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

I still don't understand why they'd want to hamper movement in that area in any way, if they had a joint there. Surely, the joint would be there to ease the strain of the leg curve. Impairing its movement by a stiff leg-guard is counterintuitive. Because even if that knee guard gives way a little, it's just that: a little. Not the freedom of movement that would be expected for a useful part of their anatomy.

I can understand if the suits were human-made, and not quite adapted to quarian anatomy. But these are quarian-made suits: surely, if they had a joint at that spot, they'd design their armours to allow that joint to move freely?

It could simply be that it's honestly as far as their legs can move in that direction. The image of the hopper I posted has a severe angle of movement of that joint, but something like a knee can only go so far in one direction. Maybe that's just their limit for that specific joint.

[Someone With Mass]

Kikaimegami wrote...



Still makes me think quarians could jump like crazy if they wanted to. Couldn't you just see Tali working around in the ducts on the SR2 and suddenly *hop* she's in Mordin's lab without actually using the ladder?

Maybe not that high, but I can definitely see her hopping around. She has some trouble with standing still sometimes.

Quite energetic, that one. 

[TheodoricFriede]

It doesn't look to me like the boot is made for comfort as much as protection. Tali isn't exactly wearing armor, but the boot looks like it was made to protect, not for ease of movement.

Don't forget the suit is technically human made. The developers may just not have thought the whole thing out.

[Nilfalasiel]

Are there screens of other quarians' legs? Or maybe Tali's ME1 armour? It could just be that the design of her ME2 boots is ambiguous.

Also, if you're allowing for developer oversight in armour design, then designing quarian legs to simply be curved also qualifies as acceptable developer oversight.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:06 .

[TheodoricFriede]

There are certain things that are easier to...oversee?...then other things. Curved shin seems immediately noticeable, lack of leg room seems a bit tougher to spot.

You are a formidable opponent Nilfalasiel, I'm very much enjoying this debate.

[Flamewielder]

You may also consider that the bend may not be an actual articulation but reflect some elasticity in the quarian long bones. Such elasticity is what made some prosthetics so controversial in para-olympic running sports. Increased running speed would be an evolutionnary advantage. See data:image/jpg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAkGBwgHBgkIBwgKCgkLDRYPDQwMDRsUFRAWIB0iIiAdHx8kKDQsJCYxJx8fLT0tMTU3Ojo6Iys/RD84QzQ5Ojf/2wBDAQoKCg0MDRoPDxo3JR8lNzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzf/wAARCABeAH8DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAABAAIDAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGAQcIAgQD/8QAMxAAAQMDAQQJAgYDAAAAAAAAAQACAwQFEQYHIVFhEiIxMkFxgZGhE2IUI0KCscFDorL/xAAVAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAf/EABYRAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARAf/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A3iiIgIiICIiAiKNrL1TUdZDSyh5kmkEbejjcSMjO9BJIiICIiAiIgIiICIiAiIgwdwWvtS7TIKSqfQ2CnZX1DD0ZJnv6MLDwz+r0IHMrG2PVD7LZ47bRydGqr8hzgd7Ih3vfOPdax2eWZ+pNRQUDi5tJG0zVBbu6gI3eZJA9TwQbAt9w2i32mfPQyWuKF2QHhuB+0kHOPVUO7aU1rS3ikpp4o3z1chZHKHB4cR2lzsZHHJXRUEMcELIYWNZGxoaxjRgNA7AAvakEBouhvdus4p9Q1cNTUtd1DFvDWYGGk4GTnPwp9EVBERAREQEREBERAREQc+baJJqnXEsZyWQU8TG8gQXfySrBsDiayqvLnD8z6cIHll+f6Xy7caF1LfqO4Nb+XV0/03H7mE/04eyjNkV7ZbtWxQTODYq5hgJPYH9rfkY/cg6AREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQVbaRpw6l0xPTQNBrIT9am5vAPV9QSPULmhsstPMCC+OSN2QexzXA/BBXYC05tg2fuc6bUVliJPfradg7eMjR/0PXigu2znWEOqrK10jmtuNOA2qi4nweOR+DkK2rkrT95rrDcobhbZjFPGfNrx4tcPEHh/eF0fonWNBqy3/VgIhrIwPxFK52XMPEcW8D771dTFmREUUREQEREBERAREQEREBYIysr8JqlsYQaf2mbMXRulvOmYMsOX1FDGN44ujH8t9uC1farlWWquirbdUPgqYjlsjDvHEcwfEHcun572yI725C1trrStpv0klwtQbRXJ3We3GIpzzx3XfcO3xHirUix6E2k0V/EdFcyyjuZ3AHdHOftJ7D9p9Mq+5BXJVRS1NFUOpquF8crO1jh88xzG5bL0Jr29ULWUlwjfcKQbmue782McnHvDkfdButFGUd7pKqASj6kYP6ZGEFJr1Tse2ONks0r+7GxvWd5DhzO4eJCipNF4gdI+JjpWBjyMuaHdLB4Z8V7QEREBERAREQF5cxru1oPovSIPmkoKaTvwtPovkksNBJ/ix5FSiIKvdNDWm5xBlRH0sd1x7W+RG8KIp9nrqB+aOty0d0SxNdj1ACv6IKHNY7uyQF9RPIB4MLWD/UA/Kl7Db6qnyBE2Bjjl5A6zzzJ3n1KsqIMAYACyiICIiD/2Q==
On the topic of hair: you have it or you dont. If quarians have hair on any part of their body, chances are they have some on their head. If their brains are located in their head, heat loss would be limited by the presence of hair, thus hair would make evolutionnary sense.
On the other hand, hair is a pain to manage in closed-circuit life-support systems (i.e. vacc suits), so I'm guessing the quarians would be keeping any hair cropped short. Even human females are asked to wear a swim cap in most pools to keep lost hair from clogging filters...

Modifié par Flamewielder, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:15 .

[Someone With Mass]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Are there screens of other quarians' legs? Or maybe Tali's ME1 armour? It could just be that the design of her ME2 boots is ambiguous.

Also, if you're allowing for developer oversight in armour design, then designing quarian legs to simply be curved also qualifies as acceptable developer oversight.

This is the closest thing I have.

[stewie1974]

Or the bend in the leg could be an evolutionary -over hang- It could be a redundant reside bend from once being a quadroped , thigh lengthened, arms retracted, bend became less severe. We still have tailbones from our ancestors...

[Nilfalasiel]

Someone With Mass wrote...

This is the closest thing I have.

Those boots look more rounded than Tali's ones, they don't have that angle that would allow for the presence of a joint. Also, the boots seem to fit quite snugly over the calves: especially the male's ones and the ones of the female in the back.

Ideally though, a shot of ME1 Tali would be best: I seem to remember her ME1 suit being more close-fitting.

And lol, Theodoric, thanks for the compliment!

[TheodoricFriede]

It may look like there's less room in the "standard" quarian boot, but that version also doesn't have any knee guard whatsoever. It looks like it does at first, but its just an odd fabric pattern. That would allow for proper movement of the central joint.
Tali's ME1 suit is virtually identical, aside from the metal arm, which has no bearing on this conversation.

Modifié par TheodoricFriede, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:30 .

[Someone With Mass]

Her ME1 shin guards are quite different, actually.

[TheodoricFriede]

Im sorry i should have been more clear.

Tali's ME1 shin guards are virtually identical to the standard quarian female shinguards.