16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Niulus Kriyk]

Dragon XIX wrote...


I'm on your side, I'd take the Geth over the Quarians anyday.

Even if I like Legion and the Geth I still don't get it why some people would choose a machine over an organic.

[itwilleatyou]

YungD815 wrote...

Dragon XIX wrote...


I'm on your side, I'd take the Geth over the Quarians anyday.

Even if I like Legion and the Geth I still don't get it why some people would choose a machine over an organic.

What's the difference? Besides the material that makes up their 'body'.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Like I said, tactically I can understand why people would choose the geth to go up against the reapers.

Personally, I am more inclined to take the geth just because the quarians are not in a position to go into war. It would only ruin there resources.

Although, I am sure that Tali would want the quarians to attack the reapers. So it depends on who you want to appease.

[jacobOriley]

Calinstel wrote...

There is one aspect of war that some do forget. Targeting systems can only track so many objects before they are saturated. Though I doubt that 10 thousand geth ships would do much, the 50 thousand quarian vessels should. Yes, the quarian ships are more cannon fodder than anything else.  If the fire control of the Reapers is rendered useless due to the shear number of attackers, that in itself IS a valid attack. The saturation of targets means the capitol ships of the galaxy would live longer in the battle, possibly turning defeat into a hard fought win.
The loss of lives to the quarians would be extreme but if those ships were manned by geth platforms? Even Legion was ready to destroy all the Heretics, so it is plausible the geth could perform this function without trouble. It does mean though that both the quarians and geth have come to some type of peaceful coexistance, even if just temporary, to deal with the war.

The more I think about this, the more I like it. The only part I would change would be temporary truce. The quarian's who survived; non-combatant quarian's grounded prior to conflict and the surviving quarian combatants, would need more than just a temporary truce with the geth and a guaranteed place (Ranoch if possible) to relocate and rebuild their lives after battle was over.

Throwing the crumbling Fleet at the reaper's to scramble targeting while the true geth fleet and the rest of the forces targeted Reaper's makes good use of the quarian Fleet, but wipes it out as well. This leaves the quarian's more or less grounded and vulnerable.

That would make the suviving qeth more comfortable knowing the quarian resources were to small to threaten them and it would refocus the quarian's on something other than slaughtering the geth. It would also show the galaxy races the true geth's intent is different from the heretic geth.....

Yeh...I'm just spit balling again....

[D4rkSektor]

Calinstel wrote...

There is one aspect of war that some do forget. Targeting systems can only track so many objects before they are saturated. Though I doubt that 10 thousand geth ships would do much, the 50 thousand quarian vessels should. Yes, the quarian ships are more cannon fodder than anything else.  If the fire control of the Reapers is rendered useless due to the shear number of attackers, that in itself IS a valid attack. The saturation of targets means the capitol ships of the galaxy would live longer in the battle, possibly turning defeat into a hard fought win.
The loss of lives to the quarians would be extreme but if those ships were manned by geth platforms? Even Legion was ready to destroy all the Heretics, so it is plausible the geth could perform this function without trouble. It does mean though that both the quarians and geth have come to some type of peaceful coexistance, even if just temporary, to deal with the war.

There are two problems with this: 1. It assumes that there's only one Reaper. 2. It assumes the Reaper will bother to attack something that doesn't shoot at it. Remember Mass Effect 1? Sovereign just flew right through a Turian ship, ignoring attacks.
I think it could work if a weakness was found, however. So far the only weakness that we know of is when it ASSUMES DIRECT CONTROL of one of its minions and said minion dies. That was the case of Sovereign, anyway.

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 01 mai 2011 - 05:05 .

[jacobOriley]

D4rkSektor wrote...
There are two problems with this: 1. It assumes that there's only one Reaper. 2. It assumes the Reaper will bother to attack something that doesn't shoot at it. Remember Mass Effect 1? Sovereign just flew right through a Turian ship, ignoring attacks.

1. Did I miss something? I didn't see that assumption.
2.The Fleet ships do have the capability to shoot....I wish I could find the reference I'm thinking of.

