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[The_Numerator]

protoshepard wrote...

I circled the second joint above the ankle and accidentally got the knee too. As for the quarian, I was looking at that anle in the leg right there below the top of the boot. It, to me, looks like a joint which, to me, makes more sense than a curved bone. They wouldn't need the extra support with the lighter frames, but the extra mobility could be useful at times.

Oh, then I see what you're talking about. It's a tetrapod limb confusion sort of thing that is going on then.

Okay, here is an Elite I found. http://haloelite.org..._halo_elite.jpg

If I may clarify, from the thigh down: Thigh, ankle, tarsus, and metatarsus.

And it is correct that Elites are digitigrades like Garrus.

But here's the rub, and why I said it was a tetrapod limb confusion sort of thing: The limbs of plantigrades and digitigrades are homologous structures. That is, they evolved and differentiated from the same original appendage template.

The salient point is, that although not proportioned identically, they have the same joints.

What is the point, exactly? Well, if I understand, the point you were making was something like, "Look at elites, they have an ankle joint, a knee joint, and something between the knee and ankle joint. And Quarians may be like this too."

In fact, what you are looking at as the "ankle joint" is the connection between the tarsals and metatarsals-- Between the "foot" and the "toes". The Elite's "heel" is just slightly below the knee joint, and that "mystery" joint IS the ankle joint. Then you see the short ankle, and then the knee joint proper, and the thigh.

Modifié par The_Numerator, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[LTAshler]

protoshepard wrote...
*snip*

The_Numerator wrote...
I'm afraid I can't speak for Elites, but if I'm making that image out correctly, you've circled its ankle joint. Actually, the circle is large enough that both its ankle and knee joints are circled.

As I consider myself a rabid Halo fan and all-round knowlegible(SP?) person concerning the topic I feel a compulsive need to correct this. Elites' legs are not digitigrade, they have two knee joints (one reversed). The actual ankle joint is lower, at the base of the greaves.

Modifié par LTAshler, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[protoshepard]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

protoshepard wrote...

This is what I am talking about
*snip*
It looks like an inconspicous version of this. Sorry I could not enlarge it without pixelating it


It is an elite's leg from Halo, notice the extra joint.

No, and it also wouldn't make a lot of sense to encase a joint in the inflexible metal of her greaves.

If you want to see a leg that looks like an elite's, check out Grunt's legs.

The_Numerator wrote...
I'm afraid I can't speak for Elites, but if I'm making that image out correctly, you've circled its ankle joint. Actually, the circle is large enough that both its ankle and knee joints are circled.

Aha!  Someone who really does know what digitigrade means!

I hate it when I have to do something involving paint. I always get criticized. Anyway...I accept your point, but that is not what I am saying. It may not make sense to encase it unless for support, such as in combat. Also Grunt's leg may look more like an elite's leg, but that was not my point either. My point was that the angle at the back of the boot looks more like a joint than a curvature to me, but I may be imagining it. I was using the extra joint on the elite as a reference to the angle of the boot. Which I imagine would probably not look like that without reason.

[NuclearBuddha]

LTAshler wrote...
As I consider myself a rabid Halo fan and all-round knowlegeable(sp) person concerning the topic I feel a compulsive need to correct this. Elites' legs are not digitigrade, they have two knee joints (one reversed). The actual ankle joint is lower, at the base of the greaves.

See post above yours.  He explains in full.

What you're calling the ankle is actually the toe joint at the ball of the foot.  The ankle is what you're calling the reversed knee joint.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Weiser_Cain]

And to think all this started because I saw no movement between the knee and ankle.

[The_Numerator]

XD

Oh god. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to incur the wrath of the Halo faithful.

I'll just stick to Garrus and terrestrial analogues from now on. ;-p

Modifié par The_Numerator, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:34 .

[protoshepard]

The_Numerator wrote...

protoshepard wrote...

I circled the second joint above the ankle and accidentally got the knee too. As for the quarian, I was looking at that anle in the leg right there below the top of the boot. It, to me, looks like a joint which, to me, makes more sense than a curved bone. They wouldn't need the extra support with the lighter frames, but the extra mobility could be useful at times.

