16775 réponses à ce sujet

[NuclearBuddha]

Nodscouter wrote...
(Slightly reminiscent of the Quarian issue)

You can't even begin to guess.

ImmortalWarrior wrote...
We can't exclude the possibility that acclimating to a particular type of contaminant wouldn't give resistance to a very similar contaminant.  Though there are thousands of different bacterias in and on the human body, much of them can be associated with a particular variety.  Adjusting to the presence of one may infact add resistance to dozens of others as well.  Giving protection against ones that she may never have come into contact with.  Works the same for allergies in humans.

Sure, but Shep's an active guy.  He tracks in stuff from everywhere, eats (and drinks) all sorts of things, meets (and sometimes shoots) half a dozen different alien species in the course of a day.  Just leaning against wall can pick up something new.

Anything is possible, of course, since the biology is up to BW.  I'm just suggesting a non-optimistic extrapolation.  Thematically, I think that a relatively easy acclimation sort of cheapens the sacrifices Shep and Tali are making to be with each other.

Edit:  Top:

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 17 février 2011 - 04:42 .

[Rune-Chan]

Nodscouter wrote...



Also, calling me naive is probably more of an Ad Hominem attack than an actual argument. You don't have to be naive to believe that they didn't have to sex there and naiviety has nothing to do with this discussion.

That was poor/over aggressive wording on my part, I apologise.

I have just always been under the impression that with all the romances the point was to show the character feelings for one another by having sex as they may never have the chance to again, I cannot see Tali risking herself for a kiss when having sex wouldn't be that much more of a risk, not given the fact they are going on a mission they both believe they can die on.

On a side-note that must be quite embarassing for any characters having flings seeing how damn easy that "Suicide" Mission was.

[SlottsMachine]

I'm with you Nodscouter, in my opinion the only romances that concluded with sex where Miranda's and Jacob's.

[Alienmorph]

So... the old "they did or not had sex?" discussion? For me the answer is quite positive... first, most of the contaminants that Shepard can bring aboard are eliminated by the sterilinzing devices in the airlock (remember ME1... there are no reasons to think that the new Normandy have different protocols about the decontamination), second... Mordin gives to Shepard a manual with suitable postures for human-quarian relations, and third... in a future where where medicine is advanced enough to almost bring back a man from death (ok, Lazarus was high-sperimantal tecnology but still...) is that so hard to imagine that there are immuno-boost and antiseptic good enough to help someone with extreme immunodeficencies, especially considered that there's and entrire species with them?

[NuclearBuddha]

Calinstel wrote...
And liked the pic, never seen it before Buddha

The CZ folks trawl for new Tali pics on a regular basis.

[MadMapper]

Alienmorph wrote...

So... the old "they did or not had sex?" discussion? For me the answer is quite positive... first, most of the contaminants that Shepard can bring aboard are eliminated by the sterilinzing devices in the airlock (remember ME1... there are no reasons to think that the new Normandy have different protocols about the decontamination), second... Mordin gives to Shepard a manual with suitable postures for human-quarian relations, and third... in a future where where medicine is advanced enough to almost bring back a man from death (ok, Lazarus was high-sperimantal tecnology but still...) is that so hard to imagine that there are immuno-boost and antiseptic good enough to help someone with extreme immunodeficencies, especially considered that there's and entrire species with them?

I'd add "In a future where an armor can be turned into a gel that can hack open doors".

It's a fictional world, guys: Shep made humanity proud once more and shared his greatness with Tali, otherwise the screen wouldn't have faded to black! 

(hmmm, I could draw a short comic strip about that...but damn!  So much other ideas I have! And so little time too!  )

Modifié par MadMapper, 17 février 2011 - 06:10 .

[Nodscouter]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...



Also, calling me naive is probably more of an Ad Hominem attack than an actual argument. You don't have to be naive to believe that they didn't have to sex there and naiviety has nothing to do with this discussion.

That was poor/over aggressive wording on my part, I apologise.

I have just always been under the impression that with all the romances the point was to show the character feelings for one another by having sex as they may never have the chance to again, I cannot see Tali risking herself for a kiss when having sex wouldn't be that much more of a risk, not given the fact they are going on a mission they both believe they can die on.

On a side-note that must be quite embarassing for any characters having flings seeing how damn easy that "Suicide" Mission was.

Do we really know how much higher risk stripping her suit would be? I imagine it would be at least quite a bit more risky and yea sure, ''This might be our last chance to spend time together'' and all that, but this is a mission that could decided the fate of a galaxy.  If Tali, the normandy's Chief Engineer and extremely good tech, would get so sick she couldn't fight and all that, I think Tali would have given up the chance of sex right before the relay. Besides, they could always do it later once they're through the mission.

And just one thing. I don't want to flare this up again, but how is thinking they didn't have sex naive? I honestly don't really see the connection.

[Null_]

Nodscouter wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...



Also, calling me naive is probably more of an Ad Hominem attack than an actual argument. You don't have to be naive to believe that they didn't have to sex there and naiviety has nothing to do with this discussion.

That was poor/over aggressive wording on my part, I apologise.

