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[TheodoricFriede]

If it where that easy, the quarians never would have lost their homeworld in the first place. And don't forget, there aren't that many quarians to begin with. Machines can build other machines very quickly, The geth can make a state of the art warship in probably a third of the time organics can, quarians are still using 300 year old ships. Most of which are meant for civilians.
Every attempt to send a virus to the geth has failed miserably.
I love quarians i think they're the best race in Mass Effect, but send them against geth and it will end in their extinction.
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Talis Placeholder face.

Modifié par TheodoricFriede, 24 septembre 2010 - 01:39 .

[Angmir]

Elcor mode on

Startled realization - if we do not go for Legions loyalty quest, and he dies in the Collectors Base, or we dont even reactivate it and give him to Cerberus the Heretics would ssucceed with rewriting all Geth, thus no peace between Geth and Quarians could be established. Thus war would be uneviteble. War or could Quarians choose to flee again.

I say no more running. I intend to keep Admiral Rael promise to Tali !

[Giggles_Manically]

Sadly I think that after Tali's and Legions LM, and Overlord the Geth know about theses attempts to control them. They arent stupid at all.



I do like bringing Tali on Legion's LM though, not only because she is the best anti-geth squadmate.

[Angmir]

TheodoricFriede wrote...

If it where that easy, the quarians never would have lost their homeworld in the first place. And don't forget, there aren't that many quarians to begin with. Machines can build other machines very quickly, The geth can make a state of the art warship in probably a third of the time organics can, quarians are still using 300 year old ships. Most of which are meant for civilians.
Every attempt to send a virus to the geth has failed miserably.
I love quarians i think they're the best race in Mass Effect, but send them against geth and it will end in their extinction.

It isn't that difficult at all - Legion explained this himself - all external hacking attemps are futile, but Heretics virus was all diffrent - it affected the most basic parts of Geth code, altering a mathematical formula at the very core of Geth programing. Geth are unable to protect against such atacks, as any computer cannot heal itself if the very engine is broken. Sure external damage might be diagnosed and repaired, but the core functioning errors cannot. I am no programer - but this seems logical to me.

I say again lets do exacly what the Heretics tried to do.

[Someone With Mass]

Damn right.

If the admirals are too stubborn to realize that there are other ways to get the homeworld back, instead of just turning the whole fleet into a junk yard, I'll make them see it the hard way.

[TheodoricFriede]

The only virus that ever had a chance of working came from the Reapers, you think the quarians have a chance in hell of replicating that? Never.

There's only one way the quarians will get the homeworld back, peace.

[Eldareus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

A laughable comparison, yes.

Legion can be brought to the Migrant Fleet with the intention of trying to convince the admirals that not all geth are bad and they might be able to talk peace.

I know bioware is trying the lay the groundwork for a possible peaceful arrangement between the Geth and Quarians and for simplicility the writers are exploring this plotline with the player's interactions between  Tali and Legion. However, I'm willing to suspense my disbelief for just about every situation accept when it directly contradicts previously establish facts, like the open hostility between the Geth and Quarians for hundreds of years.

Take the trial for instance here the admiralty board is accusing Tali of treason for bringing active Geth and thus compromising the security of the migrant fleet. To waltz right in there with Legion is just absurd even if you claim Legion is the synthetic equivalent of Jesus.  Just doesn't make any logical sense. First off, the Quarians have zero knowledge that there is even a peaceful sect of Geth and they are not going to jeopardize the migrant fleets survival on the words of a some human captain and a potentially treasonous Quarian.  Second the whole cutscene conflict bewteen Tali and Legion makes little sense now if Legion is allowed to walk abroad the Alerei and see first hand the unethical experiements against his people, heretics or not,. Whats  prevents him from opening up a FTL channel to broadcast his findlings while onboard the Alerei while Shepard and Tali are distracted, and, oh by the way here is the location of Migrant Fleet. Since we know the Herectics are actively spying on the friendly Geth they now know the location of the migrant fleet. 


I loved Massed effect 2, awesome game, great story this was just one inconsistency that made little sense to me. I still think giving all we know about Tali I just don't think even Shepard's awesome persuasive skills it enough to counter years of cultural bias and hatred of a race that has tormented her people for over three hundred years.  

[Angmir]

Someone With Mass wrote...


Damn right.

If the admirals are too stubborn to realize that there are other ways to get the homeworld back, instead of just turning the whole fleet into a junk yard, I'll make them see it the hard way.