[D4rkSektor]

jacobOriley wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...
There are two problems with this: 1. It assumes that there's only one Reaper. 2. It assumes the Reaper will bother to attack something that doesn't shoot at it. Remember Mass Effect 1? Sovereign just flew right through a Turian ship, ignoring attacks.

1. Did I miss something? I didn't see that assumption.
2.The Fleet ships do have the capability to shoot....I wish I could find the reference I'm thinking of.

1. Fine, point. 2. Let me rephrase that. It assumes that the Reapers will consider the ships in the Flotilla threats.
I don't dislike the Quarians, quite the opposite, really. It's that their ships and hardware aren't exactly up-to-date and I can't see them being a big enough threat that the Reapers will bother trying to attack them.

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 01 mai 2011 - 05:15 .

[itwilleatyou]

jacobOriley wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...
There are two problems with this: 1. It assumes that there's only one Reaper. 2. It assumes the Reaper will bother to attack something that doesn't shoot at it. Remember Mass Effect 1? Sovereign just flew right through a Turian ship, ignoring attacks.

1. Did I miss something? I didn't see that assumption.
2.The Fleet ships do have the capability to shoot....I wish I could find the reference I'm thinking of.

How is this any different to just attacking the reaper with quarian and geth ships?

[jacobOriley]

itwilleatyou wrote...

How is this any different to just attacking the reaper with quarian and geth ships?

In Calinstel's proposal, geth platform's would be piloting the majority of the quarian ships to prevent the massive loss of quarian life.

[itwilleatyou]

Calinstel wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

There is one aspect of war that some do forget. Targeting systems can only track so many objects before they are saturated. Though I doubt that 10 thousand geth ships would do much, the 50 thousand quarian vessels should. Yes, the quarian ships are more cannon fodder than anything else.  If the fire control of the Reapers is rendered useless due to the shear number of attackers, that in itself IS a valid attack. The saturation of targets means the capitol ships of the galaxy would live longer in the battle, possibly turning defeat into a hard fought win.
The loss of lives to the quarians would be extreme but if those ships were manned by geth platforms? Even Legion was ready to destroy all the Heretics, so it is plausible the geth could perform this function without trouble. It does mean though that both the quarians and geth have come to some type of peaceful coexistance, even if just temporary, to deal with the war.

There are two problems with this: 1. It assumes that there's only one Reaper. 2. It assumes the Reaper will bother to attack something that doesn't shoot at it. Remember Mass Effect 1? Sovereign just flew right through a Turian ship, ignoring attacks.
I think it could work if a weakness was found, however. So far the only weakness that we know of is when it ASSUMES DIRECT CONTROL of one of its minions and said minion dies. That was the case of Sovereign, anyway.

As I said, Targeting systems!
The weapons used in ME, and in most battles, require the silly requirement to actuall HIT the target.  If your targeting computers cannot differentiate between targets due to it being saturated, it cannot fire accurately, just spit rounds out and hope to hit something.
Modern tracking systems follow a couple hundred targets at best.  Unless the Reapers took into account an ungodly number on targets, it's own tracking systems might well only track a few thousand at best.  Look at the numbers of normal sized fleets in the ME galaxy, 30? 50?  No where near enough to cause an issue.  But, a wall of 50 thousand ships would seem, at extreme ranges, to be a solid mass.  By the time the real time tracking systems, like laser ranging, can come into play, the shear mass of rounds coming at the Reapers would overwhelm shields.  Even is a thousand Reapers were advancing, the limitations of the fire control systems used in ME would make them blind to individual ships.
But, it seems as if BW is shying away from a massive space battle.  Opting to silly baby reapers and big worms.
Peace or a cease-fire is still the best outcome, being forced into one or the other is just lazy on BW's part.  There is room in the Galaxy for both the quarians and geth.

edit*  Actually, just ignore this post as it's not really on topic. IE about Tali.

Are you seriously comparing modern tracking systems to the tracking systems of a fictional race of demi-gods? Reapers have decimated numerous civilizations and I assume they had fleets themselves so I would also assume the reapers have experience dealing with large fleets.

