16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Nodscouter]

And the entire galaxy is hostile against them because they shoot everyone they see because they perceive everyone as a threat because the entire galaxy is hostile against them. It's a bad circle, but it's not likely to be stopped in the near future.

[Rune-Chan]

Nodscouter wrote...

And the entire galaxy is hostile against them because they shoot everyone they see because they perceive everyone as a threat because the entire galaxy is hostile against them. It's a bad circle, but it's not likely to be stopped in the near future.

Indeed it is.

[Alienmorph]

Surely the circle won't end if you'll perpetrate it answering with fire to the fire. Legion says that Geth can accept the peace if Quarians too will, that their past actions were caused by their will to survive and then there's Zaal'Koris (and quite likely Shala'Raan too) that can push for the peace from the quarian's side.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 12 février 2011 - 02:52 .

[Nodscouter]

Yet I still doubt the majority of Quarians would accept peace with the Geth. You have to remember that for the last 300 years they've made sure their children hated the Geth more with each passing generation. The only way to stop the circle as I see it is to destroy the Geth. I honestly believe that there is no way in hell that any of the galaxy's nations will accept peace with Geth in the next, say, 500 years.

[Alienmorph]

Let them see that they can return to the homeworld because the geths cleaned it and I'm quite sure that at least they'll shut their mounths, even if they'll still distrust them.

[Spartanburger]

Well, it doesn't have to be outright peace.

It could just be a ceasefire. Remember: The Geth just want to be left alone. As long as they are not fired upon or investigated, and once the war is won, they will seclude themselves from the rest of the Galaxy.

[Rune-Chan]

Alienmorph wrote...

Let them see that they can return to the homeworld because the geths cleaned it and I'm quite sure that at least they'll shut their mounths, even if they'll still distrust them.

Indeed. I never see the quarians and geth becoming friends, but I imagine peace is plausible in the right circumstances.

Especially if the geth fleet help the Migrant Fleet fight the Reapers. Obviously I mean the geth help fight the Reapers and aid the Migrant Fleet in doing so, I am not suggesting they suddenly love the quarians.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 12 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[Alienmorph]

It's likely that we'll see krogans and rachnis fighting side by side in the end if we did the right choices, why not quarians and geths?

Modifié par Alienmorph, 12 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[Nodscouter]

But I also doubt that if the Geth allowed the Quarians to return to Rannoch, that the Quarians would accept. With 300 years of being convinced that the Geth are ruthless, liars and all that, the admirals (Excepting Koris) won't accept that. I mean, what's stopping them from believing it's a trap?

[Rune-Chan]

Nodscouter wrote...

But I also doubt that if the Geth allowed the Quarians to return to Rannoch, that the Quarians would accept. With 300 years of being convinced that the Geth are ruthless, liars and all that, the admirals (Excepting Koris) won't accept that. I mean, what's stopping them from believing it's a trap?

Like I said in my above post, if the geth provide aid to the quarians during the fight aganst the Reapers they may grudgingly accept that they want a cease-fire.

[Spartanburger]

Does anyone remember the ending to Halo 3 where the Admiral person says to the arbiter "I can never forgive what your kind did to my people. But... you have my thanks, for being with him to the end."

I imagine the Peace/Truce/Ceasefire to be something like that. The Quarians will never be able to completely forgive what the Geth did. But... that does not mean that they will forever be enemies.

[Alienmorph]

Nodscouter wrote...

But I also doubt that if the Geth allowed the Quarians to return to Rannoch, that the Quarians would accept. With 300 years of being convinced that the Geth are ruthless, liars and all that, the admirals (Excepting Koris) won't accept that. I mean, what's stopping them from believing it's a trap?

They almost don't have other choices. The reapers are cominc, and the civilians will have to be layed away from the Fleet in case of open war (Ang'Herrel says it), there are no other planets easily colonizable for quarians after centuries of biological weakening, and if I remember well, in the novels is said that the Migrant Fleet is already at the saturation line, in terms of population, resources and operationality of the main ships, so whathever will happen quarians are at short of options. They need the homeworld, and quick... and if it's mean that they'll have to accept the unacceptable they won't have any other choice to do it.

[Volrath937]

Alienmorph wrote...
They almost don't have other choices. The reapers are cominc, and the civilians will have to be layed away from the Fleet in case of open war (Ang'Herrel says it), there are no other planets easily colonizable for quarians after centuries of biological weakening, and if I remember well, in the novels is said that the Migrant Fleet is already at the saturation line, in terms of population, resources and operationality of the main ships, so whathever will happen quarians are at short of options. They need the homeworld, and quick... and if it's mean that they'll have to accept the unacceptable they won't have any other choice to do it.

