16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Well, I don't think Tali and/or Legion hate each other. They're just concerned about the future of their people.

[Kikaimegami]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

It's a shame we don't have another loyalty conflict for comparison, really. The Miranda/Jack one isn't really "resolved" so much as postponed, and isn't particularly analogous to Tali and Legion's issues with each other. Tali and Legion can solve their differences with surprisingly little rancor once Shep gets involved.

Shepard is just that smooth.

Apparently there's leftover unused dialogue from some sort of conflict between Grunt and Mordin that would have been a better comparison, but I guess it was taken out because Grunt was sort of meant to ignore the genophage, so he wouldn't have cared so much as to have an argument about it.

You also have to consider though that even if the Mordin and Grunt conflict had been left in, it might still not have been a good comparison, since the relationship between either of them with Shepard is completely different from Shepard's relationships with Tali and Legion. They're not even in the same category.

Modifié par Kikaimegami, 24 septembre 2010 - 06:59 .

[NuclearBuddha]

Kikaimegami wrote...
Well, considering the music, opera was it?, playing at the end of the Geth Incursion missions in ME1, they'd probably really love a mixtape of "Tali's quarian battle music" that she listens to through her suit helmet during epic fights with Shepard Because you know Garrus does the same thing and I can totally see Tali rocking out.

A capella, actually.  Though, it'd be interesting if it was from an opera.

[RiptideX1090]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

It's a shame we don't have another loyalty conflict for comparison, really. The Miranda/Jack one isn't really "resolved" so much as postponed, and isn't particularly analogous to Tali and Legion's issues with each other. Tali and Legion can solve their differences with surprisingly little rancor once Shep gets involved.

Shepard: You! *points at Tali* Stop being rascist!

Tali: Bu-

Shepard: You! *points at Legion* Stop being stupid!

Legion: We do-

Shepard: Love one another god dammit!

Tali and Legion: Okay.

*everyone is now friends*

Wish Shepard was around when my parents divorced.

It is nice to see Tali extending an olive branch after Shepard kinda nudges her in the right direction. Paragon Shepard will definitely be a better influence than Rael... I think...

[NuclearBuddha]

Kikaimegami wrote...
Shepard is just that smooth.

Apparently there's leftover unused dialogue from some sort of conflict between Grunt and Mordin that would have been a better comparison, but I guess it was taken out because Grunt was sort of meant to ignore the genophage, so he wouldn't have cared so much as to have an argument about it.

You also have to consider though that even if the Mordin and Grunt conflict had been left in, it might still not have been a good comparison, since the relationship between either of them with Shepard is completely different from Shepard's relationships with Tali and Legion. They're not even in the same category.

That's what I was alluding to, actually.  But we'd get to see another example of "resolution" to compare how Tali and Legion bury the hatchet.  Because right now they look insanely well-mannered over even such an important issue.

[Kikaimegami]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Well, I don't think Tali and/or Legion hate each other. They're just concerned about the future of their people.

I'd go so far as to say that Legion at the very least has some sort of respect for Tali. Now Tali... I think she distrusts and dislikes Legion, at least at the very beginning, but is willing to set it aside for the mission. After the conflict, she's closer to trusting him.

[NuclearBuddha]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
It is nice to see Tali extending an olive branch after Shepard kinda nudges her in the right direction. Paragon Shepard will definitely be a better influence than Rael... I think...

Rael got her this far.  But yeah, Shep can probably take things from here.

[Kikaimegami]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

A capella, actually.  Though, it'd be interesting if it was from an opera.

Oh awesome, you actually have a capture of it.

[RiptideX1090]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...
It is nice to see Tali extending an olive branch after Shepard kinda nudges her in the right direction. Paragon Shepard will definitely be a better influence than Rael... I think...

Rael got her this far.  But yeah, Shep can probably take things from here.

Rael got her far enough to nearly get her killed on Haestrom.

Shepard was the one who was there to keep her from dying, remember?

So, yeah.

Shepard's got it from here, I think.

Unless you're Titanium Man and got her exiled for the lulz, anyway.

Or Red, and let her die in the vents.

[Kikaimegami]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

That's what I was alluding to, actually.  But we'd get to see another example of "resolution" to compare how Tali and Legion bury the hatchet.  Because right now they look insanely well-mannered over even such an important issue.

I think it might partially be because they're both um... mature about it. Jack and Miranda are being very immature and combative about things, but Tali and Legion actually understand there's a great deal at stake and that they really need to reconsider things.

[Someone With Mass]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

It is nice to see Tali extending an olive branch after Shepard kinda nudges her in the right direction. Paragon Shepard will definitely be a better influence than Rael... I think...

Shepard: This is not the planet you're looking for.

Tali: This is not the planet I'm looking for.

Shepard: You will worship me as if I were your god.

Tali: I will...wait, what?

Shepard: Eh...yeah, you should go look for another planet. Don't doubt my decision.

[nickFury]

Calinstel wrote...

Actually, since this conflict between Tali and Legion is after Legions loyalty mission, it is quite possible that Tali is looking back at the knowledge gained of the Heretics.
Legion is not in the same group so she could actually be looking at him differently now than before.

Possibly but not very likely, after all it wasn't the heretics that were involved in the morning war.

Shepard: Its a different geth they dont want to kill organics and they dont worship the reapers.

