16775 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[NuclearBuddha]

fourstringwizard wrote...
I wouldn't say she was a poor squad leader.  Definitely not as good as Shepard or Garrus, but not poor.  She just happened to be dealing with crummy situations beyond her control.  On Freedom's Progress, she had a squad member who directly disobeyed her orders because he didn't trust Cerberus.  On Haelstrom, she accomplished her objective, but couldn't anticipate a whole Geth army swooping in to take them out. 

That said, i thought she was definitely more confident in ME2 - especially during her loyalty mission.  And I think her "I can't make you happy" line was more out of selflessness, not timidity.  Part of the reason that made her such a great LI. 

"Prazza, we agreed you'd let me handle this!"  Sorry, that's not exactly leadership.

I'm looking at the whole picture:  take the rejection lines for Tali.  They're all sort of "oh well, didn't expect that to work anyway" or "yeah, of course he doesn't see me like that."  Lack of self-confidence.

Edit:  Top

Użytkownik NuclearBuddha edytował ten post 13 wrzesień 2010 - 09:01

[RiptideX1090]

NuclearBuddha wrote...


"Prazza, we agreed you'd let me handle this!"  Sorry, that's not exactly leadership.

I'm looking at the whole picture:  take the rejection lines for Tali.  They're all sort of "oh well, didn't expect that to work anyway" or "yeah, of course he doesn't see me like that."  Lack of self-confidence.

Edit:  Top

Tali is an atrocious leader.

Personally think her father may have pushed her into it.

She's one of the best hackers and engineers in the galaxy.

Not so much in the leadership department.

[Wolf Warden]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

*Snip*

"Prazza, we agreed you'd let me handle this!"  Sorry, that's not exactly leadership.

I'm looking at the whole picture:  take the rejection lines for Tali.  They're all sort of "oh well, didn't expect that to work anyway" or "yeah, of course he doesn't see me like that."  Lack of self-confidence.

I agree, Tali may be one hell of a combat engineer but she is better suited to support.  I think she has confidence in her abillities in  a fight ("want some more?") but she does not have confidence in her abillity to inspire and lead - that is Shepard's job and she says many times how glad she is to be working with him again (especially if you romance her)

[kraidy1117]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Tali's leadership abilities are existent, but going by the Mass Effect general combat rule, if you are not on Shepard's team at the immediate moment, you will lose.

Her leadership ablities are meduim.

[Volrath937]

NuclearBuddha wrote...
"Prazza, we agreed you'd let me handle this!"  Sorry, that's not exactly leadership.

I'm looking at the whole picture:  take the rejection lines for Tali.  They're all sort of "oh well, didn't expect that to work anyway" or "yeah, of course he doesn't see me like that."  Lack of self-confidence.

I'd say without a doubt that she got her command positions due to nepotism rather than merit. It would certainly explain why Prazza was willing to risk commandeering the other quarians, rather than waiting until they got back to the Flotilla to file a grievance.

Użytkownik Volrath937 edytował ten post 13 wrzesień 2010 - 09:08

[Mobius_118]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...


"Prazza, we agreed you'd let me handle this!"  Sorry, that's not exactly leadership.

I'm looking at the whole picture:  take the rejection lines for Tali.  They're all sort of "oh well, didn't expect that to work anyway" or "yeah, of course he doesn't see me like that."  Lack of self-confidence.

Edit:  Top

Tali is an atrocious leader.

Personally think her father may have pushed her into it.

She's one of the best hackers and engineers in the galaxy.

Not so much in the leadership department.

Her role as a tech specialist is a better fit anyway.

[greed89]

is it that tali is a bad leader or do Quarians suck as straight up fighters?



a chicken and the egg thing i know

[Pacifien]

I think when it comes to telling Donnelly and Daniels how to keep the Normandy running efficiently, she's a good and fair boss. Tell Donnelly and Daniels the best defensive position to hold off the Collectors, maybe not so much.

[Volrath937]

greed89 wrote...

is it that tali is a bad leader or do Quarians suck as straight up fighters?

a chicken and the egg thing i know

Well, everytime we've seen quarians in action they've been slaughtered. Kal'Reegar even says that they cannot win a conventional war due to their situation. 

 I'm guessing you meant medium. I agree. At least Reegar has a chance of living under her orders [that Prazza and his team disobeyed]. With Zaeed everyone but him dies.

 
Was Tali in charge of the marines? I thought she was only in direct control of the science team.

Użytkownik Volrath937 edytował ten post 13 wrzesień 2010 - 09:14

[LordPennlocke]

Well, Prazza did not survive because of Tali's lack of leadership. Albeit she had enough to get them as far as she did on Freedom's Progress. Prazza also did not have the discipline that Reegar had. This would be like comparing Grunt to Wrex, Grunt is reckless and charges off into the thick of battle without an inkling of self-preservation or tactics. Wrex on the other hand had centuries of battle experience/time to develop discipline, and followed Shepard's orders.

Even Reegar would have died out of a sense of duty. Regarding Tali's response after she is rescued on Haestrom, I believe she would decline any position of leadership regarding the Fleet, save for a sense of loyalty to her people.

Użytkownik LordPennlocke edytował ten post 13 wrzesień 2010 - 09:22

[Killjoy Cutter]

Leading 100000 or 17 million people from a position on a council is not the same as leading 12 people from the front line.

