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[Link112]

OT: A good question I would think is if it weren't for the morining war and the resulting destruction of the Quarians, would they have been a Council race by the time Humanity became a space faring race?

You know, I've thought about what life for Quarians might be like if it weren't for the Morning War, but never thought about them as a possible Council Member race.  It's entirely possible.  Say that the Quarians never lost control of the Geth, and that the Geth never started asking about souls or becoming self-aware.  They could probably offer the Council the largest, and probably easily replaceable, army in the Galaxy.  That would probably have been their contribution.

[Link112]

Stupid double post

Modifié par Link112, 28 avril 2011 - 12:32 .

[Nashiktal]

Well we don't know if the Geth would have ever been used as an army. They were already pushing the limits of AI laws when they were using them as labor.

However giving the galaxy a cheap, and efficient labor force might have gotten them on the council, IF they could get past the AI thing.

[Link112]

That and the Geth didn't start out  as any sort of AI. It was only when there were enough of them communicating with one another that they gained "sentience."

Lets take it a step further and assume that the Quarians became aware of this before it got to the problem point of sentience.  They send enough Geth off to war to keep their numbers, and "hive mind," in check so they wouldn't have to run the risk of having too many at one time to really worry about.

Modifié par Link112, 28 avril 2011 - 12:34 .

[Nashiktal]

Link112 wrote...

That and the Geth didn't start out  as any sort of AI. It was only when there were enough of them communicating with one another that they gained "sentience."

I have to disagree there. Just having better processing power doesn't mean you suddenly gain sentience. They were AI's, just relient on numbers to get "smart." Tali herself says her people were very careful in monitering them so that they didn't gain sentience.

You don't do that if they didn't have the capability, which only AI's do.

[Link112]

Perhaps. But it brings me to the second part of my post, that of culling their numbers to avoid enough networking to become sentient. All supposition, of course.

My "what if" scenario is supposition, not the point you raised about their AI-ness.

Modifié par Link112, 28 avril 2011 - 12:45 .

[Spartas Husky]

Nashiktal wrote...

Link112 wrote...

That and the Geth didn't start out  as any sort of AI. It was only when there were enough of them communicating with one another that they gained "sentience."

I have to disagree there. Just having better processing power doesn't mean you suddenly gain sentience.

Actually yes it does. Legion and Tali mention as such. Neither were aware of it and the sharing of resources was not intended to achieve sentience, but it was the better processing power by the reallocation of resource in a less wasteful manner that allowed more space to process more data. This eventually led to the Geth awakening. So yes, they achieved better processing power by sharing computer power. Legion explains this.

[jacobOriley]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Actually yes it does. Legion and Tali mention as such. Neither were aware of it and the sharing of resources was not intended to achieve sentience, but it was the better processing power by the reallocation of resource in a less wasteful manner that allowed more space to process more data. This eventually led to the Geth awakening. So yes, they achieved better processing power by sharing computer power. Legion explains this.

The codex backs this up as well. ^^^

As to the original question about the quarian's becoming a council race if it wasn't for the morning war?, I would say probably not. Those in power usually don't want to share it and before the war, the quarian's were a long ways out in the Persius Vale. I would even wonder if they would want to be a council race with the political responsibility/power to make decisions affecting the galaxy. I'm sure there are those who would say " who wouldn't want that."

edit: if Pacifien was still around she might be warning us about straying to far off Tali.... (That would include me)

Modifié par jacobOriley, 28 avril 2011 - 01:10 .

[DrRedrum]

Well that brings up Suppose #2. IF Council status was achieved in a non-morning war universe, where would that put our favorite quarian? Since the admiral hierarchy wouldn't be in place because the flotilla doesn't exist, it would be very likely Tali would be a non-character, just another better than usual engineer in the one of many Quarian ships.
Thoughts?

[jacobOriley]

DrRedrum wrote...

Well that brings up Suppose #2. IF Council status was achieved in a non-morning war universe, where would that put our favorite quarian? Since the admiral hierarchy wouldn't be in place because the flotilla doesn't exist, it would be very likely Tali would be a non-character, just another better than usual engineer in the one of many Quarian ships.
Thoughts?

Pure speculation? They would still have need for a military fleet, meaning Admirals would have a voice, but less decision making ability unless it was a military emergency. So Tali could still be the daughter of an Admiral, on pilgrimage to learn "there's no place like home" (not because the fleet needed something), still hack a geth and get info on Saren, still get in trouble with fist and...............you did mean pure speculation, right? 

[DrRedrum]

Yep lol. The pilgrimage wouldn't be in there though, I may be wrong but I believed that it was only enacted after the war to gain new resources and such.

[jacobOriley]

It would be there just to remind them the grass isn't always greener on the other side and to give mom and dad some quiet time !

[DrRedrum]

Calinstel wrote...

DrRedrum wrote...

