16775 réponses à ce sujet

[ImmortalWarrior]

Alienmorph wrote...

Still convergent evolution doesn't mean that everything will be egual, especially the macroscopic things. Maybe quarians, and in general Rannoch's animals, doesn't have fur because of the planet's medium temperature, that's highter that Earth's, or Rannoch's "mammals" evolved from dinosaur-like creatures and their're covered of short proto-feathers and not by fur. Or they have fur but most of their bodies are covered by scales, and so on. "Pseudo-mammalian" it's a very vague concept...

Yes but just because the planet is warmer doesn't mean that hair is not possible.  Hair protects the skin from the sun and heat just as well as it insulates from the cold.  It acts as a temperature regulator.  Camels have thick hair and they thrive in the desert.  Kangaroos have hair and Austrailia isn't exactly a chilly continent.

Turians are the ones more likely to have evovled from dinosaur like creatures.  Remember that the intelligent species in Mass Effect have only had upwards of 100 thousand years to evolve.  Assuming the reapers didn't find them intelligent enough to harvest them at the last invasion.  100 thousand years is not enough time for a T-rex to evolve into a live child bearing humanoid mammal with mammary glands.  Pardon my cynicism.  It is highly unlikely that quarians are reptillian based.

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Any thoughts on what I discussed earlier for quarians eyes?

Modifié par ImmortalWarrior, 15 février 2011 - 03:32 .

[Rune-Chan]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...

Any thoughts on what I discussed earlier for quarians eyes?

I support your idea on that.

[NuclearBuddha]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...
Yes but just because the planet is warmer doesn't mean that hair is not possible.  Hair protects the skin from the sun and heat just as well as it insulates from the cold.  It acts as a temperature regulator.  Camels have thick hair and they thrive in the desert.  Kangaroos have hair and Austrailia isn't exactly a chilly continent.

Turians are the ones more likely to have evovled from dinosaur like creatures.  Remember that the intelligent species in Mass Effect have only had upwards of 100 thousand years to evolve.  Assuming the reapers didn't find them intelligent enough to harvest them at the last invasion.  100 thousand years is not enough time for a T-rex to evolve into a live child bearing humanoid mammal with mammary glands.  Pardon my cynicism.  It is highly unlikely that quarians are reptillian based.

I should note that 100k years isn't really enough time for much evolution at all.  Humanity's oldest ancestors go back much, much farther.  So presumably quarians have had just as much time to go from proto-quarian to the modern species.

That said, I support quarians that are close to mammals as we understand the term.

[ImmortalWarrior]

Machines Are Us wrote...

I support your idea on that.

*fist bump*

Yeah,  I keep reading everyones ideas and I can't shake the need to go with what makes the most sense for what we see.  We aren't guessing blindly, we can still see a fair amount of detail behind her mask.

NuclearBuddha wrote...

I should note that 100k years isn't
really enough time for much evolution at all.  Humanity's oldest
ancestors go back much, much farther.  So presumably quarians have had
just as much time to go from proto-quarian to the modern species.

That said, I support quarians that are close to mammals as we understand the term.

I see your point.  I didn't realize it but it is likely that dozens to hundreds of harvest cycles could occur before a planets life form's evolve to sentient beings.

Modifié par ImmortalWarrior, 15 février 2011 - 03:45 .

[phonypapercut]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...

Now that I've given my 2 cents on that I have an idea on the hair thing, and I feel it is quite obvious.  So many people here want aliens to be alien.  But I distinct remember reading about a theory that Hawking feels explains what we might see in creatures from another world.  For the life of me I can't remember what he called it but it was very much like this one, Convergent Evolution: http://en.wikipedia....rgent_evolution

Basically, an organism living in very similar conditions in different areas (or planets in this case) will typically evolve along a similar path.  The best way to think of it is water taking the path of least resistance.  If we find a planet almost identical to earth with life, you can expect to find many similarities in earth's life now or life that existed in the past on earth.