They do have other choices, that is precisely what Rael and now Daro are working on. I'd hope Bioware takes the time to fully flesh out an alternative path for those of us who don't wish to play diplomacy with a rampant network of computer programs. As for what Tali would think about the situation, we know she hates Geth without a doubt, but to what extent she'd be willing to accept a solution is not clear. 

[Link112]

For those saying peace isn't likely for a long time, I would point to the Paragon option during the confrontation between Tali and Legion.



"Thank you, Legion. I understand your intentions. How about if I give you some non-classified material to send?"



"We would be grateful."



And THAT is one EXTREMELY significant step, even if it is only one step, forward. If there's a chance for peace, or at least a ceasefire, that hope rests with Tali and Legion. It's been said before, Tali is highly admired within the Quarian community. I'm sure she would be listened to (or at least her opinions would be considered) if she pushed for co-existence with the Geth.



We may not see peaceful co-existence within the ME3 timeline, but I think (if Shepard played his cards right) the groundwork will be laid, and I would also think that we would be treated to a glimpse of the homeworld in one of the ending cinematics, Geth and Quarians living side-by-side.

[Volrath937]

Link112 wrote...

For those saying peace isn't likely for a long time, I would point to the Paragon option during the confrontation between Tali and Legion.

"Thank you, Legion. I understand your intentions. How about if I give you some non-classified material to send?"

"We would be grateful."

Given the tone of her voice, I interpreted this as a show of willingness to work alongside the construct for the sake of Shepard's mission, on his word, instead of a magical realization that her entire world view on Geth was wrong.

Link112 wrote...

And THAT is one EXTREMELY significant step, even if it is only one step, forward. If there's a chance for peace, or at least a ceasefire, that hope rests with Tali and Legion. It's been said before, Tali is highly admired within the Quarian community. I'm sure she would be listened to (or at least her opinions would be considered) if she pushed for co-existence with the Geth.

We may not see peaceful co-existence within the ME3 timeline, but I think (if Shepard played his cards right) the groundwork will be laid, and I would also think that we would be treated to a glimpse of the homeworld in one of the ending cinematics, Geth and Quarians living side-by-side.

Tali holds no actual political power, it would be kind of silly to expect an entire policy change among the quarian people to occur simply because she, as lovely as she might be, pushes for one. Now, it's essentially a given that Paragon Shepard's will be able to create some sort of peace, as it's been pushed pretty heavily on us that we are supposed to be buddy-buddy with True Geth now, but co-existence, outside Geth platforms being used as a form of reparations for what it did to the quarians, seems a bit too far of a stretch considering what the quarians have had to suffer through since the genocide. 

[Alienmorph]

Volrath937 wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...
They almost don't have other choices. The reapers are cominc, and the civilians will have to be layed away from the Fleet in case of open war (Ang'Herrel says it), there are no other planets easily colonizable for quarians after centuries of biological weakening, and if I remember well, in the novels is said that the Migrant Fleet is already at the saturation line, in terms of population, resources and operationality of the main ships, so whathever will happen quarians are at short of options. They need the homeworld, and quick... and if it's mean that they'll have to accept the unacceptable they won't have any other choice to do it.

They do have other choices, that is precisely what Rael and now Daro are working on. I'd hope Bioware takes the time to fully flesh out an alternative path for those of us who don't wish to play diplomacy with a rampant network of computer programs. As for what Tali would think about the situation, we know she hates Geth without a doubt, but to what extent she'd be willing to accept a solution is not clear. 

I was talking about the homeworld, not the geth. They need their planet... in one way or another, so I guess that if the peace is set most of quarians will just accept it for their need to survive... but at the same time even geth's apologists like Zaal'Koris might support "other ways" to deal with geths if they become the most suitable.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 12 février 2011 - 04:35 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

As for what the dark one said, I believe that Tali's hatred of the geth stems from her father. Even then, she recognises from the events on the Alerei that geth are sentient. She shows horror at the experiments her father performed, therefore she recognises that they can feel pain. She is not nearly as hostile as her father, but yes, she hates geth.

As for the quarians turning on the geth, the geth were created as VI's. But by linking them to a network so they could work more efficiently, they gained sentience - something the quarians could not have anticipated, seeming though they created the geth originally as non sentient VI's.

The quarians then went to war against the geth, scared of a possible revolt. The geth retaliated, and drove them from their homeworld, their colonies, their way of life and making them confined to suits for there entire lives.

I agree, that the quarians were wrong to go to war against the geth, as you said, they were only asking questions through curiosity rather than (as far as we know) demonstrating any hostile intent.