I have just always been under the impression that with all the romances the point was to show the character feelings for one another by having sex as they may never have the chance to again, I cannot see Tali risking herself for a kiss when having sex wouldn't be that much more of a risk, not given the fact they are going on a mission they both believe they can die on.

On a side-note that must be quite embarassing for any characters having flings seeing how damn easy that "Suicide" Mission was.

Do we really know how much higher risk stripping her suit would be? I imagine it would be at least quite a bit more risky and yea sure, ''This might be our last chance to spend time together'' and all that, but this is a mission that could decided the fate of a galaxy.  If Tali, the normandy's Chief Engineer and extremely good tech, would get so sick she couldn't fight and all that, I think Tali would have given up the chance of sex right before the relay. Besides, they could always do it later once they're through the mission.

And just one thing. I don't want to flare this up again, but how is thinking they didn't have sex naive? I honestly don't really see the connection.

They were 99% sure it was one way trip so no "after the mission"
that beign said it faded to black not becuse children might be watching(its 18+ game) but becuse they wanted to leave that to everyone'spersonal interpretation(curse my english...but you know what I mean).
So lets finish this discussion and focus on other important subjects involing Tali.

Is it only me or its weird that Shepard is the one hacking doors,datapads and so on. Wouldnt it be cool if you could order your tech specialist to do it if you got one in team? Its especially akward if you do it in combat... so Kasumi/Tali fight while shepard-heavy armored one man army open doors? Thats just illogical

Modifié par Null_, 17 février 2011 - 06:51 .

[Nodscouter]

Agreed on that. It would be great to do some ''Open the door, we'll cover you!'' scenes by yourself. Would be especially fun if you could force Grunt or Jack to do it.

[NuclearBuddha]

MadMapper wrote...
Shep made humanity proud once more and shared his greatness with Tali

LOL.

Null_ wrote...
Is it only me or its weird that Shepard is the one hacking doors,datapads and so on. Wouldnt it be cool if you could order your tech specialist to do it if you got one in team? Its especially akward if you do it in combat... so Kasumi/Tali fight while shepard-heavy armored one man army open doors? Thats just illogical

It wasn't so strange for me.  My Shep's an infiltrator, so he's probably all about breaking and entering.  Back in ME1 this mattered more since some characters actually had hacking and others didn't.  I can kinda see why they changed that:  we have a larger team now and it would kinda be a bummer if you always had to have the designated hacker on the squad.

Again, not a big deal to me due to the class I chose.  And I'd probably still have Tali in the squad all the time anyway.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 17 février 2011 - 07:11 .

[MadMapper]

@Nodscouter

Something like THIS maybe? ^__^

(dunno if you already seen that )

Modifié par MadMapper, 17 février 2011 - 07:10 .

[Wolf Lover]

MadMapper wrote...

@Nodscouter

Something like THIS maybe? ^__^

(dunno if you already seen that )

LOLZ that's pretty good!

[Rune-Chan]

Nodscouter wrote...


And just one thing. I don't want to flare this up again, but how is thinking they didn't have sex naive? I honestly don't really see the connection.

To use a real world example:

You are at a house party.
You see a man and a woman go into a room and shut the door.
'X' minutes later they come out looking hot and sweaty (but fully clothed).

A naive person would think nothing of it, assuming there is a perfectly innocent reason for why they'd be like that.
A cynical/realistic person would assume that they just had sex.

My reasoning in the game:

You talk to Tali about trusting you with linking environments and she says:

"The tradition also signifies a willingness for, um intimacy."

A hint she is sexually interested.

You then show interest and she says:

"You deserve to be... happy with someone. I can't do that. No matter how much I..."

Sex is common in a healthy relationship so I don't think she is talking about just kissing here.

"If I am going to be with you, I want it to be real. I need to feel your skin against mine."
"I need to feel your skin against mine, to share myself with you before we fly off into the final battle"

She could have quite easily said "I want to feel your lips against mine" if kissing is all she had in her mind.

A minor and ambigious one but she says:

"I was going to bring music, but didn't know what you'd like."

Most people don't put music on to get them in the mood for kissing.

Then there is the mask removal, the kiss and the fade to black. As aforementioned, fade-to-black is traditionally used to signify a sex scene without "corrupting poor childrens souls".

and finally:

"Just so you know, I am running a fever, I've got a nasty cough, and my sinuses are filled with something I can't even describe, and it was totally worth it."

The final part is a bit of an interesting reaction to someone who was just kissed isn't it?

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 17 février 2011 - 07:27 .

[Null_]

oh man...I just dont know where to begin.. you are wrong on so many things.
1. She never even kissed someone before.
2. She says just kissing someone could kill her(during LM)... Now do you really think having sex would just cause fever IF kissing can kill?
3. She has hidden her love for 2 years. A few kisses is enough to be "totally worth it"

In almost every single point you made you show Tali as typical human female who had sex a few times before. Tali is not human, her culture is totaly diffrent,she never even kissed someone.
Please can we just stop discussing about this? For someone who never revealed his/her face (let alone kissed someone) a few hugs and kisses would be "totally worth it".