Oh, then I see what you're talking about. It's a tetrapod limb confusion sort of thing that is going on then.

Okay, here is an Elite I found. http://haloelite.org..._halo_elite.jpg

If I may clarify, from the thigh down: Thigh, ankle, tarsus, and metatarsus.

And it is correct that Elites are digitigrades like Garrus.

But here's the rub, and why I said it was a tetrapod limb confusion sort of thing: The limbs of plantigrades and digitigrades are homologous structures. That is, they evolved and differentiated from the same original appendage template.

The salient point is, that although not proportioned identically, they have the same joints.

What is the point, exactly? Well, if I understand, the point you were making was something like, "Look at elites, they have an ankle joint, a knee joint, and something between the knee and ankle joint. And Quarians may be like this too."

In fact, what you are looking at as the "ankle joint" is the connection between the tarsals and metatarsals-- Between the "foot" and the "toes". The Elite's "heel" is just slightly below the knee joint, and that "mystery" joint IS the ankle joint. Then you see the short ankle, and then the knee joint proper, and the thigh.

My point was that there are three joints: knee, lower joint(don't judge because I don't remember the term), ankle which you said was the joint between the tarsals and metatarsals when it is actually an ankle. The quarians apear to possibly have another similar joint in a similar location. I can't remember a lot of scientific terminology, but my point was the look of the joints and the number, The locations of said joints were unimportant to what I was saying. I only had these two for use anyway.

LTAshler wrote...

protoshepard wrote...
*snip*

The_Numerator wrote...
I'm afraid I can't speak for Elites, but if I'm making that image out correctly, you've circled its ankle joint. Actually, the circle is large enough that both its ankle and knee joints are circled.

As
I consider myself a rabid Halo fan and all-round knowlegible(SP?)
person concerning the topic I feel a compulsive need to correct this.
Elites' legs are not digitigrade, they have two knee joints (one reversed). The actual ankle joint is lower, at the base of the greaves.

I think the same of myself, but the point of this is you seem to undertand what I am saying. I am not circling the ankle as that is much lower. It is the lower joint.

Modifié par protoshepard, 03 novembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[LTAshler]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

LTAshler wrote...
As I consider myself a rabid Halo fan and all-round knowlegeable(sp) person concerning the topic I feel a compulsive need to correct this. Elites' legs are not digitigrade, they have two knee joints (one reversed). The actual ankle joint is lower, at the base of the greaves.

See post above yours.  He explains in full.

What you're calling the ankle is actually the toe joint at the ball of the foot.  The ankle is what you're calling the reversed knee joint.

Five joints in the Elite's leg (hip, knee, reverse knee, ankle, final (can't remember term)). This is mentioned in Contact Harvest, specifically, the section addressing lifts vs ladders in Brute cruisers. Sangheili foot structure is different from ours, they don't have a 'ball' of the foot like we do.

Anyhoo, yeah, quarian legs don't make a whole lotta sense. The curvature in their shins would give them some absolutely bizzare (and ineffective) calf muscles, and yet, Tali's pretty fast when she wants to be...

Modifié par LTAshler, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:16 .

[LTAshler]

The_Numerator wrote...

XD

Oh god. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to incur the wrath of the Halo faithful.

I'll just stick to Garrus and terrestrial analogues from now on. ;-p

Wrath? Hardly. It's fun to shout. (Anyone who misses the twisted reference fails at Tali fandom.)

[The_Numerator]

Don't worry about it. There's nothing more for me to add anyway. All the information is there. I did my bit representin' all the systematists in the hizzouse.

I am sorry I didn't provide any illustration of my own, though. I'm quite certain that I know the least about how to properly upload pictures of anyone here. But it's fairly clear as is.


Edit:

LTAshler wrote...
Wrath? Hardly. It's fun to shout. (Anyone who misses the twisted reference fails at Tali fandom.)

Cheeky.

Modifié par The_Numerator, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:21 .

[protoshepard]

LTAshler wrote...

Wrath? Hardly. It's fun to shout. (Anyone who misses the twisted reference fails at Tali fandom.)