You know what dude - it was the first time I realized that Biowere realy listenes to our pleas to make reclaiming Ranoch MAYOR part of ME3, mybe as mayor ass the one of optional plot axis of the game. (Ie - you state at the beginig of game -screw ewrything - Tali's safty and happiness is all that matters to me.)  It was when I first saw this line out of Liaras mouth - thank you Biowere - for the hope you gave me. I dont recall any other game designers listening to their comunity that much - albost everythink about LotSB reminds of that consern they make. All the Eastereggs, all lines of dialogs evry note does. Thank you (end of spontanious burst of appreciation)

Modifié par Angmir, 24 septembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[Kikaimegami]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Migrant Fleet doesn't always have reliable extranet or comm buoy access. It's very likely that there wouldn't be any easy access from the Alarei to the galaxy at large that Legion, or even the geth that had taken over that ship in the first place, could have taken advantage of. If the geth were going to find out the location of the Migrant Fleet (and why they'd even want it is beyond me considering the fact that they let the quarians leave the Perseus Veil in the first place, because they sure as hell could have chased them down and gotten rid of them 300 years ago when they were severely weakened if they really wanted to utterly destroy them), they'd have discovered it from the geth that were already there, Legion being allowed onboard or not, as well as finding out what had happened in the first place. It all points to there not being easy access to send messages to the main body of geth (or in this case, specifically the Heretics, since those on the Alarei were if they'd been salvaged from geth Tali had contact with).



And the geth haven't been tormenting the quarians for thee hundred years. They chased them out of the Perseus Veil and could care less about what they do after that. They just want to be left alone.

[NuclearBuddha]

Real-time FTL com access (barring the quantum entanglement thing TIM uses) does indeed require the ME equivalent of telephone lines. However, the Migrant Fleet's proximity to a relay in ME2 means that it is in near-real-time contact even without com bouys. Like only a couple hours delay.



This wasn't something I understood very well until reading up on exactly how FTL com worked in ME.

[Kikaimegami]

TheodoricFriede wrote...

The only virus that ever had a chance of working came from the Reapers, you think the quarians have a chance in hell of replicating that? Never.
There's only one way the quarians will get the homeworld back, peace.

Also a big reason why I've ultimately decided to destroy the Heretic station instead of use the virus. I don't trust anything that has even been sneezed at by the Reapers. You mess with Reaper tech in any capacity and you're just inviting bad news. I don't care that using it is a Paragon action and will likely have no bad consequence in ME3 just because that's how BioWare rolls. I don't trust Reapers as far as I can throw their tentacled asses and I don't trust that virus at all. I wouldn't even trust it if Legion picked it apart and told me that he couldn't find anything dangerous about it. I wouldn't even trust it if I could stall for time so the geth collective at large could pick it apart for bugs. I don't trust anything the Reapers have touched, ever.

[Kikaimegami]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Real-time FTL com access (barring the quantum entanglement thing TIM uses) does indeed require the ME equivalent of telephone lines. However, the Migrant Fleet's proximity to a relay in ME2 means that it is in near-real-time contact even without com bouys. Like only a couple hours delay.

This wasn't something I understood very well until reading up on exactly how FTL com worked in ME.

I seem to remember that they managed to lock-down the Alarei, though, and I know that the antennae on Legion's back isn't going to have the power output necessary to even get a signal to that relay in any remotely timely manner. I'd imagine comm firewalls were in place there and likely on the Rayya as well.

[NuclearBuddha]

Kikaimegami wrote...
I seem to remember that they managed to lock-down the Alarei, though, and I know that the antennae on Legion's back isn't going to have the power output necessary to even get a signal to that relay in any remotely timely manner. I'd imagine comm firewalls were in place there and likely on the Rayya as well.

Sure.  I was just noting that it's a poorly-understood part of ME setting lore.  Trying to be educational, as it were.

Given that a traitor with a grudge (Golo, for instance) could cause a lot of pain in a relatively easy fashion like that, I'm sure the Migrant Fleet has any number of safeguards to prevent such a thing.

[Kikaimegami]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Sure.  I was just noting that it's a poorly-understood part of ME setting lore.  Trying to be educational, as it were.

Given that a traitor with a grudge (Golo, for instance) could cause a lot of pain in a relatively easy fashion like that, I'm sure the Migrant Fleet has any number of safeguards to prevent such a thing.

Ah, okay, I see what you're getting at Yeah, it seems as if people just think everyone everywhere has FTL comm access if they have an Omni-Tool and a power source, or something, when that isn't the case at all. I think people often forget about the mere fact that something as simple as Legion contacting the rest of the geth requires firewall access through EDI. You know that the Migrant Fleet is going to be careful with that kind of stuff.

EDIT: Sorry if this is all off-topic, I just felt it was pertinent to the specific topic of the issue with taking Legion on Tali's loyalty mission and the fiddly topic of the Alarei.

EDIT2: And Reaper viruses <_< Seriously, even Tali has to think that's a horrible idea, and not just because she's in favor of destroying them.

Modifié par Kikaimegami, 24 septembre 2010 - 02:31 .

[Someone With Mass]

I choose to rewrite the geth, because I think that even if they turn on me later, they're just a small faction.