Dont call anyone naive just becuse they have diffrent views... which are actually more "realistic" than yours.
This discussion is pointless, unless you have seen what happens after the fade out during the scene.

Modifié par Null_, 17 février 2011 - 07:48 .

[Rune-Chan]

Null_ wrote...

oh man...I just dont know where to begin.. you are wrong on so many things.
1. She never even kissed someone before.
2. She says just kissing someone could kill her(during LM)... Now do you really think having sex would just cause fever IF kissing can kill?
3. She has hidden her love for 2 years. A few kisses is enough to be "totally worth it"

In almost every single point you made you show Tali as typical human female who had sex a few times before. Tali is not human, her culture is totaly diffrent,she never even kissed someone.
Please can we just stop discussing about this? For someone who never revealed his/her face (let alone kissed someone) a few hugs and kisses would be "totally worth it".

Dont call anyone naive just becuse they have diffrent views... which are actually more "realistic" than yours.
This discussion is pointless, unless you have seen what happens after the fade out during the scene.

I was asked specifically about what I said and I answered it.

No more. No less.

If they hadn't asked me about it I would have left it at the apology for potentially offending them.

[N085]

The fade to black was there for the people to believe what they want to believe, if you believe they didn't have sex then that was it, if you believe they did have sex then they did. Simple really.

[Spectre_907]

I think the notion that Tali and Shepard did not have sex simply because it was not shown contradicts the dialogue. Considering that the quarian in Eternity on Illium hints at the existence of quarian/other race sexual contact, it is not as risky for infection as actual fluid contact as a result of a kiss.

The scene itself does not focus on the fact that they had sex, we know that happened and to show it is redundant, but to emphasize on the fact that Tali and Shepard were finally able to share intimacy, unrestricted. This is the arc of the romance sub-plot.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 17 février 2011 - 08:26 .

[Nodscouter]

Machines Are Us wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...


And just one thing. I don't want to flare this up again, but how is thinking they didn't have sex naive? I honestly don't really see the connection.

To use a real world example:

You are at a house party.
You see a man and a woman go into a room and shut the door.
'X' minutes later they come out looking hot and sweaty (but fully clothed).

A naive person would think nothing of it, assuming there is a perfectly innocent reason for why they'd be like that.
A cynical/realistic person would assume that they just had sex.

While you did have some other good and valid points (I still doubt the idea of them having sex) I wanted to respond to this specificially. This doesn't really have anything to do with naiviety. There's nothing wrong with having sex, therefore being cynical or naive has nothing to do with that. ''Perfectly innocent'', why is sex not that exactly? If this did happen, it would matter on how perceptive the person was. If the person was say, drunk and not so perceptive normally, he/she wouldn't notice the (quite obvious) signs that they weren't just in there talking or something like that. A sober, more perceptive person would notice them being hot, sweaty, them being in there alone for some time, and understand what had happened in there. Nothing to do with how naive a person is. The case you describe is completely based on your ability to perceive and to draw logical conclusions.

Not sure if this might have been just poor wording on your part though.

Edit: Null, try not to overreact. I didn't take offense at him calling me naive. If you're feeling angry or frustrated take a few deep breaths before you post. It's better if you're calm when you post. Else it's hard to get a good debate going.

Spectre, my reason for not believing they had sex has nothing to do with that we didn't see it. I can say I would have been surprised if they did have sex and did show it seeing as they try to make these kinds of games for most ages.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 17 février 2011 - 08:24 .

[jacobOriley]

[Quote]:The fade to black was there for the people to believe what they want to
believe, if you believe they didn't have sex then that was it, if you
believe they did have sex then they did. Simple really.The fade to black was there for the people to believe what they want to
believe, if you believe they didn't have sex then that was it, if you
believe they did have sex then they did. Simple really.:[Quote]

Thank-you....that's how I view this discussion

@Null, I don't think Machine was intentionly being rude, his posts appear to be for discussion purpose

Don't ask me how I messed up this post....it's an art form

Modifié par jacobOriley, 17 février 2011 - 08:52 .

[Nodscouter]

MadMapper wrote...

@Nodscouter

Something like THIS maybe? ^__^

(dunno if you already seen that )

Yea, already seen that. Still great though.

''Eat those ghosts Tali. We'll cover you!''

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

@ Angmir from a couple of pages back, I am not in the mood for being patronised. And I didn't say it was a theory, it isn't necessarily what I believed happened, and I did just say it was just 'the image that popped into my head,' when she mentioned the whole 'linking suits' thing.

As for doing the deed itself, it is like Garrus romance scene, it's open to interpretation. After the Fox crap, they had to be careful.

[Nodscouter]

Fox crap?

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Probably the wrong thread, but when ME1 got released, Fox News launched all sorts of crap against it because of the sex scenes (mostly, the Liara and Femshep one.) Of course, they hadn't played the game, and Bioware was able to defend it successfully because of the biology and nature of the asari.

And so, this event may have affected (mostly) the Tali and Garrus romance scenes because Bioware were forced to be more careful after the stupid accussation Fox News threw at them.