Yep lol. The pilgrimage wouldn't be in there though, I may be wrong but I believed that it was only enacted after the war to gain new resources and such.

Pilgrimage is the quarian equivelant of Rumspringa.  Or at least a basis of it
Hey, it's a thought.

If its anything like that, then the quarians would be considered party animals. 

[jacobOriley]

I'll be damned. I've got Amish living within 2 miles of us and I've never heard that word. But that idea works for the speculating we're doing.

[Skid606]

I'm not sure, from what Tali and the codex say the Pilgrimage as we know it exists for the sole purpose of bringing resources to the fleet and ensuring genetic diversity. Based off her reaction to the Citadel in ME1 (though it's wholly possible that was just a particularly good case of 'culture shock' for lack of a better word), she would probably be of the wandering type. The collectivist culture seemed to have developed because of the flotilla, not a natural cause, so there wouldn't be as much draw for her to stay home. In fact it makes sense, she'd be 22, culturally almost an adult. Call it "studying abroad" and she instantly becomes a typical college junior.

[jacobOriley]

Skid606 wrote...

I'm not sure, from what Tali and the codex say the Pilgrimage as we know it exists for the sole purpose of bringing resources to the fleet and ensuring genetic diversity. Based off her reaction to the Citadel in ME1 (though it's wholly possible that was just a particularly good case of 'culture shock' for lack of a better word), she would probably be of the wandering type. The collectivist culture seemed to have developed because of the flotilla, not a natural cause, so there wouldn't be as much draw for her to stay home. In fact it makes sense, she'd be 22, culturally almost an adult. Call it "studying abroad" and she instantly becomes a typical college junior.

We're just 'spit-balling"

There's a poll here that need's Tali support.


Poll

[Spartas Husky]

Unfortunately all the speculations and guesses about "what If" the morning war never occured are misplaced.

1st We are basing our entire opinions upon the quarians current culture. Which was mostly, if not completely; reorganized because of the failure they had in the morning war. Their close family ties. Your business is everyone else's business. The fear of AI's, Eden Prime... I mean the list goes on.

2nd. The quarians for what we know are not very politically driven ... or power hungry. They are knowledge hungry... I guess the crazy scientist gene runs strong in em lol.

Basically what we perceive today as "quarian culture" is nothing more than the result of them loosing their homeworld. Nothing has been explained or mentioned thus far as to how their society worked before the Geth Uprising. On top of which a cheap labor force would have had major socio politcal ramifications that would also have had a huge change in a civilization.

A- Their culture before the geth became mass produced
B- Their culture after the Geth took the place of unskilled workers
C- After the Geth rebelled, and thus the close nit relationships that ensued due to the close space in the fleet.

We only have C. hard to make a puzzle when your only allowed to see 1 /3 of the original picture.

[DrRedrum]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Unfortunately all the speculations and guesses about "what If" the morning war never occured are misplaced.

1st We are basing our entire opinions upon the quarians current culture. Which was mostly, if not completely; reorganized because of the failure they had in the morning war. Their close family ties. Your business is everyone else's business. The fear of AI's, Eden Prime... I mean the list goes on.

2nd. The quarians for what we know are not very politically driven ... or power hungry. They are knowledge hungry... I guess the crazy scientist gene runs strong in em lol.

Basically what we perceive today as "quarian culture" is nothing more than the result of them loosing their homeworld. Nothing has been explained or mentioned thus far as to how their society worked before the Geth Uprising. On top of which a cheap labor force would have had major socio politcal ramifications that would also have had a huge change in a civilization.

A- Their culture before the geth became mass produced
B- Their culture after the Geth took the place of unskilled workers
C- After the Geth rebelled, and thus the close nit relationships that ensued due to the close space in the fleet.

We only have C. hard to make a puzzle when your only allowed to see 1 /3 of the original picture.

Very good point. We have to just wonder.....

[Faust1991]

Hey guys back from work, (not that you noticed me gone :'() ahahaah anyways, the one thing i noticed long before i even played the game was the look of the quarians. First i thought they were robots, second? They looked like the most advanced race out of the bunch (at least aesthetically), but to the question i had. How are human quarian relations? I'd imagine if they help us out on earth in ME3 the Alliance *cough* Anderson! Would be able to vouch bringing em into the council.

[Nashiktal]

Well Humanity has no official relations with the Quarians. As a race, humanity has no good or ill will toward them, as the Migrant Fleet has not been in any Alliance held systems.

[Faust1991]

well thats better than being bad lol. Im sure we're not as stuck up as the other races cept for against the Turians. Damn Elite wanna be's

[DrRedrum]

Faust1991 wrote...

well thats better than being bad lol. Im sure we're not as stuck up as the other races cept for against the Turians. Damn Elite wanna be's

....That is a fight I wouldn't mind seeing at all.

Its always fun to pit similar alien races from different universes to see who would win.

Now what would be a good opponent for Quarians?