16775 réponses à ce sujet

[ElectricZ]

Spartas Husky wrote...

We'll agree to disagree. If they were so "malnurished"  or "poorly" equipped there would be no wide spread fear of their military.

Example. venezuelan has the largest Air force in South America... but most have been grounded for over a dozen years because of poor maintaneance.

Cmmon knowledge spreads quite easily, and neither the quarians nor the galaxy at large would feel the quarian fleet be a threat if in fact it wasn't.

I don't recall anybody fearing the quarian military. They have a reputation for being good at what they do, protecting the fleet, but not for taking offensive action. A ship that approaches the fleet without the proper code phrase is toast, that everyone knows. Being afraid of a quarian invasion of your world, not so likely. They have a strong defense, but zero capability for force projection.

The "fear" generated by the quarian fleet is that 50,000 ships will show up in your system and tie up the relay for a week as they all pass. Traffic patterns go out the window. Shipping lanes are disrupted. The local economy goes on hold for a week. And if you're REALLY lucky, the quarians will dump their criminals in your system as exiles because they don't have the space or resources to keep prisoners.

On top of that, there's the perception that quarians will strip mine your planets, dump a bunch of garbage in their wake, and steal anything that's not nailed down.

I get the impression some factions would be happy with taking out the Migrant Fleet to get rid of the problem, but don't do so because it would be politically damaging as your rivals would scream "GENOCIDE!"... even though secretly the other factions are all thinking the same thing.

Sadly, the quarians are the galaxy's equivalent to a third-world country that only gets noticed by the first-world whenever they get in the way.

Edit: T is for Top, T is for Tali.

Modifié par ElectricZ, 28 avril 2011 - 08:24 .

[henno13]

Spartas Husky wrote...

We'll agree to disagree. If they were so "malnurished"  or "poorly" equipped there would be no wide spread fear of their military.

Example. venezuelan has the largest Air force in South America... but most have been grounded for over a dozen years because of poor maintaneance.

Cmmon knowledge spreads quite easily, and neither the quarians nor the galaxy at large would feel the quarian fleet be a threat if in fact it wasn't.

There is no fear of their military. Don't let the fact that they have 50,000 ships fool you. You've simply blown Quarian militray strength way out of proportion.

[Weiser_Cain]

Yeah, I thought it was clear that the two top dogs before the humans (and I think we're still second rate) showed up were the Krogan and then the Turians.

[Someone With Mass]

Most of the quarians' ships aren't even made for combat. Like the Liveships that carries their food and other supplies that are distributed throughout the fleet. It'd be a fatal blow to the fleet if one of those ships is destroyed.

[Nashiktal]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

But these "pest" happen to be pest that can outdo anyone else in the galaxy in terms of military strength, engineering, mining or programming. 

I laughed really hard at first, but then I stopped.

You don't really believe this, do you?

....what part of it is not true?. Not saying the quarians are pest myself just saying what the overall galatic opinion of them is.

Again what part of it is not true?
-Overall idea that they are pest by the galactic community?. Not syaing is my opinion of course.
-They are always better miners?
-Theya re better programmers?
-They have the largest fleet in the galaxy?

Mining and programming won't do them any good in a war, they're super-vulnerable to physical damage and all of their ships are aged hand-me-downs inferior to everything else in the galaxy. On the flip side, the geth have the AI capability to use programming in ship vs ship combat, their weapons are better, their tecnology is better and units are disposable because they can be rebuilt in a couple of days or weeks. I know what I would choose to fight the reapers.

You have the right to admire or like the quarians, but don't make them out to be some kind of mary-sue Master Race species that can curbstomp everyone else when they're clearly the worst equipped species in the entire galaxy for warfare. If they try to fight the geth, they will become extinct. I'm calling it right here in this thread.

if they were all handy me downs as you make em to be they wouldn't be thought of as they are. If they were handyme downs in numbers people wouldn'r bribe them to stay out of the system. Any 2nd rate garrison fleet coudl take care of the "handyme" downs.

They are a military society in all but in name. All military equipment will stay in top shape. The ones that will suffer are food production 2nd and living quarters last.

We'll agree to disagree. If they were so "malnurished"  or "poorly" equipped there would be no wide spread fear of their military.

Example. venezuelan has the largest Air force in South America... but most have been grounded for over a dozen years because of poor maintaneance.

Cmmon knowledge spreads quite easily, and neither the quarians nor the galaxy at large would feel the quarian fleet be a threat if in fact it wasn't.

The reason they are bribed out of the system is because they don't want to start a direct conflict. Just because you CAN fight the fleet out of your system doesn't mean you want to. Why fight the Quarians causing all sorts of non-combat related problems when a quick money donation does the same thing with less negative PR?

The system donating to the Quarians get to look good for helping a down-in-their-luck race, while the Quarians get some free resources without having to risk conflict with the various corporations and species that might be in the system.