But that's the only time I'll use a virus. There's no way in hell I'm giving the Reapers the same chance.



As for bringing Legion on Tali's loyalty mission. Even if he was gathering intel, he did it because they were doing it too. I bet Tali would've done the same thing..

[Eldareus]

It makes sense to me to bring Tali to Legion's mission because she been the trusted team member since ME1 and is very effective in combating the Geth. Up until Bioware introduces Legion, the Geth been a hostile force that you spent an entire game battling against. As a player, I 'm willing to give Tali the benefit of the doubt and maintain a trust but verify relationship with Legion.

Modifié par Eldareus, 24 septembre 2010 - 03:13 .

[camoboy_19]

When it comes to Geth, I think that a peace/alliance with quarians is very obtainable, but there's some obstruction that must be taken care of (Heretics in Legion's loyalty mission and Daro'Xen, who you will inevitably have to confront in ME3). It'd be silly to have them fight out a war, it'd damage the whole galaxy.

Edit: Afterall, Legion says that the Geth have nothing against the Quarians, they were just defending themselves, and the quarians' actions were predicted. And if you can get Tali and Legion to work together, that's a nice start.

Modifié par camoboy_19, 24 septembre 2010 - 03:20 .

[camoboy_19]

mrsph wrote...

I always thought one of the main reasons Tali was so horrified about her father's actions is that he was test weapons on sapient beings. And not the unintelligent parts she originally sent him.

Naw, I think it's the fact that he actually assembled Geth and was trying to geth info from them being structured and linked together along with trying to use their tech for weapons. Mainly making geth and getting everyone on the Aleri killed, though.

[Someone With Mass]

mrsph wrote...

I always thought one of the main reasons Tali was so horrified about her father's actions is that he was testing weapons on sapient beings. And not the unintelligent parts she originally sent him.

I think she didn't believe Rael could go so far to achieve (or at least try) his goals. Not to mention the whole "strike his name from every list" deal.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 24 septembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Eldareus]

I think Tali was horrified that her father would jeopardize the safety and survival of the migrant fleet with dangerous and reckless experiements.

[Iwakura-Lain]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Yeah, it seems as if people just think everyone everywhere has FTL comm access if they have an Omni-Tool and a power source, or something, when that isn't the case at all. I think people often forget about the mere fact that something as simple as Legion contacting the rest of the geth requires firewall access through EDI. You know that the Migrant Fleet is going to be careful with that kind of stuff.

And exactly how successful was EDI detecting that virus (which started to transmit the Normandy location) when they installed that IFF? EDI's firewalls meant absolutely nothing! I take it Reaper technology is more advanced than Geth stuff; but my point being: if you mess with technology which is way over your head, you're only guaranteed not to fully understand what it can and will use against you. If Legion wanted to contact the Geth, he'd find a way. Or do incredible harm trying.

I did actually activate Legion; because, well, it's the Paragon thing to do. In real life I probably wouldn't, though (either option, at least, beats giving Legion to Cerberus -- which would be insane; Miranda, for all the powers and looks she's got, could really use some common sense at times).

There's a good reason the Quarians leave the Geth utterly disassembled.

[NuclearBuddha]

The codex notes that while the quarians do have a hate-on for the geth, they're more likely than other sentients to recognize AIs and synthetics as "people."



So Tali's horror at what her father had done probably stemmed from two sources: a. that he would endanger the Flotilla so recklessly, and b. that he'd resort to something very akin to torture.



To support this speculation, I point to Tali's reaction to Xen's opinion on the geth as tools or toys to be disassembled.

[KendallX23]

The Geth remind me of the Hulk...they just want to be left alone...

I just wish we could change Tali's views about the whole Geth situation...she is young and seemingly made to believe war till extermination is the only way when talking about the Geth...glad that u can make her see some reason during the course of ME2...maybe we can continue that in ME3..actually i am sure of it

[Volrath937]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

The codex notes that while the quarians do have a hate-on for the geth, they're more likely than other sentients to recognize AIs and synthetics as "people."

So Tali's horror at what her father had done probably stemmed from two sources: a. that he would endanger the Flotilla so recklessly, and b. that he'd resort to something very akin to torture.

To support this speculation, I point to Tali's reaction to Xen's opinion on the geth as tools or toys to be disassembled.

Yes, they do think that. I'm pretty sure Tali refers to them as sapient as well.

So, would you hate a person that has done horrible things to you more than a mindless machine that has done horrible things to you? 

How exactly would you torture a geth? Their platforms are disposable, they feel no pain, and there's no reason their code would have "emotional trauma" built in, so what could you really do?

I thought her reaction to Xen was more "Dissecting your childhood toys is a sign of a mentally unstable person, and wanting to use the geth as a synthetic army for the quarians is insane," and less "Geth shouldn't be experimented on". 

Modifié par Volrath937, 24 septembre 2010 - 04:07 .