Tali may be against the geth, but only because that was how she was taught. But she didn't cause the Morning Wars, and I don't believe she says at any point that she approved of the quarians going to war against the geth, just that she has resentment against the geth for what they did. And that is a shared feeling amongst her entire race (except for Vas Quib Quib.)

[Rune-Chan]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

 But she didn't cause the Morning Wars, and I don't believe she says at any point that she approved of the quarians going to war against the geth, just that she has resentment against the geth for what they did. And that is a shared feeling amongst her entire race (except for Vas Quib Quib.)

In ME1 if you choose the "They were defending themselves" option in the conversation about the geth revolt she says "We didn't have any choice!", which suggests that she thought it was necessary, although that isn't the same as approving.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

As for what the dark one said, I believe that Tali's hatred of the geth stems from her father. Even then, she recognises from the events on the Alerei that geth are sentient. She shows horror at the experiments her father performed, therefore she recognises that they can feel pain. She is not nearly as hostile as her father, but yes, she hates geth.
As for the quarians turning on the geth, the geth were created as VI's. But by linking them to a network so they could work more efficiently, they gained sentience - something the quarians could not have anticipated, seeming though they created the geth originally as non sentient VI's.
The quarians then went to war against the geth, scared of a possible revolt. The geth retaliated, and drove them from their homeworld, their colonies, their way of life and making them confined to suits for there entire lives.
I agree, that the quarians were wrong to go to war against the geth, as you said, they were only asking questions through curiosity rather than (as far as we know) demonstrating any hostile intent.
Tali may be against the geth, but only because that was how she was taught. But she didn't cause the Morning Wars, and I don't believe she says at any point that she approved of the quarians going to war against the geth, just that she has resentment against the geth for what they did. And that is a shared feeling amongst her entire race (except for Vas Quib Quib.)

This ^^

Side Note: Does anyone know how to get into Clan Zorah? I want to join (Huge Tali fan)

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Again, it may have been what the quarians were taught.

Although the codex suggests that quarians initiated the Morning Wars, it does not specify whether or not the geth provoked them. The only sign of developing sentience was the 'do geth have a soul' line. Quarians may have a reason to think that they were defending themselves from the geth.

Maybe we will know more in ME3.

[Rune-Chan]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Again, it may have been what the quarians were taught.
Although the codex suggests that quarians initiated the Morning Wars, it does not specify whether or not the geth provoked them. The only sign of developing sentience was the 'do geth have a soul' line. Quarians may have a reason to think that they were defending themselves from the geth.
Maybe we will know more in ME3.

Oh, I am pretty certain it is a taught attitude, the same way people who are racist nowadays tend to have racist parents/family/friends, the same goes for homophobes.

From the information given to the player, there doesn't seem to be any justification beyond them assuming the geth would revolt once they realised they were effectively slaves.

ME3 may clear things up should we get Legion in the game or come across other geth with the capacity of speech.

[Volrath937]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Again, it may have been what the quarians were taught.
Although the codex suggests that quarians initiated the Morning Wars, it does not specify whether or not the geth provoked them. The only sign of developing sentience was the 'do geth have a soul' line. Quarians may have a reason to think that they were defending themselves from the geth.
Maybe we will know more in ME3.

Tali's hatred of Geth may have started out as something taught to her, but being an intelligent young woman, having been around the galaxy and seeing the things she has, I'd argue her hatred now is based on the realization of the magnitude of the crimes Geth committed against her people. How could she not hate it for what's happened in her life because of it? 

And yes, quarians initiated the Morning War out of fear of the eventual revolt that comes with simulating a sapient consciouness. If I remember correctly, the ban on AI research was already in effect at the time, so a history of rampancy would've been a factor in why they tried to shut Geth down. 

Modifié par Volrath937, 12 février 2011 - 08:09 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Geth weren't created as AI's, they were created as VI's, but because they were linked onto the same platform and were effectively the same mind, they evolved that way to gain sentience.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Geth

So they obviously did not anticipate the geth would become sentient.

I disagree with Tali's views of the geth, but at the same time, I can understand it. It is a resentment shared by the quarian race.

When humans thought that the world was flat, no one thought otherwise until someone travelled around the globe and discovered that it was round. I think it is the same with quarians blaming the geth.

[ChopSuaay]

They hate the geth because they drove them out of their worlds. They hate them too because the generations are taught to. Constant hate circle. Maybe it'll stop or maybe not. I do wish for it stop though. The geth deserve a chance to redeem themselves. Maybe Mass Effect 3 will make it so. DO WANT THAT TO HAPPEN!

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

^ My opinion exactly. And put into less words, thankyou, I do tend to ramble