I have no idea where you are getting the military thing. The Quarians are a *police* state, not military. Their military was all but decimated during the morning war, and as such the police had to step up to take their place. As mentioned in game the Quarians "military" is mostly small escort ships that rely on passwords and codes to sort enemies and allies before they get a chance to do any harm.

All other ships, as mentioned in game, are hand-me-downs, ships slated for scrap, and three centuries old ships from way back when. They do not keep up to date with moder tech, at least not often, as evidenced by Tali when she spoke of the exiled Quarian who tried to get their fleet defences updated.

Aside from not being able to dock anywhere for retrofit, where would they get modern tech? Modern tech is designed by a nation in house, who then chooses to share it with other races so they can make it. The Quarian fleet does not have such luxury.

Not to mention, as others have said, the vast majority of those ships have actually civilian populations in them. why would they risk their tiny, barely sustainable population in any conflict outside of regaining their homeworld?

[Spartas Husky]

A police state is different than a military autocracy how exactly?. Some small details might vary but... aren't they still under military jurisdiction?

If they weren't a force to be reckon with.. I doubt there is any reason whatsoever to have "one step away from broken" military ships be a priority in the case of a reaper invasion?

If they were in such a bad shape, not saying they have resources en mass, doubt the idea of taking back Rannoc would be even plausible.

If they were in such bad shape, the Geth would have delt with their nuissance years ago. They dont seek open conflict because they aren't interested in it... but even if your not interested in it a fly that bites you enough times gets annoying. There has to be something else that stops the True geth which are...95% bigger than the heretics from simply squashing the quarians... if they were in such poor condition.

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 28 avril 2011 - 09:59 .

[AnimaTempli101]

A police state is when a dictator (who probably came to power democratically but then ASSUMED DIRECT CONTROL) uses the police to control his/her own people. A military autocracy is when the military takes over and the highest CO takes command.

[ElectricZ]

Spartas Husky wrote...

If they were in such bad shape, the Geth would have delt with their nuissance years ago. They dont seek open conflict because they aren't interested in it... but even if your not interested in it a fly that bites you enough times gets annoying. There has to be something else that stops the True geth which are...95% bigger than the heretics from simply squashing the quarians... if they were in such poor condition.

You answered your own question. The true geth don't want conflict -- if Legion is to be believed, they are actually open to reconciliation. The quarians, and all other organics for that matter, have only encountered the heretics and not the true geth.

It would be helpful to this discussion if you could point to some sources in game or in the codex that point to the quarians being strong militarily... Because all evidence so far really points the other way.

According to the Mass Effect Wiki: "Outside the internal politics of the Migrant Fleet, the quarian navy is small, but highly aggressive due to the need to protect ships that effectively safeguard the future of their entire race. If the motives ofapproaching ships cannot be established, they will shoot to kill."

Modifié par ElectricZ, 28 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[Spartas Husky]

according to wiki?.... really?

"small"? ANd you really believe a "small" fleet is worth having such a big fuss over when the reapers come?.

if So... then lets agree to disagree.

[AnimaTempli101]

Quick question: Was I right at all with my definitions of Police States and Military Autocracies back there?

[Nashiktal]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Quick question: Was I right at all with my definitions of Police States and Military Autocracies back there?

I wasn't really using the term police state properly. I was trying to find the right term for when the police basically takes over for the military, which they did in the case of the Quarians. 

[Spartas Husky]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Quick question: Was I right at all with my definitions of Police States and Military Autocracies back there?

They are overall the same thing really. Dont put too much into it.

Police
States start with martial law. Military Autocracies start with martial
law... because of "emergencies" whether fabricated or authentic.

Police
states ONLY ONLY vary in that 1 dude ends up with power, Military
autocracies is a council of sorts... but usually one guy has more
influence.

To be honest.. there is no difference.  Military is always in power in that regard.

Arcian wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

according to wiki?.... really?

"small"? ANd you really believe a "small" fleet is worth having such a big fuss over when the reapers come?.

if So... then lets agree to disagree.

Small quarian NAVY.

The fleet is f***ing huge, but the actual amount of ships fitted with weapons and combat systems (i.e the quarian Navy) is very small in comparison. Remember that the biggest majority of ships in the Migrant Fleet are civilian vessels with no armament.

The "fleet" is only a term used for the entire congregation of ships. Any large group of "ships" can be called a "fleet" doesn't mean the quarians have 1 fleet. They have a large amount of fleets congregated into one massive fleet.

ANother... thing that bugged me... where is it stated that the "biggest majority of ships" are civilian vessels?.

In whicever way you wish to view it, or how many hairs you want to split.

Everyone has seen the quarian NAVY and by that I mean all military powers know the size, they have spies, if they spie on the geth they can easily spie on the quarians. Should they be so insignificant that the ... "biggest majority" which would mean more than 60% to be "biggest" it would mean their fleet  somewhere in the 20,000 military vessels. A single Geth Fleet ranges from 5,000 to 10,000 ships.

