16775 réponses à ce sujet

[LordMandalore]

You guys may enjoy this.

[Link112]

GAH! I meant Illium! >.<



I don't know why I said Omega. Egh, I've played through ME2 at least 9 or 10 times, I should remember better than that.

[NuclearBuddha]

FsDxRAGE wrote...
Makes me wonder if Tali was squinting when Shep took off her mask if here eyes are sensitive.
I can't help but think that would be really cute

FsD, bringin' the d'aaawwww, just like old times.

[thesuperdarkone]

What do you think of Tali's combat skills? Here's my idea:

Tali sucks. She has terrible cc because her combat drone has a 30sec cooldown and her AI hack is good for 2 missions and she has a shotgun, whereas legion has Widow, GSB, Drone, and AI Hack. And Overload > ED. Basically for geth its Zaeed + Legion = WIN, but Tali + anything = lame

[dearlyblvd]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

What do you think of Tali's combat skills? Here's my idea:
Tali sucks. She has terrible cc because her combat drone has a 30sec cooldown and her AI hack is good for 2 missions and she has a shotgun, whereas legion has Widow, GSB, Drone, and AI Hack. And Overload > ED. Basically for geth its Zaeed + Legion = WIN, but Tali + anything = lame

I think that this will depend a lot on what is your character's class, the difficulty that you are playing and how do you play.

I only did a full playthrough for both games, playing on veteran difficulty in ME1 and insanity difficulty in ME2. On both games I played as a soldier. As I didn't have any skills in decryption or electronics, I chose my team more based on their roles instead of their personalities. So I didn't bring Wrex or Ashley. Basically I switched between Garrus, Tali and Liara, leaving Kaidan behind because I wasn't much a fan of him compared to these other three characters.

In ME1, I used the assault rifle for the entire game, eventually switching to the shotgun. I realized that I was frequently in combat situations with short/medium range, so I thought that Tali's shotgun was really good.

In ME2, I felt that the combat dynamic changed a lot with the addition of the headshot system, the limited ammo and the special ammos being powers instead of upgrades. Also, you can pick up the insanity difficulty from the beggining, which changes a lot of things, because your enemies automatically have more layers of defense.

I used all the weapons available for my class and I constantly micromanaged the disruptor and the incendiary ammo. As my character was killed with a high frequency when facing enemies face to face, I tried to use cover in every battle. This made me feel like weapons with a higher damage per shot were more valuable. As the shotgun is made for close combat, I felt that it was the least useful weapon, as I rarely hit all the bullets in my oponnents. Still there were great situations to use it, like when facing unexpected hordes of husks or when facing big enemies with shields, like the YMIR Mech.

So yea, I felt that any teammate that was wielding a shotgun wasn't good as someone wielding a Vindicator assault rifle.

That being said, Tali's powers still are pretty good. I didn't put any point in AI hacking and I mastered "combat drone", "quarian machinist" and "energy drain".

As the combat drone dies quite easily on insanity difficulty, I picked "explosive drone". This skill was used as a diversion for my enemies, to give me more time to kill them using heightened adrenaline rush and to recover my shields when I was injuried.

I chose "quarian mechanic" to have a higher damage per second and "energy drain" is similar to "overload", doing double damage against shields. As the cooldown for the active skills are quite high, I ended up using the combat drone much more often than energy drain. So in this aspect, Legion theorically looks better, as he (or should I say say it?) has the best sniper rifle in the game for a teammate, compared to Tali's standard shotgun, but the difference between their roles on the party is very small.

I only picked Legion in the ending of the game, so I still prefer Tali as a teammate, as I enjoy her personality more. It's a matter of taste.

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 12 février 2011 - 08:23 .

[Homebound]

Tali + Area Energy Drain in Hardcore during Geth-heavy missions = Tali-Tank that rivals a Krogan Wrex.

Modifié par Just_mike, 12 février 2011 - 08:26 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Even though I love Tali as a character, I do prefer Legion as the tech guy if I am doing an insanity playthrough or something. I think that that is because shotguns aren't nearly as effective in ME2, mind you the shotgun on Kasumi's mission is better.

Like Mike said, energy drain kicks ass. But in terms of combat, I still prefer Legion.

But I don't like it when people use Tali's combat skills as fodder against her for people not liking her. She is a brilliant character, just Legion is my personal preference for a tecchy.

[Nodscouter]

Well you know, people use ''She betrayed Shepard'' and ''Everyone else likes Tali so I want to be different'' as excuses to not like Tali, and I think her not being good at combat is a better reason than that, even thought I disagree.

