16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...
If a man murders 100 people and is never caught is he free of punishment after a certain time-limit too?

Well, the investigating case can be closed if nothing turns up.

[darknoon5]

GodWood wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...
Sure, they wiped out billions of Quarians, and yes, it wasn't right, but that was a long time ago.

That's hardly a valid justification.
If a man murders 100 people and is never caught is he free of punishment after a certain time-limit too?

Poor example. You can't compact a species into one individual. Wiping out or enslaving a species isn't the same as holding them accountable, as I also said. You can't really represent the aspect of the geth nearly being wiped out in your scenario, can you?

In the same way I don't hold Tali responsible for what her ancestors did, I don't hold every Geth responsible for the actions of few.

Tali isn't her ancestors.
Today's geth are the same geth.

So there's not a single new program?

The geth have also advanced since then. Legion reveals the geth seem to feel some sort of regret over the morning war and their actions there.

Does feeling guilt for killing billions suddenly free them of punishment?

They didn't really have the capacity to feel guilt before. And they are trying to making it up. They've cleaned up the Quarian home world, for example. The fact the Quarian species wants to wipe them out or enslave them makes it difficult, though.

Modifié par darknoon5, 29 avril 2011 - 02:25 .

[Someone With Mass]

Rannoch must be heaven for quarians with all that junk. Think of all the stuff they can do.

[MadMapper]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Rannoch must be heaven for quarians with all that junk. Think of all the stuff they can do.

Think of all the stuff they could do if they had Cerberus resources °_°

BTW I'd much rather prefer a Geth / Quarian supernice alliance, something like "Ok we made peace, now let's drop the civilians on Rannoch, load the Fleet with billions of Geth and go fighting Reapers" 

[GodWood]

darknoon5 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
That's hardly a valid justification.
If a man murders 100 people and is never caught is he free of punishment after a certain time-limit too?

Poor example. You can't compact a species into one individual.

I don't see how this suddenly invalidates the analogy.
One person, a bunch of people, they're still guilty.
These geth that exist today comitted the crime and I believe they should be punished.
The excuse you gave was "it was a long time ago"

Wiping out or enslaving a species isn't the same as holding them accountable

Capital Punishment bro.
And if we were to go the 'enslavement' route it wouldn't be true enslavement, they'd be downgraded back to regular A.I and thus no more a slave than a calculator.

as I also said. You can't really represent the aspect of the geth nearly being wiped out in your scenario, can you?

Yes, they were nearly wiped out -- but not by all the quarians.
What they did was defend against their attackers than proceed to systematically kill every other quarian who wasn't involved in the war.

darknoon5 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Tali isn't her ancestors.
Today's geth are the same geth.

So there's not a single new program?

The geth are not like us.
A new program is not equivalent to a new life.

darknoon5 wrote

GodWood wrote...
Does feeling guilt for killing billions suddenly free them of punishment?

They didn't really have the capacity to feel guilt before. And they are trying to making it up. They've cleaned up the Quarian home world, for example. The fact the Quarian species wants to wipe them out or enslave them makes it difficult, though.

"Sorry about butchering all those billions of innocent man, women and children, pretty much wiping out your entire species and than leaving you flying around as hated space gypsies for 300 years...


But I cleaned your home!"

Yeah that doesn't cut it.


EDIT: and now I'm going to bed

Modifié par GodWood, 29 avril 2011 - 02:49 .

[darknoon5]

GodWood wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
That's hardly a valid justification.
If a man murders 100 people and is never caught is he free of punishment after a certain time-limit too?

Poor example. You can't compact a species into one individual.

I don't see how this suddenly invalidates the analogy.
One person, a bunch of people, they're still guilty.
These geth that exist today comitted the crime and I believe they should be punished.
The excuse you gave was "it was a long time ago"

Yes, but my point was the geth have advanced and now feel guilt. Also, the analogy doesn't and can't really include the attempted murder of the man.

Wiping out or enslaving a species isn't the same as holding them accountable

Capital Punishment bro.
And if we were to go the 'enslavement' route it wouldn't be true enslavement, they'd be downgraded back to regular A.I and thus no more a slave than a calculator.

I generally disagree with Capital punishment.
Imo, wiping out their sentience would make the crime even worse. Who decides who gets sentience or not? You? Me? A species that has already shown to prefer genocide instead of discussion?

as I also said. You can't really represent the aspect of the geth nearly being wiped out in your scenario, can you?

Yes, they were nearly wiped out -- but not by all the quarians.
What they did was defend against their attackers than proceed to systematically kill every other quarian who wasn't involved in the war.

Which I have said was wrong. But the geth only had limited sentience. They were self-aware, but struggled with morals.

darknoon5 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Tali isn't her ancestors.
Today's geth are the same geth.

So there's not a single new program?

The geth are not like us.
A new program is not equivalent to a new life.

No, but several are.

darknoon5 wrote

GodWood wrote...
Does feeling guilt for killing billions suddenly free them of punishment?

They didn't really have the capacity to feel guilt before. And they are trying to making it up. They've cleaned up the Quarian home world, for example. The fact the Quarian species wants to wipe them out or enslave them makes it difficult, though.