This whole idea strongly supports quarians having hair.  Tali herself states that mammals on their homeworld evolved a very symbiotic relationship with the flora.  Mammals were the primary pollenators.  Mammals give birth to live children, nurse their young, and almost always have hair.  Making them extremely alien for the sake of being extremely alien doesn't support what we see at all and would, imho, be stupid.  Quarians obviously can't look very close to humans, but you would have to be blind to not see that the similarities are striking.

Pretty much all we know about Rannoch is that it orbits a less energetic star than Sol and it's more arid than Earth, i.e. how it is different from our own planet. Even if Rannoch were otherwise exactly the same as Earth, convergent evolution doesn't have anything to do with two species resemblence to one another but the emergence of similar biological traits. Cephalopod and vertebrate eyes are an example of convergent evolution, not two specific species of cephalopod and vertebrate having eyes. Not to mention that the two structures differ greatly.

Tali uses the words "large animals". The only reference to quarians as mammals is in the codex and I should hope it was used in a way to suggest that they most closely resemble terrestrial mammals, as opposed to terrestrial reptiles for example. Not that they literally are mammals, which would be impossible.

The resemblence is striking and unrealistically improbable. All the more reason not to add to it with hair.

[NuclearBuddha]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...
I see your point.  I didn't realize it but it is likely that dozens to hundreds of harvest cycles could occur before a planets life form's evolve to sentient beings.

Yeah, even 50k or 100k years ago, humans would have been almost the modern version, but there'd have been no civilization for the Reapers to get all angry about.  How far we've come in 6k or so years, eh?

By contrast, the quarians only have a 2k year head start on humanity.

Edit:  I should also note that the ME setting implies the Protheans might have fiddled with humanity somehow.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 15 février 2011 - 03:53 .

[ImmortalWarrior]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Yeah, even 50k or 100k years ago, humans would have been almost the modern version, but there'd have been no civilization for the Reapers to get all angry about.  How far we've come in 6k or so years, eh?

By contrast, the quarians only have a 2k year head start on humanity.

Edit:  I should also note that the ME setting implies the Protheans might have fiddled with humanity somehow.

Ya, if memory serves me correctly homosapiens have only officially been around for 15-18k years.  Before that it was homoerectus and cro-magnon man.   Without looking it up for exact numbers, to even get to cro magnon we probably evolved for 250 thousand years or more.

Just think, one thousand years ago we were just coming out of the dark ages and 100 years ago the wright brothers made the first flight.  Now we are making huge steps to quantum computing and the only thing stopping us from using He3 to He3 fusion (no neutron flux, ie. completely radiation free ) as a power source is the rarity of He3 on earth.  Imagine where we could be in 100 more years.  These types of breakthroughs are why I don't believe a word of what scientist naysayers say today. Those same naysayers tried to tell Gallileo that the Earth was the center of the universe and they "couldn't be wrong" at the time.

Modifié par ImmortalWarrior, 15 février 2011 - 04:14 .

[Angmir]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...


Turians are the ones more likely to have evovled from dinosaur like creatures.  Remember that the intelligent species in Mass Effect have only had upwards of 100 thousand years to evolve.  Assuming the reapers didn't find them intelligent enough to harvest them at the last invasion.  100 thousand years is not enough time for a T-rex to evolve into a live child bearing humanoid mammal with mammary glands.  Pardon my cynicism.  It is highly unlikely that quarians are reptillian based.

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Any thoughts on what I discussed earlier for quarians eyes?

Replying to your 100 thousand years long evolution - it is a total bulll%$%^. I thought it as clear that Reapers did pursue only spacetraveling species, leaving the undeveloped ones by. They might get intrested about globaly spread species like XIXth-century humans, but only should they discover  them accidentaly. It is why they builded the citadel - to keep track of all spacefaring civilizations.
Quarians could be developing for millenias undetected, Reapers considering them to be little more then animals, as they did in our case.

