16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Spartanburger]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

She's also floating in that image.

Thus, the true power of Tali is revealed.


EDIT: TOP

meh, got bored.

Modifié par Spartanburger, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:42 .

[Iwakura-Lain]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

She's also floating in that image. It's just bad animation.

The 'bad animation' would account for the semi-floating (but we can't really fault Bioware for that, as I took a flycam shot from the side, what was supposed to be just a front-view of Tali). I'm not sure that accounts for the distinct kink in her shinbones, though.

Modifié par Iwakura-Lain, 02 novembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[Runescapeguy9]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

She's also floating in that image. It's just bad animation.

The 'bad animation' would account for the semi-floating (but we can't really fault Bioware for that, as I took a flycam shot from the side, what was supposed to be just a front-view of Tali). I'm not sure that accounts for the distinct kink in her shinbones, though.

When you twist models in ways they were not designed, weird things happen to them. I've done it in 3dsmax with Tali's model on accident.

[Iwakura-Lain]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

She's also floating in that image. It's just bad animation.

The 'bad animation' would account for the semi-floating (but we can't really fault Bioware for that, as I took a flycam shot from the side, what was supposed to be just a front-view of Tali). I'm not sure that accounts for the distinct kink in her shinbones, though.

When you twist models in ways they were not designed, weird things happen to them. I've done it in 3dsmax with Tali's model on accident.

Eh, you're probably right. And it really is the only place I've ever seen said kink.

[MMDCLXVI]

I'm not sure if I'd say the Quarians do have double-jointed legs. I think that there bone structure is just design different to humans allowing then to bend their legs in ways humans can't.



I'd say that like a human knee joint where the knee can only bend one way, Quarians knees bend only one way to, it just that further down the knee they have a second knee joint that can be lock preventing then form bending it when they don't need to. That way Quarians can walk and stand somewhat like a human. Possible an reason for the an extra knee joint maybe to help them jump higher or even run faster.



Of course Quarians are also design to look somewhat like the Turians in the senses of physical appearance. Turians are design to look almost bird like, I’m not saying that Quarians look like the Turians, but Turians do look similar to the Quarians.



My appoint is that Quarian legs are design to allow for faster running and more effective jumping, if so that could make for some really interesting game play where you could have Quarian marines running off ahead of you or performing a lot of acrobatics while trying to bodge gun fire. I don’t know about anyone else but I think that it would look cool. I hope that is Mass Effect 3 you’ll final get to see the Quarian Marines kicking some ass.

[Iwakura-Lain]

MMDCLXVI wrote...

I'm not sure if I'd say the Quarians do have double-jointed legs. I think that there bone structure is just design different to humans allowing then to bend their legs in ways humans can't.

I'd say that like a human knee joint where the knee can only bend one way, Quarians knees bend only one way to, it just that further down the knee they have a second knee joint that can be lock preventing then form bending it when they don't need to. That way Quarians can walk and stand somewhat like a human. Possible an reason for the an extra knee joint maybe to help them jump higher or even run faster.

Of course Quarians are also design to look somewhat like the Turians in the senses of physical appearance. Turians are design to look almost bird like, I’m not saying that Quarians look like the Turians, but Turians do look similar to the Quarians.

My appoint is that Quarian legs are design to allow for faster running and more effective jumping, if so that could make for some really interesting game play where you could have Quarian marines running off ahead of you or performing a lot of acrobatics while trying to bodge gun fire. I don’t know about anyone else but I think that it would look cool. I hope that is Mass Effect 3 you’ll final get to see the Quarian Marines kicking some ass.

Your theory appears sound to me. And there is *some* prima facie evidence (see the image I just posted) to support it. But what you see in that screenshot could, indeed, also simply be the result of a render error.

[protoshepard]

MMDCLXVI wrote...

I'm not sure if I'd say the Quarians do have double-jointed legs. I think that there bone structure is just design different to humans allowing then to bend their legs in ways humans can't.

I'd say that like a human knee joint where the knee can only bend one way, Quarians knees bend only one way to, it just that further down the knee they have a second knee joint that can be lock preventing then form bending it when they don't need to. That way Quarians can walk and stand somewhat like a human. Possible an reason for the an extra knee joint maybe to help them jump higher or even run faster.

Of course Quarians are also design to look somewhat like the Turians in the senses of physical appearance. Turians are design to look almost bird like, I’m not saying that Quarians look like the Turians, but Turians do look similar to the Quarians.

