16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Nilfalasiel]

Captain Cornhole wrote...

I have to disagree with you on that.

On the leadership topic? Both missions that Tali led ended in disaster (and her aborted email in the LotSB dossier states that she led the Haestrom team as well), and she can't seem to assert authority other than by getting angry (cf. Prazza). She's not a diplomat: she has no issues speaking up when she disagrees with something, she insulted the Admiralty board and told Daro'Xen she was insane. I honestly can't see her succeeding in political manoeuvres very well: she wouldn't be able to take the BS sitting down.

Like I said though, it doesn't diminish her loyalty to her people or her worth as a character. Not everyone is made to be a leader. And that's just fine.

Still, it's just my opinion.

[Someone With Mass]

Flaws can shape a character too.

[Killjoy Cutter]

I wouldn't consider Tali a world-class leader, but blaming her for Prazza being a complete idiot, and the Admiralty sending her team on a suicide run to Haestrom, seems a little harsh.

[Nilfalasiel]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I wouldn't consider Tali a world-class leader, but blaming her for Prazza being a complete idiot, and the Admiralty sending her team on a suicide run to Haestrom, seems a little harsh.

Prazza was an idiot, but Tali clearly had no authority over him. You can be an idiot and still follow orders.

As for Haestrom, it wasn't designed as a suicide mission: there were no geth there when Tali's team arrived. They only showed up later. I don't think the Admiralty could've foreseen that. Sure, it was a very risky mission, but I wouldn't outright call it a suicide run.

[DirtyVagrant]

mrsph wrote...

I wouldn't exactly trust a 24 year old with the future of an entire species.

She's just too young to be an admiral.

This. Just like within your own nation's military, you don't see twenty-something admirals and generals.

[Eldareus]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

[Well, even this is not a binary switch:  we do know that if Shep specifically endangers the quarian race (i.e. the Tali/Legion conflict) that she'll tell him to go get bent.  However, I don't know that Tali really believes she herself is of prime importance to the survival of the Flotilla.  If she really felt that way, she wouldn't have gotten things started with Shepard in the first place, since it's theoretically life-threatening.

I'm not implying that the relationship is a direct threat to the survival of flotilla, however a relationship with Shepard would rob the Quarian's of Tali's future offspring. I'm sure the Quarains would not like to see good genetics leave the gene pool. 

We know that Tali's feelings for Shepard are so strong that she is willing to risk her life to experience intimacy with Shepard, but I still think Tali is more willing to risk her life than to risk the safety and security of her people. If she had to make the hard choice between her people and Shepard,  I bet she chooses her people every time.

[Someone With Mass]

And Tali hasn't even pursued a military career yet. Takes time to climb up the chain of command.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 30 septembre 2010 - 04:21 .

[FsDxRAGE]

I hope BW doesn't take the path of Tali becoming an admiral, I want mah Tali.

Also in LotSB, Liara kind of gave us some foreshadowing to Tali and Shep

[KnotEngaged]

First off, glad to see thread is back up. Feels good man.



As for the topic at hand. History is filled with people that were elevated to high ranking positions of authority far quicker than they should have been (Hell, look at the last two American Presidents). So for Tali to be made an admiral at the age of 24 or 25 wouldn't be surprising. I could easily see her being vaulted to the top for someone's own political gain due to her popularity, hero status, and lineage.



As for Tali as a leader, I think she is more equipped than many of us give her credit for. She is young and she is not strictly military, but given time, and Shep's tutelage, I think she could make a fine leader. However, if she were to be made an admiral in time for ME3 I think that the move would have been made for strictly political reasons instead of leadership ones.

[Someone With Mass]

And Tali is more qualified to be a high positioned and important leader than other admirals/quarians...how?

[NuclearBuddha]

Eldareus wrote...
I'm not implying that the relationship is a direct threat to the survival of flotilla, however a relationship with Shepard would rob the Quarian's of Tali's future offspring. I'm sure the Quarains would not like to see good genetics leave the gene pool. 

We know that Tali's feelings for Shepard are so strong that she is willing to risk her life to experience intimacy with Shepard, but I still think Tali is more willing to risk her life than to risk the safety and security of her people. If she had to make the hard choice between her people and Shepard,  I bet she chooses her people every time.

The quarians aren't hurting for offspring.  They have a one-child policy for a reason.  But I do appreciate the gene-pool angle.

Just suggesting it's not a binary thing.  Survival of her race, sure, sorry Shep.  But I don't know that she'd drop everything and run anytime they wanted her for some little thing.

[Nilfalasiel]

I agree that Tali is too young for Admiralcy anyway. Even if the two missions she's led had been successes, she still doesn't have enough experience to have that kind of responsibility. It's not because she's a genius engineer that she can command armies. The only reason they'd promote her is because she's Rael's daughter, and she doesn't even seem to like the idea.

Concerning the children topic: it's really not like the survival of the entire quarian race depends on Tali having children. It's an acceptable loss, if only numbers are considered. Sure, they are losing good genes, and that I can see as a viable objection. But it's not a matter of life-or-death. Not to the extent that she'd be choosing Shepard over the survival of her race.

[Someone With Mass]

If they want Tali's genes so badly, they can always clone her, or certain cells from her. No big loss when it comes to kids.

[PrinceLionheart]

 I'll admit, Tali makes it very hard for me to stay faithful to Ashley. She's just one of those characters I want to give a hug just because how adorable she is.

[CroGamer002]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

mrsph wrote...

I wouldn't exactly trust a 24 year old with the future of an entire species.

She's just too young to be an admiral.

This. Just like within your own nation's military, you don't see twenty-something admirals and generals.

Napoleon was!

[CroGamer002]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

 I'll admit, Tali makes it very hard for me to stay faithful to Ashley. She's just one of those characters I want to give a hug just because how adorable she is.

Same here.

[Spartanburger]

I though we settled the "Tali's command ability" A few million pages back or something?



There are different types of leadership. A Counselor, for example, may be an excellent diplomat but when it comes to leading an army into battle you need someone like General Hacket. Shepard's command ability is better for small high-priority infiltration teams than entire army's. Tali, although skilled in combat and daughter to an Admiral, is not a Combat leader (large or small scale) and although probably better than combat, not a skilled social/diplomat leader type thing.

I see her suited to leading an R&D team, a mechanical repair team, or anything to do with technology. She would need someone who she knows and trusts as her protection force who would be her military advisor during the mission and if it hits the fan then command is temporarily transfered to that person. In other words: Tali leads a team in hostile territory that harvests new and advanced tech or something. Shepard helps her maintain control of the subordinates and helps her set up in a better position and when the inevitable attack comes (by either Geth, Reapers or what-have-you) Shepard take over to repel the attack long enough for a quick and successful escape with no or little casualties.

[PrinceLionheart]

Spartanburger wrote...

I see her suited to leading an R&D team, a mechanical repair team, or anything to do with technology. She would need someone who she knows and trusts as her protection force who would be her military advisor during the mission and if it hits the fan then command is temporarily transfered to that person. In other words: Tali leads a team in hostile territory that harvests new and advanced tech or something. Shepard helps her maintain control of the subordinates and helps her set up in a better position and when the inevitable attack comes (by either Geth, Reapers or what-have-you) Shepard take over to repel the attack long enough for a quick and successful escape with no or little casualties.

In other words, Shepard is Kal'Reegar. 

[Spartanburger]

PrinceLionheart wrote...
In other words, Shepard is Kal'Reegar.

In a way, but with more under his command and a bit more experience with combat (I think). 

Runescapeguy9 wrote...


Tali's leadership is limited, thats just a fact.

[/discussion]