16775 réponses à ce sujet

[jacobOriley]

Saphra Deden wrote...



 It might give her a new appreciation for the sanctity of life.

  That justs strikes me as an odd way to look at Tali. I don't have any doubt Tali values the sanctity of life, but you don't take time for that when you're being shot at. Just pull a shotgun out and enter aggressive negoiations about whose sanctity is more valuable.






"Shepard, there's a geth up there with a piece of your armor on."

Modifié par jacobOriley, 30 mars 2011 - 11:11 .

[Link112]

The current suit set-up for Quarians would make no logical sense if they were "slimy" as you put it, cloned. Now stop being a xenophobic troll, heh

Modifié par Link112, 30 mars 2011 - 11:09 .

[jacobOriley]

Saphra Deden wrote...

She needs a reality check. I don't think she's a psychopath or anything, but I suspect the fact that unlike everyone else she's never had to kill other quarians means she has a unique perspective on her violent life.

Ok Saphra, I'll bite.  Why does our favorite quarian need a reality check? She's already held responsible for the sins of her ancestor's ( the geth ), she has no world to call her own and she is trapped in a suit for her entire life.

What in the world is so important about killing your own kind, that it would significantly change your reality as a 'combat engineer' with a mission to perform?

[damage incorp96]

Saphra Deden wrote...

damage incorp96 wrote...

In this way she is the same as Shepard who also only fights other humans that don't share his values and beliefs.

I'm sure she would kill if ordered too, but it would be a terrible situation for her. She says that quarians are expected to be loyal. Quarians just don't go to war for each other. They haven't for the last three hundreds and. The quarians don't even have a death penalty.

Having to fight other quarians, for any reason, would be hard on her I imagine. I also think it would be good for her. About time she killed her own people for a living instead of everyone else. It might give her a new appreciation for the sanctity of life.

I don't think Tali would willingly kill another Quarian unless it was a Golo type character as I said in my earlier post.
 I assume you appreciate the sanctity for life. Did you see someone die, or kill someone to teach you that? Of course I'm being  facetious and don't mean to offend you, but why would Tali need to kill one of her own to learn that? I understand where you're coming from that she makes comments when she kills, but they all do. I would assume that in the heat of battle you would be jacked up on adrenaline and saying all kinds of things. I would be more concerned if she didn't say anything, but was more of a cold psycho killer.  
BTW if you haven't done so yet read 'Ascension'. From some of your comments and insights I assume you have, but if not it is really worth the read. Golo'Mekk vas Usela, or just Golo is in it. He killed several Quarians and led the attack that Tali references on the Idenna. This Quarian, as dangerous as he was(not a murderer when exhiled, but worse) was not killed by the flotilla, but exhiled. The book shows life on the Flotilla, and yes they have sterilized showers.

[Clonedzero]

Link112 wrote...

The current suit set-up for Quarians would make no logical sense if they were "slimy" as you put it, cloned. Now stop being a xenophobic troll, heh

xenophobic? i always figured they were reptilian or maybe amphibious based lifeforms just based on how they look and how the geth look. also the fact that they wear their suits like 100% of the time. i dont see any sterile clean rooms for them to shower or clean in

plus she's supposed to be alien but all this fan art makes her look like an exotic human is all. plus even if they do have hair, they probably ALL shave their heads and anything else to make wearing the suits easier.

all i was saying was that i liked tali as a character, she has that cute awkward personality that really grows on you, but the problems posed from her whole species based situation made me not want to persue the relationship, gave the entire thing a very tragic romance vibe that i didnt really want.

like i was doing the romance and it was adorable and then it got to the point where she's like "yeah i could die but its ok" and my reaction was "woah, thats not ok, its a bit too dangerous" and now she's indifferent

i dunno, seriously too much of a tragic romance that could never work for my tastes.

[jacobOriley]

Clonedzero wrote...

]xenophobic? i always figured they were reptilian or maybe amphibious based lifeforms just based on how they look and how the geth look. also the fact that they wear their suits like 100% of the time. i dont see any sterile clean rooms for them to shower or clean in
X

It says right in the codex somewhere that humans and quarians are very similar. Just because you don't get to see the cleaning facilities available on the Fleet, doesn't mean they don't exsist.

[Clonedzero]

jacobOriley wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

]xenophobic? i always figured they were reptilian or maybe amphibious based lifeforms just based on how they look and how the geth look. also the fact that they wear their suits like 100% of the time. i dont see any sterile clean rooms for them to shower or clean in
X

It says right in the codex somewhere that humans and quarians are very similar. Just because you don't get to see the cleaning facilities available on the Fleet, doesn't mean they don't exsist.

yeah i shoulda checked the codex before commenting on that, but that was just the vibe i got from them for some reason.

for the cleaning facilities i was talking about the normandy not the fleet.

but the whole tragic romance thing makes sense right? because i got really bummed out as i progressed through my tali romance as i started to realize how doomed and difficult a romance of that nature would be. that completely turned me off the whole tali romance though sadly, even though i love her personality. knowing that realistically it would never work out put a huge damper on things for me.

[damage incorp96]

Saphra Deden wrote...

damage incorp96 wrote...

I don't think Tali would willingly kill another Quarian unless it was a Golo type character as I said in my earlier post.

I believe she'd do whatever she was ordered to do. She's a good quarian and a good quarian follows orders.