"Sorry about butchering all those billions of innocent man, women and children, pretty much wiping out your entire species and than leaving you flying around as hated space gypsies for 300 years...


But I cleaned your home!"

Yeah that doesn't cut it.

As I said, what else can they do? They can't negotiate with a species that wants to wipe them out. What do you suggest they do?

[Spartas Husky]

It's Called war. Preemptive or defensive. Its all the same. Doubt United States would be hold responsible for the millions of frenchies and germies it bombed to kingdom come in WW2.

[AnimaTempli101]

If I completely brainwashed a tribe of people to do as I told them and nothing else, then had them commit crimes would they be responsible?

Same deal with the Geth, but with logic. It made good logical sense to eliminate any possible threat to their continued existence. Therefore, being bound by logic, they did so.

[NuclearBuddha]

Arcian wrote...
I don't think this will be the case. The magazine described it as chronic junk-collecting on a global scale.

Kind of an interesting idea...  Maybe the geth are collecting the creators' junk in some kind of bizarre museum-gone-mad.

[awddc]

MadMapper wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Rannoch must be heaven for quarians with all that junk. Think of all the stuff they can do.

Think of all the stuff they could do if they had Cerberus resources °_°

BTW I'd much rather prefer a Geth / Quarian supernice alliance, something like "Ok we made peace, now let's drop the civilians on Rannoch, load the Fleet with billions of Geth and go fighting Reapers" 

+1

[Alienmorph]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Arcian wrote...
I don't think this will be the case. The magazine described it as chronic junk-collecting on a global scale.

Kind of an interesting idea...  Maybe the geth are collecting the creators' junk in some kind of bizarre museum-gone-mad.

Like the whole planet was populated by Wall-E copies? LOL

[D4rkSektor]

Keep in mind that the Quarians, along with pretty much everyone else knew nothing about true Geth vs. Heretic Geth until recently. Everyone thought that they were one in the same, when in fact there were actually two different groups. Towards the end of the story in Mass Effect 2, if you chose the special speech option, it can be seen that she's trying to co-exist with the Geth, or at least Legion. You can also see from this scene that Legion (and the true Geth, by extension) still have much to learn; he tried to take data from Tali's omni-tool without her permission, which could've ended badly, but didn't if you made the right speech option.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I would hope it wouldn't come down to a choice between geth and quarians.

If I was looking at it from a tactical perspective, then the geth know more about the reapers than any other race. They also (probably) have better weapons. And also, the geth are in a better position for war than the quarians. If the quarians went against the reapers, then it would damage their resources, ships and technology far more than the geth.

But for the story, I am sure that Tali would want the quarians to go after the reapers. So I may do a playthrough for that and try it out.

[Faust1991]

Andaius20 wrote...

jacobOriley wrote...

Faust1991 wrote...
Dude all shy girls are secretly freaks in the sack

Excuse me?.....

Like i said, the proof is in the putting, or in this case the TAKING OFF

[Niulus Kriyk]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I would hope it wouldn't come down to a choice between geth and quarians.

Yeah, I hope there is a paragon option for both having peace, but a hard to optain, maybe a 75% paragon or higher if its later in the game.

[Evil_Sarevok]

I think the paragon choice with Tali/Legion will have an effect on this, as the consequences of the previous games are designed to be more 'dire' in ME3. Or so I'm lead to believe.

[Link112]

Alienmorph wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Arcian wrote...
I don't think this will be the case. The magazine described it as chronic junk-collecting on a global scale.

Kind of an interesting idea...  Maybe the geth are collecting the creators' junk in some kind of bizarre museum-gone-mad.

Like the whole planet was populated by Wall-E copies? LOL

I just got an image of a curious, but wholly naive Geth, going through the same discovery process Wall-E did, culminating in him hanging a Quarian bra over his flashlight head.  I'm probably the only one, but the thought amuses me.

Oh, and it's the proof is in the pudding, not putting.

Modifié par Link112, 29 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[Faust1991]

Link112 wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Arcian wrote...
I don't think this will be the case. The magazine described it as chronic junk-collecting on a global scale.

Kind of an interesting idea...  Maybe the geth are collecting the creators' junk in some kind of bizarre museum-gone-mad.

Like the whole planet was populated by Wall-E copies? LOL

I just got an image of a curious, but wholly naive Geth, going through the same discovery process Wall-E did, culminating in him hanging a Quarian bra over his flashlight head.  I'm probably the only one, but the thought amuses me.

Oh, and it's the proof is in the pudding, not putting.

wow really? damn.....but i dont like pudding

[jacobOriley]

Faust1991 wrote...

wow really? damn.....but i dont like pudding

"you'll eat your pudding....and like it too!"

[Faust1991]

jacobOriley wrote...

Faust1991 wrote...

wow really? damn.....but i dont like pudding

"you'll eat your pudding....and like it too!"

Think she can make a mean sandwhich?

[jacobOriley]

Faust1991 wrote...

Think she can make a mean sandwhich?

You...um...

[Faust1991]

jacobOriley wrote...

Faust1991 wrote...

Think she can make a mean sandwhich?

You...um...

I um..whats the word boshtet? or somethin like that lol

[Link112]

Mmm...Tali sandwich. XD