[Alienmorph]

I still don't catch where the betrayal motivation comes from... she does the exact opposite of betray him...

[Homebound]

Alienmorph wrote...

I still don't catch where the betrayal motivation comes from... she does the exact opposite of betray him...

I was thinkin the same thing, when did tal-tal betray shepdawg?

Oh and I use Tali as a tank character. She has shotgun and she has chitika. I give her the Mechanic spec. and I make chitika explody. Though she has no AI hacking capabilities, I find the whole shield absorb and the very distracting kamikazi droid combo to be very effective. She has literally stalled a YMIR mech for me while I ran for my life. :3

EDIT: on hardcore difficulty.

Modifié par Just_mike, 12 février 2011 - 09:38 .

[dearlyblvd]

Just_mike wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...

I still don't catch where the betrayal motivation comes from... she does the exact opposite of betray him...

I was thinkin the same thing, when did tal-tal betray shepdawg?

+1
I have no idea of what Nodscouter is talking about.

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 12 février 2011 - 09:46 .

[Alienmorph]

it's not Nodscouter idea, there are for real people who think that she betrayed Shepard. And, for real, I don't understand why.

[Nodscouter]

Exactly. With Garrus, she is probably the only one who doesn't betray Shepard. The only thing that I can think of that is even slightly close to that is freedoms progress or maybe her argument with Legion. I have no problem with people who dislike Tali for her personality, but people who make up their own arguments or say ''Tali is sooo mainstream'' to dislike Tali, really pisses me off. Especially if they start spouting banners like those ''No number of forum posts will keep her in my ME3'', that's just trolling.

[Collider]

I think Tali would protect her people if Shepard threatened them. But if Shepard acts according to what she believes is right, I think she would be loyal.

[Nodscouter]

It's an interesting argument. It's actually quite hard to see who she is more loyal too. I actually think she doesn't know herself.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 12 février 2011 - 10:31 .

[Collider]

I think she knows. She's more loyal to her people. This is why she denounces Shepard if you do certain actions, like siding with Legion.

[MadMapper]

Well, I don't expect haters to rely on arguments based on truth, you know.

[Galimor_001]

LordMandalore wrote...

You guys may enjoy this.

*Ahem!* You guys did see this, right? Warms my heart:wub:

[Alienmorph]

Surely she's more loyal to her people, at least until the end of her trial and before the confrontantion with Legion, then if you acted in the right way (and I'm not necessairly talking about the romance) she's loyal to Shepard at least as much as to her people.

[Rune-Chan]

LordMandalore wrote...

You guys may enjoy this.

Omg that is hilarious.

[thesuperdarkone]

 I'm probably in the minority in general, but Jack is one of my favorite characters, Tali is one of my least favorite (although I really like all most of the characters, so that doesn't say much).

That being said, the reason I dislike her is that the villified admiral that is hardest on Tali and labeled a "geth apologist" which is supposed to carry some huge negative stigma even with Shepard, is absolutely right. A bunch of machines achieved sentience. The first (or one of the first) instances of this I believe was when a geth asked a quarian about its soul. That to me doesn't seem to be a violent action and clearly displays an ability to be reasoned with, at least for the time being.

Now, for all of you have read Enders Game and particularly the sequel Speaker for the Dead, that makes them Ramen (not the noodles). Ramen are sentient life that you can reason with. They were not varelse (sentient life that you can't reason with). The significance of that is that they are every bit as entitled to life as other species (yes, they are a new species), especially since there is no indication that they weren't willing to live peacefully (I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember it from dialogue in ME1). Essentially what this all means is that the Quarians attempted xenocide (attempted extinction of a sentient, reasonable species), and Tali was not only okay with that, but wants to start a war in order to take out land the Quarians lost because of the attempted xenocide (I may need to lay off the Ender's Saga). My interactions thus far with Legion only confirm my thoughts on this.

I've seen a lot of hate towards Ashley on this board for being racist. As Ashley explains it her only real misgivings with other species is that she thinks they aren't as likely to look out for humans as they are for themselves. Though I think the squad interactions prove her wrong to an extent (though I would say [or at least hope] she was generalizing and probably was more like XO Pressly on this one) her distrust of other species is nothing compared to what Tali wishes on the Geth.

Modifié par thesuperdarkone, 12 février 2011 - 01:50 .

