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[Thundertactics]

It's true that quarians have a zero population growth rule in place. But that does mean that another couple could technically have this rule temporarily lifted and birth more children in order to compensate for the loss of Tali in this equation.

edit: Oh, right, we're still doing the whole top post gig:

By SilverOfTwoWings

Modifié par Thundertactics, 02 mai 2011 - 02:53 .

[NuclearBuddha]

One child per couple is actually negative population growth.  That said, the rule is apparently flouted, as seen with Lemm's family in Ascension.  I don't think there's any specific duty for any one quarian to have a kid.  And if they don't, some other quarian will pick up the slack, I'm sure.

[Volrath937]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

One child per couple is actually negative population growth.  That said, the rule is apparently flouted, as seen with Lemm's family in Ascension.  I don't think there's any specific duty for any one quarian to have a kid.  And if they don't, some other quarian will pick up the slack, I'm sure.

The whole breeding policy doesn't make much sense given what we're told, because they'd either need to relax the rule every single generation to compensate for losses, biological or not, which would make the rule unnecessary, or they'd be looking at a Japan situation by now. I think it's safe to say Bioware just thought it sounded cool and ran with it. 

Modifié par Volrath937, 02 mai 2011 - 03:22 .

[NuclearBuddha]

Volrath937 wrote...
The whole breeding policy doesn't make much sense given what we're told, because they'd either need to relax the rule every single generation to compensate for losses, biological or not, which would make the rule unnecessary, or they'd be looking at a Japan situation by now. I think it's safe to say Bioware just thought it sounded cool and ran with it. 

Certainly a possibility.  However in regards to the Japan anology, with future medicine it could be that older citizens are more useful than they are today.  Also, the policy could also be more like an ideal or suggestion:  anyone who really puts effort into it can get around it, but most are content to obey.

Just saying "BW's wrong" suggests we can believe whatever detail we like and disregard what we don't.  I think it's better to try to figure out just how the situation we're told exists can work.

[Volrath937]

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Certainly a possibility.  However in regards to the Japan anology, with future medicine it could be that older citizens are more useful than they are today.  Also, the policy could also be more like an ideal or suggestion:  anyone who really puts effort into it can get around it, but most are content to obey.

Just saying "BW's wrong" suggests we can believe whatever detail we like and disregard what we don't.  I think it's better to try to figure out just how the situation we're told exists can work.

Well, yeah, that goes without saying. Maybe, that's as good a guess as any, though I seem to recall Tali (I think) saying something about how they relax the rule only in times of major population dips, though I could be remembering wrong. 

I'm not saying they're wrong, as you've pointed out in the past, it's their story, so whatever they say is fact, regardless of anything else. I'm just saying we're probably overthinking something that doesn't make too much sense, but we should take it at face value anyway. 

But anyway, there's no reason to think Tali would be obligated, officially or morally, to have quarian children. 

[Andaius20]

I'd guess it more like a general rule of thumb, so you don;t usually see big Quarian families of like 3-5 kids unless you get "sanction" for said "emergency population recovery." It makes sense that they try to keep population some what in check because they have limited resources and space on board the ships. If they have to get even more ships to house even more mouths it will put a strain on there already overstress fleet resources.

[Faust1991]

*yawn* morning gents..well actually afternoon. Ill try to squeeze in some discussion before i go for my run.

Since we're on the topic of breeding n such, how exactly do the Quarians go about getting more ships? I only ask this because sooner or later the ships they have now probably get crammed to the max (As Andaius brought up). They don't have any planets that i know of (feel free to correct me if im wrong). They're looked down upon by the community so im sure trading for said ships doesn't come easy.

[Thundertactics]

Faust1991 wrote...

*yawn* morning gents..well actually afternoon. Ill try to squeeze in some discussion before i go for my run.

Since we're on the topic of breeding n such, how exactly do the Quarians go about getting more ships? I only ask this because sooner or later the ships they have now probably get crammed to the max (As Andaius brought up). They don't have any planets that i know of (feel free to correct me if im wrong). They're looked down upon by the community so im sure trading for said ships doesn't come easy.

That's actually the whole reason behind both the zero population growth rule, the pilgrimage and the quarians' penchant for tech and repair.
The zero population growth rule ensure the population won't become too big for their existing ships to handle.
The pilgrimage ensures a steady flow of new ships and materials, and ensures that some ships will have their population spread out before it becomes too big to handle. Not to mention this whole "switching ships" thing ensures proper genetic diversity.
The quarians are such tech heads in general because they need to make constant repairs to their aging ships and salvage ships that have been abandoned or cut tremendously in cost because other races simply cannot be bothered to "fix" them, seeing how they can't exactly get any truly new ones very quickly.