Użytkownik Killjoy Cutter edytował ten post 13 wrzesień 2010 - 09:26

[XX55XX]

I think that Tali's lack of leadership ability and lack of self-confidence is what makes her one of Mass Effect's more appealing romances. Males do like girls who want direction from another man, and Tali's relationship with Shepard is not completely mutual; she is just a girl looking for someone else to pour her heart into.

For example, throughout the romance, it is Shepard who continously offers Tali comfort. Tali rarely ever does the same for Shepard. The relationship is completely one-sided at times and is reflective of her inability to even lead herself.

But, that does not discount the fact that she is a brave young woman who cares very much the welfare of her people.

[Killjoy Cutter]

XX55XX wrote...

I think that Tali's lack of leadership ability and lack of self-confidence is what makes her one of Mass Effect's more appealing romances. Males do like girls who want direction from another man, and Tali's relationship with Shepard is not completely mutual; she is just a girl looking for someone else to pour her heart into.

For example, throughout the romance, it is Shepard who continously offers Tali comfort. Tali rarely ever does the same for Shepard. The relationship is completely one-sided at times and is reflective of her inability to even lead herself.

But, that does not discount the fact that she is a brave young woman who cares very much the welfare of her people.

Part of that can be chalked up to the very brief nature of the relationships in ME2.., it's just a few dialogues and a couple of cutscenes or whatever.  We never get a chance to see more.

[Spartanburger]

Newguy here!

I think you may not be thinking about different types of leadership. Yes, Tali is not a very good combat leader but as the leader of a research team (they imply that they did not know that Veetor would program the mechs to attack them IIRC) she would probably be better off because she would know how to get the job done efficiently and effectively because she herself does it.

I don't want to get involved in the suit log, NulcearBuddha's interpretation of it is perfect for me. I can't see any otherr logical conclusion aside for femsheps.

As for the 'Hood' thing: I believe that it is some kind of family/clan clothing from before the morning war. Like "I wear this because I am [the leader of?] Clan Zorah." or something like that.




As I wish to jump on the bandwagon I decided to open up photoshop and create something:


I was originally planning on making it into a forum signature but I am having trouble with resizing.

[MS-06 Zaku II]

I am so glad that the Thread is back! Yay!



Alright, time to post a topic: Tali mentioned in the club on the Citadel in ME1 that she really liked the music and the feel of how energetic and lively the place was, on that note, what music do you think she likes besides that sort of dance music?



I always wanted to have an idea given that knowing what kind of music people like tells a lot about them and the way they tick.

[Wolf Warden]

XX55XX wrote...

I think that Tali's lack of leadership ability and lack of self-confidence is what makes her one of Mass Effect's more appealing romances. Males do like girls who want direction from another man, and Tali's relationship with Shepard is not completely mutual; she is just a girl looking for someone else to pour her heart into.

For example, throughout the romance, it is Shepard who continously offers Tali comfort. Tali rarely ever does the same for Shepard. The relationship is completely one-sided at times and is reflective of her inability to even lead herself.

But, that does not discount the fact that she is a brave young woman who cares very much the welfare of her people.

I'm not sure any of the romances except Jacob and Liara ever ask how Shepard is doing or try to make them feel better.

[Someone With Mass]

I think it was Prazza's own fault that he and his squad were killed. Leader or no leader, it doesn't take a tactical genius to figure out that it's more efficient and safe if everyone is working together.

[NuclearBuddha]

XX55XX wrote...

I think that Tali's lack of leadership ability and lack of self-confidence is what makes her one of Mass Effect's more appealing romances. Males do like girls who want direction from another man, and Tali's relationship with Shepard is not completely mutual; she is just a girl looking for someone else to pour her heart into.

For example, throughout the romance, it is Shepard who continously offers Tali comfort. Tali rarely ever does the same for Shepard. The relationship is completely one-sided at times and is reflective of her inability to even lead herself.

But, that does not discount the fact that she is a brave young woman who cares very much the welfare of her people.

Yet she's the one to intitiate the romance by suggesting linking environments.  It's a little more complex than the standard "drawing a wallflower out of her shell" kinda thing.

And the romance scene has Tali in the lead right until the end.  She takes Shep's social crutch datapad away.  She leads him to the bed.

[Collider]

I disagree that it's not mutual. It is not one sided - both parties are genuinely interested.

[NuclearBuddha]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Leading 100000 or 17 million people from a position on a council is not the same as leading 12 people from the front line.

True.  But we've no idea that she's any better at politics.

[XX55XX]

Wolf Warden wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

I think that Tali's lack of leadership ability and lack of self-confidence is what makes her one of Mass Effect's more appealing romances. Males do like girls who want direction from another man, and Tali's relationship with Shepard is not completely mutual; she is just a girl looking for someone else to pour her heart into.

For example, throughout the romance, it is Shepard who continously offers Tali comfort. Tali rarely ever does the same for Shepard. The relationship is completely one-sided at times and is reflective of her inability to even lead herself.

But, that does not discount the fact that she is a brave young woman who cares very much the welfare of her people.

I'm not sure any of the romances except Jacob and Liara ever ask how Shepard is doing or try to make them feel better.

If that is true, then the romances could use some real improvement. Too much one-sidedness here.

But come on, look at Tali. She's young, unsure, and feels vulnerable most of the time. Even if the romance were to be expanded significantly, I doubt much would change, given the timeframe. But, if the romance is to be continued in ME3, then maybe Tali would start doing the same for Shepard, because she would become more confident at expressing her thoughts and feelings in a more "open" manner.