[Null_]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

 I'm probably in the minority in general, but Jack is one of my favorite characters, Tali is one of my least favorite (although I really like all most of the characters, so that doesn't say much).

That being said, the reason I dislike her is that the villified admiral that is hardest on Tali and labeled a "geth apologist" which is supposed to carry some huge negative stigma even with Shepard, is absolutely right. A bunch of machines achieved sentience. The first (or one of the first) instances of this I believe was when a geth asked a quarian about its soul. That to me doesn't seem to be a violent action and clearly displays an ability to be reasoned with, at least for the time being.

Now, for all of you have read Enders Game and particularly the sequel Speaker for the Dead, that makes them Ramen (not the noodles). Ramen are sentient life that you can reason with. They were not varelse (sentient life that you can't reason with). The significance of that is that they are every bit as entitled to life as other species (yes, they are a new species), especially since there is no indication that they weren't willing to live peacefully (I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember it from dialogue in ME1). Essentially what this all means is that the Quarians attempted xenocide (attempted extinction of a sentient, reasonable species), and Tali was not only okay with that, but wants to start a war in order to take out land the Quarians lost because of the attempted xenocide (I may need to lay off the Ender's Saga). My interactions thus far with Legion only confirm my thoughts on this.

I've seen a lot of hate towards Ashley on this board for being racist. As Ashley explains it her only real misgivings with other species is that she thinks they aren't as likely to look out for humans as they are for themselves. Though I think the squad interactions prove her wrong to an extent (though I would say [or at least hope] she was generalizing and probably was more like XO Pressly on this one) her distrust of other species is nothing compared to what Tali wishes on the Geth.

Tali was born centuries after morning war. She only learned the quarian side of the story.She never met a geth that would do anything other than try to kill as many quarians as possible(before legion).You really cant expect her to want peace with the Geth. If you were teached for your whole life to hate some other race then you would hate them. Tali can be reasoned with and becuse of Legion and ParagonShepard she will change her opinion on the Geth in ME3..The quarian that you should hate is admiral Xen(wants to control the geth) and admiral Garrel(who pushes for war no metter what)

All Quarians responsible for "shut down all geth" decision are dead for hundreds of years.

[Rune-Chan]

Null_ wrote...

Tali was born centuries after morning war. She only learned the quarian side of the story.She never met a geth that would do anything other than try to kill as many quarians as possible(before legion).You really cant expect her to want peace with the Geth. If you were teached for your whole life to hate some other race then you would hate them. Tali can be reasoned with and becuse of Legion and ParagonShepard she will change her opinion on the Geth in ME3..The quarian that you should hate is admiral Xen(wants to control the geth) and admiral Garrel(who pushes for war no metter what)

All Quarians responsible for "shut down all geth" decision are dead for hundreds of years.

Indeed, and this is the one conflict of interest my Shepard would have with Tali.

While I think the Quarians have been mistreated since creating the geth, I strongly believe the geth revolt and the result of them being driven from their homeworld was the quarians fault.

The problem of course, as you pointed out, is that all quarians alive today know is what they have been told from their relatives, none of those around now could possibly know what it was like back then.

This presents a lot of problems:

The Council are punishing the quarians for the mistakes of their ancestors (Sins of the father...)
The quarians hate the geth for their exile.
The quarians are divided in three ways on how to deal with the problem.
The geth are actually two different factions.

While I disliked Zaal'Koris vas Qwib Qwib for his treatment of both my Shepard and Tali, it is actualy him that I side with in the debate over the whole quarian issue.

I hope Tali doesn't hate me for that in ME3.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 12 février 2011 - 02:17 .

[Nodscouter]

I might be in the minority here seeing as I pushed for war against the Geth. I mean, the Geth literally shoots everyone who enters their space. I guess I wouldn't be against if they tried to be peaceful but as I see they seem to have little intention to do that (Despite what Legion said).

[Rune-Chan]

Nodscouter wrote...

I might be in the minority here seeing as I pushed for war against the Geth. I mean, the Geth literally shoots everyone who enters their space. I guess I wouldn't be against if they tried to be peaceful but as I see they seem to have little intention to do that (Despite what Legion said).

True, but the entire galaxy is hostile against them. The quarians tried to exterminate them simply because they obtained self awareness and the rest of the galaxy want them gone because they are sentient machines.

The fact that the geth haven't travelled much beyond the Perseus Veil ("Heretics" excluded) suggests that they are not needlessly violent. They'd shoot anyone who enters their space because they see everyone as a threat.