My appoint is that Quarian legs are design to allow for faster running and more effective jumping, if so that could make for some really interesting game play where you could have Quarian marines running off ahead of you or performing a lot of acrobatics while trying to bodge gun fire. I don’t know about anyone else but I think that it would look cool. I hope that is Mass Effect 3 you’ll final get to see the Quarian Marines kicking some ass.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe they do have another joint between the knee and the ankle closer to the ankle that makes their legs look more cat like. It would be awesome about the marines though, if they could do that during some epic assault, because the ones on Haestrom were not able to do that because they were ordered to hold position and defend.

[Spartanburger]

The area below the knee does seem to bend at different angles. Its probably just perspective but I've seen her with almost human legs and then five minutes later she has legs that seem to bend almost 90 degrees. The amount of bending I've seen in the legs seem far too much for it to be possible for only one joint. At the angle of bend it seems to be at, the legs would end up being a structural weakness where if too much weight was placed on it, it would snap.

This weakness would have evolved out of the ancient Quarians. So either she has two joints, one major (knee) and one minor (like a knee but with a very small range of motion) or their bones are made of a different material or consistency than humans bones are and are incredibly flexible.



"At least thats my opinion anyway, no need to go spreading it around or anything."

[Troodon80]

protoshepard wrote...
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe they do have another joint between the knee and the ankle closer to the ankle that makes their legs look more cat like. It would be awesome about the marines though, if they could do that during some epic assault, because the ones on Haestrom were not able to do that because they were ordered to hold position and defend.

Still not sure on that...



It doesn't look like it, but unless the shin guards were removed, we can't tell...

[MMDCLXVI]

'protoshepard - Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they do have another joint between the knee and the ankle closer to the ankle that makes their legs look more cat like.'



Yea your right, it would seem that they have another knee-joint closer to their ankle. Like what I said I think that this joint could be lock preventing then form bending it when they don't need to.

And your right about the Quarian Marines on Heastrom only been able to hold there position and defend, hopefully in Mass Effect 3 will get to see some Quarian Marines and how they should of been on Heastrom.

‘Iwakura-Lain - Your theory appears sound to me. And there is *some* prima facie evidence (see the image I just posted) to support it. But what you see in that screenshot could, indeed, also simply be the result of a render error’

I think your right, it just looks like a render error. I suppose that Quarians would look human like.

[MMDCLXVI]

It could be possible that Quarian knees are made out of a harder done material then let’s say humans. That why the knee-joints maybe able to support more upper body weight.

Even more possible is the way Quarian spines could in fact support more upper body weight then humans. That way their knees can bend further then are own and doesn't have to support nearly as much as a human knee would need to.

[Spartanburger]

I always though that Tali's bounce idle animation was caused by her legs being bent like that.

[Weiser_Cain]

That's all toe work. Quarians are more lightly built than humans, even the males are downright lightweight So I don't see them needing any special knee reinforcement. Their toes are strong though.

[The_Numerator]

A joint provides motility in exchange for load bearing capacity-- In an organism, each structural discontinuity reduces the total load the organism is able to support.



Simultaneously, a bow-shaped tibia passively dissipates momentum at impact more effectively than a tibia which is approximately linear. This mechanical advantage reduces the momentum that the muscles of the calve must dissipate, in turn reducing the total energy that the organism requires to facilitate locomotion.



The question is whether there is a joint, or a continuous structure.



Evolution obeys energy conservation laws. Period.

[Weiser_Cain]

I know I asked the question, but now after looking at that shin (great posts by the way) I'm going to say there's no extra joint there.

[Spartanburger]

The_Numerator wrote...

A joint provides motility in exchange for load bearing capacity-- In an organism, each structural discontinuity reduces the total load the organism is able to support.

Simultaneously, a bow-shaped tibia passively dissipates momentum at impact more effectively than a tibia which is approximately linear. This mechanical advantage reduces the momentum that the muscles of the calve must dissipate, in turn reducing the total energy that the organism requires to facilitate locomotion.

The question is whether there is a joint, or a continuous structure.

Evolution obeys energy conservation laws. Period.

True but a bow-shaped tibia would reduce load-bearing capabilities too. I'm almost afraid that If ordered to carry something heavy it would snap. Take for example, small tree branches that you might use for hiking. If it is straight, you can easily support your entire weight on one that is relatively small in diameter. If it is curved, when you put your weight on it, it bends in the direction of the curve instead of directly transfering the force into the ground. A thin straight stick will be able to hold my weight more than a curved one of the same thickness.
But Quarians may have thicker bones, or bones made a more flexible or stronger material. If The Quarians bones were strong but brittle, then there is no way i could see them having those legs as a result of Evolution.

[protoshepard]

This is what I am talking about


It looks like an inconspicous version of this. Sorry I could not enlarge it without pixelating it


It is an elite's leg from Halo, notice the extra joint.