By deductive reasoning I would assume of anyonein the galaxy the quarians would know the most accurate estimate on Geth Strength since they been planning a war with them for more than three centuries.  So having around 20,000 vessels wold not even be close to reclaim their homeworld.

it just doesn't add up.

Whicever the case might be there is simple piece that is very ... controversial. Based on what you say the quarians are holding barely by a thread in terms of military capacity to wage war. if so... why would anyone try to bribe them. Like I say, you disregard a fly... but if the fly bugs you enough times you squash it.

if they were so insignificant there would be no reason for their  help to be needed in the upcoming war. If indeed they have the largest moving trash dump in the galaxy then they wouldn't be important for when the reapers come.

Again we wont agree most likely. But based on the game... why are they needed for when the reapers come if their fleet is in such a fleamsy state of disrepeir?

[ElectricZ]

Spartas Husky wrote...

according to wiki?.... really?

"small"? ANd you really believe a "small" fleet is worth having such a big fuss over when the reapers come?.

if So... then lets agree to disagree.

It's a cite, which is more than you seem to want to provide.

I'll meet you halfway and agree that there's no further point in discussing this...

Modifié par ElectricZ, 29 avril 2011 - 12:08 .

[Spartas Husky]

So your assumption is that I am wrong because your providing a site that can be modified by anyone able enough to type?. My provisions come from the game itself.

[Homebound]

i like how tali is all shy n stuff for the romance but at the end her inner freak pins shepard on the bed.

[Faust1991]

Hellbound555 wrote...

i like how tali is all shy n stuff for the romance but at the end her inner freak pins shepard on the bed.

Dude all shy girls are secretly freaks in the sack

[jacobOriley]

Faust1991 wrote...
Dude all shy girls are secretly freaks in the sack

Excuse me?.....

[Faust1991]

Hey the proof is in the putting, just saying <__<

[ElectricZ]

Spartas Husky wrote...

So your assumption is that I am wrong because your providing a site that can be modified by anyone able enough to type?. My provisions come from the game itself.

No, my assumptions that you are wrong come from the game itself, where you also claim your provisions come from. I don't recall a single conversation with any character, anywhere, that describes quarians dealing from a position of power, even amongst the Admiralty Board.

The game does, however, provide three examples of quarians being dumped on by other species: the pickpocket suspect on the Citadel, the quarian slave on Illium, and the shopkeeper on Omega. They are helpless without any kind of legal recourse and are beneath second class citizen status.

Then there's the case of the planet Ekuna:
"The quarians, seeking a homeworld of their own, petitioned the Citadel Council for the right to take over Ekuna, but they had already settled a few hundred thousand quarians on the planet before approaching the Council. Seeing this occupation as an illegal act, the Council turned a deaf ear to quarian pleas and gave the world the elcor, who could withstand the high gravity of the world far better. The quarians squatting on the planet were given one galactic standard month to leave, at which point their colonies would be bombarded. The junk left behind by the fleeing quarians clogs up portions of the landscape to this day."

Doesn't sound like they've got much of a military force to protect their colony to me.

Then there's the Admiralty Board themselves... One wants to fight, one wants to negotiate for peace, one abstains... and one wants to re-dominate the geth to return the quarians to their '"rightful place" in the galaxy. Seems that last one knows exactly what position her people are in.

Talk to Kal'Reegar... He'll go take the homeworld if ordered, but he knows its a suicide mission and they'll lose. And he's the most badass quarian we've seen.

Most damning is if you betray Tali and give up her father to the Admiralty Board. Tali tells you the fleet is breaking up, some going to find a new colony, somewhere, and the others preparing for attack. A civilization with a strong, centralized military could prevent that from happening. Instead, it's chaos.

The quarians don't have their act together in any meaningful way other than basic survival.

That's all just off the top of my head. I will agree to disagree with you if you can provide a single citation of quarians having any military power or political influence outside of their fleet. Otherwise, the prosecution rests.

Modifié par ElectricZ, 29 avril 2011 - 12:58 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

They use to have a embassy until they had the morning war then they lost it but no record shows exactly how influential they were then. I think the flotilla now as it stands vs the geth is like Battlestar vs the Cylons they did enough defense to get allow the civilian ships to jump then they fled too for 95% of the series. Very few strike backs or direct assaults occurred and those that were attempted were blackops. The Quarian fleet has no chance of defeating an unknown geth army and living.

[Andaius20]

jacobOriley wrote...

Faust1991 wrote...
Dude all shy girls are secretly freaks in the sack

Excuse me?.....

[Spartas Husky]

^^^^^ lol

[Andaius20]

Depends, I'd pick quarians over geth if one had to die. However if it just have the quarians help you or the Geth at the end game, then it would depend on what they each can bring to the table.