[jacobOriley]

Calinstel wrote...
As I said, Targeting systems!
The weapons used in ME, and in most battles, require the silly requirement to actuall HIT the target.  If your targeting computers cannot differentiate between targets due to it being saturated, it cannot fire accurately, just spit rounds out and hope to hit something.
Modern tracking systems follow a couple hundred targets at best.  Unless the Reapers took into account an ungodly number on targets, it's own tracking systems might well only track a few thousand at best.  Look at the numbers of normal sized fleets in the ME galaxy, 30? 50?  No where near enough to cause an issue.  But, a wall of 50 thousand ships would seem, at extreme ranges, to be a solid mass.  By the time the real time tracking systems, like laser ranging, can come into play, the shear mass of rounds coming at the Reapers would overwhelm shields.  Even is a thousand Reapers were advancing, the limitations of the fire control systems used in ME would make them blind to individual ships.
But, it seems as if BW is shying away from a massive space battle.  Opting to silly baby reapers and big worms.
Peace or a cease-fire is still the best outcome, being forced into one or the other is just lazy on BW's part.  There is room in the Galaxy for both the quarians and geth.

edit*  Actually, just ignore this post as it's not really on topic. IE about Tali.

It is a topic for another thread, but it makes an interesting discussion.

Would Tali consider the proposal?
1. Truce with the geth to fight the Reaper's
                        and....
2.Given Rannoch back or another planet for non-combatants knowing the Fleet would be decimated and there would still be high losses of Tali's people.

[Faust1991]

Give this man the right price and he'll solve all our problems.

[Nodscouter]

Ugh, star wars...

[Faust1991]

oh cmon theres always room for boba, i just try to lighten up the mood. I was reading through the thread seemed like alot of people were getting awfully angry.

[Nodscouter]

Calm debate isn't exactly angry.

[Faust1991]

just looked that way i couldn't tell lol My bad.

[jacobOriley]

Angry debates usually lead to insults and name calling and bans. I take it English isn't your native language? so it might be hard to tell.

Any thoughts on Tali's response?

[Faust1991]

Nah its just I can't always tell with text, hard to capture emotions through them. To the topic at hand though, Im not worried about the Geth/Quarian relations. There's the possibility of the Racchni helping us in ME3 (if you do the right stuff), not to mention the hundreds of other persuasions we were able to pull off in ME2. If our decisions do carry weight (and I've seen that they do no matter how big or small), then Im 100% sure the Geth that we liberated for Legion will come to our aid. Maybe not ALL Geth, but legion's for sure. With Legion leading that particular splinter faction with him and tali holding alot of sway (correct me if im wrong) amongst her people? We shouldn't have any problem at all.

America liberated itself from the British  and look at us now, sure we fought for the longest time, but we're best of friends now. That's not to say its exactly like the Geth and Quarians because the magnitude of what happened between them is much higher, but you can see where Im trying to go with this.

Modifié par Faust1991, 01 mai 2011 - 06:47 .

[Nodscouter]

You identify yourself with people who lived nearly 250 years ago because you were born in the same area?

[Faust1991]

Nodscouter wrote...

You identify yourself with people who lived nearly 250 years ago because you were born in the same area?

No the point im trying to make here is that like geth did, we broke off and formed our own community. When our superiors heard of this naturally they attacked (like the quarians did). So like the Geth we fought for our independence and struck some pretty harsh blows to our superiors (in this case the geth took rannoch etc.).  Our war eventually ended and we were given our independence.

Now like our friendship with the British eventually formed out of the ashes of our war, Legions splinter faction has the chance to do the same with the Quarians, with some help from shephard.  Im not trying to relate with them, im just trying to say show there are some similarities between the two. Some people like to say the Geth are at fault, some people say that the British colonies could have just stayed colonies. Theres multiple ways to look at both wars, but the general principle is the same.  Independence, War, Animosity for a while, then a friendship.

When i say we i mean the American people I'm Amercan i live here in the states, if thats what you meant.

Modifié par Faust1991, 01 mai 2011 - 07:00 .

[Andaius20]

Actually Faust Legion IS the Geth, the heretic's where the splinter faction. I'd say since you can get Tali and the Geth to get along.




That there is plenty of hope for the Geth and Quarians to get along, especially if you influence them to seek peace in her trial.

Modifié par Andaius20, 01 mai 2011 - 07:03 .