Modifié par protoshepard, 03 novembre 2010 - 02:20 .

[The_Numerator]

Yes, a bow-shaped tibia can bear a lesser static load than a straight tibia. And this loss of load-bearing capacity is drastically less than that due to the presence of an articulated joint.

If the material could not support the radius of curvature, then such an organism would not have evolved.

Unless I misunderstood, the... bone of contention (HA HA!!!)... was what the most parsimonious answer to the question, "What is responsible for the bend? A joint, or a curve?", is. And the answer is a curve.

Edit: Oh, did you take my comment about energy conservation as meant to imply that ankle curvature in bipeds was an inevitable characterstic?

No, I mean, I don't know whether a curved ankle is preferable to a straight one. I was making two separate points: The first, that joints trade structural integrity for local motility. And in this case, the added motility grants no obvious advantage, and is therefore unlikely.

The second, that there are obvious advantages to a curved tibia.

In short, that one provides only disadvantages, while the other provides tangible advantages.

Taken together, that the most probable explanation is that the ankle is a continuous curved structure.

Modifié par The_Numerator, 03 novembre 2010 - 01:40 .

[protoshepard]

I hate BBCode. Could someone please fix that for me? It ruins my point. I need someone to show me how to do that.

[NuclearBuddha]

A good comparison is with Garrus' legs.  He very obviously walks on his toes (digitigrade) and thus definitely has two joints in his leg.  However, they are very spread apart.  One at the knee, and one lower.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 03 novembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Collider]

protoshepard wrote...

I hate BBCode. Could someone please fix that for me? It ruins my point. I need someone to show me how to do that.

It's like this:

[*img]awebsite.com/apicture.jpg[/img*]

without the *

A good comparison is with Garrus' legs.  He very obviously walks on his
toes (digitigrade) and thus definitely has two joints in his leg. 
However, they are very spread apart.  One at the knee, and one lower.

I never noticed that. Interesting.

Modifié par Collider, 03 novembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[protoshepard]

Collider wrote...

protoshepard wrote...

I hate BBCode. Could someone please fix that for me? It ruins my point. I need someone to show me how to do that.

It's like this:

[*img]awebsite.com/apicture.jpg[/img*]

without the *

Thanks...I fixed it. I had to captalize the [IMG*] tag
Please go up and look at the other post before the last. I finally fixed it and I was trying to show my point.

Modifié par protoshepard, 03 novembre 2010 - 02:37 .

[The_Numerator]

I'm afraid I can't speak for Elites, but if I'm making that image out correctly, you've circled its ankle joint. Actually, the circle is large enough that both its ankle and knee joints are circled.

But NuclearBuddha pointed out on the previous page that, as with us, the Quarian ankle joint is located immediately above the heel...

Actually, now I'm the one who is confused-- I thought the contention being made was that Quarians possessed three joints, and that was why I emphasized the unlikelyhood of such a redundant structure.

Is it that some only noticed the knee joint, and are imagining that the joint which they suppose is located along the curvature is the ankle joint?

[protoshepard]

The_Numerator wrote...

I'm afraid I can't speak for Elites, but if I'm making that image out correctly, you've circled its ankle joint. Actually, the circle is large enough that both its ankle and knee joints are circled.

But NuclearBuddha pointed out on the previous page that, as with us, the Quarian ankle joint is located immediately above the heel...

Actually, now I'm the one who is confused-- I thought the contention being made was that Quarians possessed three joints, and that was why I emphasized the unlikelyhood of such a redundant structure.

Is it that some only noticed the knee joint, and are imagining that the joint which they suppose is located along the curvature is the ankle joint?

I circled the second joint above the ankle and accidentally got the knee too. As for the quarian, I was looking at that anle in the leg right there below the top of the boot. It, to me, looks like a joint which, to me, makes more sense than a curved bone. They wouldn't need the extra support with the lighter frames, but the extra mobility could be useful at times.

[NuclearBuddha]

protoshepard wrote...

This is what I am talking about
*snip*
It looks like an inconspicous version of this. Sorry I could not enlarge it without pixelating it


It is an elite's leg from Halo, notice the extra joint.

No, and it also wouldn't make a lot of sense to encase a joint in the inflexible metal of her greaves.

If you want to see a leg that looks like an elite's, check out Grunt's legs.

The_Numerator wrote...
I'm afraid I can't speak for Elites, but if I'm making that image out correctly, you've circled its ankle joint. Actually, the circle is large enough that both its ankle and knee joints are circled.

Aha!  Someone who really does know what digitigrade means!

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:13 .