Tali: Oh, so its just one of the friendly geth that slaughtered our people and took our world from us.

Modifié par nickFury, 24 septembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[Kikaimegami]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Shepard: You will worship me as if I were your god.

Tali: I will...wait, what?

Renegade Shepard has a way with the ladies!

[Kikaimegami]

nickFury wrote...

Possibly but not very likely, after all it wasn't the heretics that were involved in the morning war.

Shepard: Its a different geth they dont want to kill organics and they dont worship the reapers.

Tali: Oh, so its just one of the friendly geth that slaughtered oor people and took our world from us.

<Legion>They're all geth</Legion>

I think there's some truth to that, though. Before Legion's loyalty mission, she thinks that the geth have decided to come outside the Veil and worship the Reapers and kill organics. Afterwards, she learns that the vast majority of the geth are actually just perfectly happy chilling out behind the Veil and doing their gethy thing, so her views on them are going to change. The Heretics proved, in a way, what the quarians believed (they want to kill us all!) so to have that disproven, is really going to make Tali think differently about the whole thing.

Modifié par Kikaimegami, 24 septembre 2010 - 07:14 .

[Kikaimegami]

Calinstel wrote...

Just as likely a single sentence from Shepard changed her mind. Tali is very intelligent. Her emotions may flair but she does think. If that were not the case, she would have already destroyed legion before Shepard got there. There was already something telling her not to and if we could have heard her thought, i'm willing to bet it would have revealed her inner battle.
Go with history and just destroy or use the knowledge she gained and look for something better than constant killing.

Considering Haestrom and the Alarei, she's certainly had her fill of killing and losing people she knows lately. If I were her, I'd certainly be tired of it all and wanting to find a different and better way to resolve things, so I can totally understand her hesitation. You're right--it might be more likely that Shepard just told her what she was wanting to hear when he broke up the fight and helped in that way.

[Someone With Mass]

Calinstel wrote...

Just as likely a single sentence from Shepard changed her mind. Tali is very intelligent. Her emotions may flair but she does think. If that were not the case, she would have already destroyed legion before Shepard got there. There was already something telling her not to and if we could have heard her thought, i'm willing to bet it would have revealed her inner battle.
Go with history and just destroy or use the knowledge she gained and look for something better than constant killing.

I don't want anyone else. I want you.

For he is the shepherd in the valley of darkness!

[nickFury]

Kikaimegami wrote...

nickFury wrote...

Possibly but not very likely, after all it wasn't the heretics that were involved in the morning war.

Shepard: Its a different geth they dont want to kill organics and they dont worship the reapers.

Tali: Oh, so its just one of the friendly geth that slaughtered oor people and took our world from us.

They're all geth

I think there's some truth to that, though. Before Legion's loyalty mission, she thinks that the geth have decided to come outside the Veil and worship the Reapers and kill organics. Afterwards, she learns that the vast majority of the geth are actually just perfectly happy chilling out behind the Veil and doing their gethy thing, so her views on them are going to change. The Heretics proved, in a way, what the quarians believed (they want to kill us all!) so to have that disproven, is really going to make Tali think differently about the whole thing.

To a degree I agree, Tali may not see them as the pangalactic killers that we/she thought they were in ME1 however its going to take more than that for her to stop thinking of them as the ultimate enemy of the quarian race, but I do think she will eventually get there with shepards/Legions help. I so wish that when you talk to Legion about the war and how the geth dont want to fight the quarians and are actually maintaining Rannoch that you could bring the news to Tali.

So dissapointed when I tried this.

[Kikaimegami]

Hey, I don't blame her. It is fun watching Shepard shout.

[Volrath937]

Calinstel wrote...

Just as likely a single sentence from Shepard changed her mind. Tali is very intelligent. Her emotions may flair but she does think. If that were not the case, she would have already destroyed legion before Shepard got there. There was already something telling her not to and if we could have heard her thought, i'm willing to bet it would have revealed her inner battle.
Go with history and just destroy or use the knowledge she gained and look for something better than constant killing.

Or her implicit trust in Shepard, and  the gratitude for what he's done for her, stayed her hand. 

[Kikaimegami]

nickFury wrote...

To a degree I agree, Tali may not see them as the pangalactic killers that we/she thought they were in ME1 however its going to take more than that for her to stop thinking of them as the ultimate enemy of the quarian race, but I do think she will eventually get there with shepards/Legions help. I so wish that when you talk to Legion about the war and how the geth dont want to fight the quarians and are actually maintaining Rannoch that you could bring the news to Tali.

So dissapointed when I tried this.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I KNOW OH GOD

"Hey, Tali, you can clean the engine up in a second. Legion just told me something you need to hear. Trust me on this. Come on, I'll ask him to tell you himself. You want to hear this."

[Someone With Mass]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Hey, I don't blame her. It is fun watching Shepard shout.

And watch him topple after four-five drinks, carry his drunk ass to the ship and...well, I think it's pretty obvious.

[Someone With Mass]

Kikaimegami wrote...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I KNOW OH GOD

"Hey, Tali, you can clean the engine up in a second. Legion just told me something you need to hear. Trust me on this. Come on, I'll ask him to tell you himself. You want to hear this."

This should really be mentioned in either ME3 or a DLC. It's too big to just ignore.