She hid information about her father from the fleet that cost many Quarians their lives. Traitorous information and asked Shepard to lie for her. Her father's actions killed those Quarian and she feels responsible because he was doing it for her.
Hey, wait a minute... I was trying to show that she doesn't just follow orders, but I see in a round about way she has killed Quarians, or at least feels the after effects of it and covering it up. Hmmm maybe she is a little twisted

[jacobOriley]

@ Clonedzero

Makes sense to you? of course.... it's your viewpoint and the way you see your Shepard. That doesn't make you wrong.

There's an author of some good fanfic who visits this thread and said in one of his stories, "An overwhelming obstacle to Shepard, is just another step up.' ( or something close to that ). That's the way I play my Shepard.

Modifié par jacobOriley, 31 mars 2011 - 12:42 .

[Quole]

Saphra Deden wrote...

damage incorp96 wrote...

She hid information about her father from the fleet that cost many Quarians their lives.

Nobody ever ordered her to do anything. She deferred to her captain in this case, a human. That wasn't her choice either.

damage incorp96 wrote...

Hey, wait a minute... I was trying to show that she doesn't just follow orders, but I see in a round about way she has killed Quarians, or at least feels the after effects of it and covering it up. Hmmm maybe she is a little twisted

You do make a good point. She might not even be aware of her selfish tendencies. It is also worth noting that if she is exiled she seems to care very little about whether or not the fleet destroys itself in a war. When I discovered that about her I was a little disgusted.

She also refuses to see the situation from Shepard's perspective if he hands over the evidence. I understand her pain, but ultimately Shepard is the one with the valid argument. Perhaps she has lived a privilaged and sheltered life after all.

Really? That does not seem like something she would do.

[jacobOriley]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You do make a good point. She might not even be aware of her selfish tendencies. It is also worth noting that if she is exiled she seems to care very little about whether or not the fleet destroys itself in a war. When I discovered that about her I was a little disgusted.

She also refuses to see the situation from Shepard's perspective if he hands over the evidence. I understand her pain, but ultimately Shepard is the one with the valid argument. Perhaps she has lived a privilaged and sheltered life after all.

Tali is willing to be exiled to prevent the her father's good deeds for the Fleet  from being from being tarnished by his one foolish and costly mistake, the other reason was to keep the data away from the admirals who would use it to destroy the Fleet in a pointless war with the geth. There's no selfishness on Talis' part.

I don't let my Shepard turn over the evidence for the reason I don't want the quarians to throw themselves at the geth. I want them to help with the Reaper's, not tear themselves apart. That's what Tali wants as well.

[Quole]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jacobOriley wrote...

Tali is willing to be exiled to prevent the her father's good deeds for the Fleet  from being from being tarnished by his one foolish and costly mistake...

What about justice for the dozens of people who perished due to Rael's stupid mistake? Rael's reputation should suffer for what he did.

I disagree. He is dead. Therefore the only person being punished is Tali.

[jacobOriley]

Saphra Deden wrote...

What about justice for the dozens of people who perished due to Rael's stupid mistake? Rael's reputation should suffer for what he did.

What good does vengence do when the man was already killed for his mistake. Isn't this the same logic the galaxy uses against the descendants of the quarians who created the geth. I agree that Tali shouldn't have to pay for her father's deeds and Rael already paid in full for his own.

Modifié par jacobOriley, 31 mars 2011 - 02:48 .

[Volus Warlord]

Quarians are actually gigantic amoebas that rely on their suits for structure.

[Quole]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Quole wrote...

I disagree. He is dead. Therefore the only person being punished is Tali.

I did not say anything about punishing anybody. However the relatives of the people who died deserve to know the truth. They deserve to know who was responsible. The quarians as a whole deserve to know the truth about one of their heroes.

As Shepard said, there is too much at stake to cover up evidene for sentimental reasons. The quarians are facing some huge decisions and they need all the facts.

That Tali can't recognize this speaks volumes about her lack of maturity. She is a young adult after all.

no good could possibly come out of showing the evidence. All it would do is make Tali depressed (punished), and encourage the quarians to go to war. Tali taking the blame for the greater good of her people makes sense. Unlike punishing someone who is already dead and therefore cant be punished so you are just punishing Tali in the end anyway.

It will make no difference if the relatives of the dead believe Tali or her father was responsible. The point is they believe they know who is responsible. Who is ACTUALLY responsible is irrelevent.

Modifié par Quole, 31 mars 2011 - 03:07 .

[Quole]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Quole wrote...

no good could possibly come out of showing the evidence.

Without meta-gaming, how do you know that?

Use common sense. What good could possibly come out of that? Besides it was established at the begining of the mission that the Quarians were considering war, so giving them the evidence would only encourage them.

[Quole]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Quole wrote...

Use common sense. What good could possibly come out of that?

Saying "use common sense" is not a good enough answer. Why are you so confident? I think you're just meta-gaming and then retroactively trying to defend your decision not to ****** off your waifu.

The possibly good outcome is justice for the victims and the Admiralty Board and Conclave will be able to vote with all fo the facts made available to them. They'll have a better understanding of the stakes, of the risks, and the possibilities.

Justice is completely irrelevent. The point is the relatives of the dead believe Tali is responsible and thats all they need to know. Wether they think she was responsible or her father would make no difference. The point is Tali would be exiled and that would be their `justice.`

Also, going into that part of the mission where you have to chose to give the evidence or not, my first time, I knew giving the evidence would make Tali depressed/unfocused on the mission, and I knew it would likely encourage the quarians to go to war. So not giving them the evidence would give some sense of grief for the relatives of the dead, discourage the quarians from going to war and make Tali happy. I knew all that before I made the choice, so how is that meta-gaming?

Modifié par Quole, 31 mars 2011 - 03:57 .