Ah yes...aboard the Rayya. How could I forget. I was sitting there wishing I could a quarian like usual. Yes I have strange wishes. I had Shepard messing around with Tali after the trial when she made the quote you twisted and I cracked a larger smile than I usually do when talking to Tali. Nothing makes me happier than a happy Tali.

[protoshepard]

The_Numerator wrote...

Oh, then I see what you're talking about. It's a tetrapod limb confusion sort of thing that is going on then.

Okay, here is an Elite I found. http://haloelite.org..._halo_elite.jpg

If I may clarify, from the thigh down: Thigh, ankle, tarsus, and metatarsus.

And it is correct that Elites are digitigrades like Garrus.

But here's the rub, and why I said it was a tetrapod limb confusion sort of thing: The limbs of plantigrades and digitigrades are homologous structures. That is, they evolved and differentiated from the same original appendage template.

The salient point is, that although not proportioned identically, they have the same joints.

What is the point, exactly? Well, if I understand, the point you were making was something like, "Look at elites, they have an ankle joint, a knee joint, and something between the knee and ankle joint. And Quarians may be like this too."

In fact, what you are looking at as the "ankle joint" is the connection between the tarsals and metatarsals-- Between the "foot" and the "toes". The Elite's "heel" is just slightly below the knee joint, and that "mystery" joint IS the ankle joint. Then you see the short ankle, and then the knee joint proper, and the thigh.

Not meant to intimidate, but the elite you chose was drawn in a way that one of the joints was missing. What I kept saying was the ankle.

[Weiser_Cain]

Can we go back to talking about games I've played?

[Runescapeguy9]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Can we go back to talking about games I've played?

If you can relate them to directly to Tali. This isn't a general discussion thread.

[LTAshler]

"could a quarian"?

[protoshepard]

Sorry. I was using them to further and Tali to further my point.

[InHarmsWay]

Chapter 3 of Parallel Realities is up



http://social.biowar...581/blog/10871/

[LTAshler]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Chapter 3 of Parallel Realities is up

http://social.biowar...581/blog/10871/

If we're promoting Tali-fics here...  http://www.fanfictio...609/1/Awakening

[protoshepard]

I am slowly writing one, and after I get the first one or two done I will post it, here and at fanfiction.net.

[LTAshler]

I'm currently revising the fourth episode (chs 17-22) will get to episode 5 after that's posted, probly early this month. Constructive criticism is welcome, (hint, hint)...

[Ehunkel]

By the way, any news of a HD scan of a Tali litho? I'm quite upset I couldn't get one, so having a scan would cheer me up.

[Troodon80]

Ehunkel wrote...

By the way, any news of a HD scan of a Tali litho? I'm quite upset I couldn't get one, so having a scan would cheer me up.

Not yet. I think the lithos are supposed to be shipped mid-November.

Yeah, I was a little more than upset when I tried the first time. I had to stay up all night, well into the early hours of the morning...

"And it was totally worth it."

Yep... managed to get one... luck I suppose... They apparently sold out within the first 5-10 minutes of going on sale... On both times. But you might still have a chance when the rest of them go on sale this month.

Modifié par Troodon80, 03 novembre 2010 - 02:46 .

[Troodon80]

Also, to do with the "extra joint" or "ankle" debate; Tali has no additional "bones" or "joints," according to 3ds max, between the knee and the foot. It's just a curve.



Don't know if this info helps anyone. It's still purely open to speculation.

[Troodon80]

Shandepared wrote...

How do we even know where Tali's toes start? I was looking at her foot and watching her bounce animation but it isn't apparent to me that her toes actually bend. If they don't then certainly what looks like her ankle is actually the base of her toes and there would have to be another joint farther up (perhaps the one that gives the "shin" that curved shape) that is actually her ankle.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, but maybe this will help?

Shandepared wrote...
How her skeleton is rigged in 3ds max doesn't necessarily prove anything.

Don't get me wrong, I'm simply stating that there is absolutely no movement between the knee and foot. There could still be a joint there somewhere, but if there is, it's not obvious. I'd still go with a simple curve.