I myself think Quaraian are a spieces of a  mamal origin - like dogs, cats or possibly horses. (native to theirs homeplanet ecology ofc.) Ornitoreptilian origin seems far less likely too me, still enythig's possible given we know that little about them.

As for the Tali eyes - they are definatly glowing, the color is eighter wite of light blue.

Skin is definatly pale - as a result of no exposure to sunlight.

Thinking about how Quarians spended they entire lifes in suits for couple generations, brings me the idea that they cannot have hair (or at least no bodyhair) - even if they had one in the past. That what would happen to humans if they never lived in natural enviroment.  The Hair are in fact very susceptible to evolution proces. Just look on difrent races among humankind ? Asians have hardly any hair apart from the head hair. 

[Rune-Chan]

Angmir wrote...



Thinking about how Quarians spended they entire lifes in suits for couple generations, brings me the idea that they cannot have hair (or at least no bodyhair) - even if they had one in the past. That what would happen to humans if they never lived in natural enviroment.  The Hair are in fact very susceptible to evolution proces. Just look on difrent races among humankind ? Asians have hardly any hair apart from the head hair. 

300 years is nowhere near enough time to evolve in a way that hair would no longer exist, assuming it did before. That kind of thing would take thousands of years.

[Alienmorph]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...

Still convergent evolution doesn't mean that everything will be egual, especially the macroscopic things. Maybe quarians, and in general Rannoch's animals, doesn't have fur because of the planet's medium temperature, that's highter that Earth's, or Rannoch's "mammals" evolved from dinosaur-like creatures and their're covered of short proto-feathers and not by fur. Or they have fur but most of their bodies are covered by scales, and so on. "Pseudo-mammalian" it's a very vague concept...

Yes but just because the planet is warmer doesn't mean that hair is not possible.  Hair protects the skin from the sun and heat just as well as it insulates from the cold.  It acts as a temperature regulator.  Camels have thick hair and they thrive in the desert.  Kangaroos have hair and Austrailia isn't exactly a chilly continent.

Turians are the ones more likely to have evovled from dinosaur like creatures.  Remember that the intelligent species in Mass Effect have only had upwards of 100 thousand years to evolve.  Assuming the reapers didn't find them intelligent enough to harvest them at the last invasion.  100 thousand years is not enough time for a T-rex to evolve into a live child bearing humanoid mammal with mammary glands.  Pardon my cynicism.  It is highly unlikely that quarians are reptillian based.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any thoughts on what I discussed earlier for quarians eyes?

Mine were only examples of the hudge range of possibilities that the definitions like "pseudo-mammal" hide. None of them is most likely of the others, or of yours. Plus, the Reapers harvest only the civilizations enought advanced to reach the Relays and use them... so I don't think that the actual species evolved only in 50 000-100 000 years. Protheans knew that the solar system and humans existed, and so the Reapers when they attacked them, but they didn't care of them until they reached the Charon Relay... and from evolving from advanced apes to humans was necessary something like 2 million of years... and even counting only the first humanoids we're talking about something like 500 000 years. 

Modifié par Alienmorph, 15 février 2011 - 05:38 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

The fact that quarians advanced so rapidly makes me wonder why the reapers chose humans to focus on...

As for the how far humans have advanced in the last 6000 years, in terms of technology we have. But as someone who has studied ancient Greeks, Egyptians and Romans a lot, we have not come as far as many think. But that is a whole different debate

But anyway, Prothean interference (the discovery of the Charon mass relay) jumped human technology forward 200 years. I wonder if the discovery of some Prothean relic did the same for the quarians? Allowing them to survive in their envirosuits, or perhaps part of their envirosuit was made through Prothean technology?

Because to me, I know that quarians have always been brilliant at tech, but they didn't have their exo-suits before Rannoch was taken by the geth. So how were they developed so quickly, when quarians have such a weak immune system that any germ exposure (and germs are EVERYWHERE) causes a major allergic reaction?

Although, maybe I'm thinking into it too much...

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

True, but I was under the impression that their immune system deteriorated even further after losing Rannoch.
Also, there are sources that suggest quarians didn't wear suits 800 years ago, even when on the Citadel and going offworld. So I thought they didn't have their suits developed until WHAM! Rannoch is taken by the geth and they have to evacuate onto the Migrant Fleet.

Modifié par Tasha vas Nar Rayya, 15 février 2011 - 06:38 .

[NuclearBuddha]

It's a reasonable extrapolation that quarians might have worn suits in some cases before the Morning War. It if took them several months to acclimate to new colonies like said, brief visitors might not have wanted to enjoy a lengthy sickness just to land and conduct business. Same deal with the Citadel. I don't think it would have been a continuous thing, but quarians choosing not to acclimate themselves or risk the ever-changing environment might have worn suits.



I don't think it's any special tech for quarian suits, though. I mean, everyone has space suits. The quarian version is just very refined and geared toward long-term wear.

[ImmortalWarrior]

Tali says in me2 that the quarians have always had a weaker immune system. She says that they adapt to the foreign contaminants rather than fight them off in the same way most other species do. When they were suddenly forced to live in spaceships, the circumstances wouldn't have allowed them freely expose themselves all the time. They wouldn't have had the resources to tend to those who got sick from exposure. So they probably began ensuring their environments were sterilized to prevent a strain on medical and personnel resources. Over decades, their adaptive immune systems see less exposure to contaminants and they become even more vulnerable.

Based on the codex and her in game explanation, there is no reason why they could not acclimate to exposure on planets and colonies again. The Citadel....not so much because of the variety of aliens. They could probably have begun routine safe exposures to help improve their immune response but the quarians simply cannot spare the downtime for their people. Manpower is too valuable to them to do this until they get a planet to live on.

I agree with Buddha, I would expect them to have had space suits anyways.  They simply built upon their functionality as the need for it became more prevalent.

Modifié par ImmortalWarrior, 15 février 2011 - 07:18 .

[Chickenpotpie]

So if you sneeze on a Quarian, they die? That's kinda weak.

[AdmiralCheez]

Chickenpotpie wrote...

So if you sneeze on a Quarian, they die? That's kinda weak.

More like you'd be picking buckshot out of your testicles for a week.  Dem shotguns is srs bsns.

Seriously, I think Tali's a lot toughter than people give her credit for.  Even Garrus fears her wrath.

Also, Area Energy Drain is my preferred bonus power of the week.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 15 février 2011 - 07:52 .

[Chickenpotpie]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Chickenpotpie wrote...

So if you sneeze on a Quarian, they die? That's kinda weak.

More like you'd be picking buckshot out of your testicles for a week.  Dem shotguns is srs bsns.

Quarians can't fight. If they actually existed, I'd be beating them up with ny bare hands and laughing my butt off while doing it.

[AdmiralCheez]

Chickenpotpie wrote...

Quarians can't fight. If they actually existed, I'd be beating them up with ny bare hands and laughing my butt off while doing it.

Grunt disagrees.

"Humans, asari, salarians, all soft.  Quarians, not so much."

Anyway, enjoy your snack, cuz I'm done feedin' ya

[Chickenpotpie]

[Edit: Content removed. Off-Topic.]

Modifié par Pacifien, 15 février 2011 - 08:32 .

[CroGamer002]

Chickenpotpie wrote...

Quarians can't fight. If they actually existed, I'd be beating them up with ny bare hands and laughing my butt off while doing it.

Try to punch them while they use their shotguns.

[Chickenpotpie]

Mesina2 wrote...

Chickenpotpie wrote...

Quarians can't fight. If they actually existed, I'd be beating them up with ny bare hands and laughing my butt off while doing it.

Try to punch them while they use their shotguns.

A Quarian would be too scared to lift a gun to me. I'm 5'9", in good shape, and I can lift 85 lbs!

[CroGamer002]

Ignore what I said.

Let's keep being on topic.

Modifié par Mesina2, 15 février 2011 - 08:18 .