[Faust1991]

Thundertactics wrote...

Faust1991 wrote...

*yawn* morning gents..well actually afternoon. Ill try to squeeze in some discussion before i go for my run.

Since we're on the topic of breeding n such, how exactly do the Quarians go about getting more ships? I only ask this because sooner or later the ships they have now probably get crammed to the max (As Andaius brought up). They don't have any planets that i know of (feel free to correct me if im wrong). They're looked down upon by the community so im sure trading for said ships doesn't come easy.

That's actually the whole reason behind both the zero population growth rule, the pilgrimage and the quarians' penchant for tech and repair.
The zero population growth rule ensure the population won't become too big for their existing ships to handle.
The pilgrimage ensures a steady flow of new ships and materials, and ensures that some ships will have their population spread out before it becomes too big to handle. Not to mention this whole "switching ships" thing ensures proper genetic diversity.
The quarians are such tech heads in general because they need to make constant repairs to their aging ships and salvage ships that have been abandoned or cut tremendously in cost because other races simply cannot be bothered to "fix" them, seeing how they can't exactly get any truly new ones very quickly.

The ships probably aren't modular enough to add more compartments huh ? About the zero population growth rule though. So at a time theres always a set non fluctuating population count? I mean obviously they die and are born, but its all regulated so tightly theres always a set number?

  I was about to ask about the Quarians coming back from pilgrimage to add to the number, but then i forgot they can be gone for an indefinte amount of time till they find something useful and not all of them always come back <.<

Modifié par Faust1991, 02 mai 2011 - 06:04 .

[NuclearBuddha]

Faust1991 wrote...
The ships probably aren't modular enough to add more compartments huh ? About the zero population growth rule though. So at a time theres always a set non fluctuating population count? I mean obviously they die and are born, but its all regulated so tightly theres always a set number?

  I was about to ask about the Quarians coming back from pilgrimage to add to the number, but then i forgot they can be gone for an indefinte amount of time till they find something useful and not all of them always come back <.<

Good questions.  This is fanart, I think, but it's reasonably true to the quarian ships depicted in the artbook.



The stuff along the tail might be modular compartments, but even with add-on capability, there's going to be a limit to the operating specs of the ship in the end.  What little info we have on quarian ship interiors from Ascension suggests that they're almost hollowed out inside to provide living space.

It's not clear if the quarian government sets an actual population limit, or if the idea is just to avoid growing beyond their capability to handle.

Returning quarians have no effect on the population since they were part of the population the first place.  The lone caveat is that apparently the kids of exiles can go back to the Flotilla.

[NuclearBuddha]

michaelrsa wrote...
What's that glowing do dad at the front of the ship? Please don't tell me that's the E-zero core sitting out in the open.

The mass effect field for FTL.  Remember what the SR1 looked like in the between-star-systems loading screen in ME1?

[Collider]

I was under the impression that the quarian ships were overcrowded, and that there was no particular need for more people. In fact having more children might just strain resources more.

[Alienmorph]

Speeching of quarian's ships have you ever noticed how many of them are visible in the Grunt's recruitment mission? I know it's set on "starships' graveyard" planet but I can't imagine the quarians just lefting behing entire spaceships, except in exception circumnstances like the Geth's invasion of the Alarei.

[Nashiktal]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Faust1991 wrote...
The ships probably aren't modular enough to add more compartments huh ? About the zero population growth rule though. So at a time theres always a set non fluctuating population count? I mean obviously they die and are born, but its all regulated so tightly theres always a set number?

  I was about to ask about the Quarians coming back from pilgrimage to add to the number, but then i forgot they can be gone for an indefinte amount of time till they find something useful and not all of them always come back <.<

Good questions.  This is fanart, I think, but it's reasonably true to the quarian ships depicted in the artbook.



The stuff along the tail might be modular compartments, but even with add-on capability, there's going to be a limit to the operating specs of the ship in the end.  What little info we have on quarian ship interiors from Ascension suggests that they're almost hollowed out inside to provide living space.

It's not clear if the quarian government sets an actual population limit, or if the idea is just to avoid growing beyond their capability to handle.

Returning quarians have no effect on the population since they were part of the population the first place.  The lone caveat is that apparently the kids of exiles can go back to the Flotilla.

The problem with assuming Quarian ships are modular, is that most of their ships are not "Quarian." They buy their ships off of other species, and while we know some merchant vesseles are modular, we don't know about other class ships. We can assume (and know with Turian, and human ships) most of the decomissioned warships arnt modular, at least not to a major extent.

Since we know their fleet isn't made up of Alliance vessles, (At least not to any significant percentage) we are unsure if their fleet is modular. Maybe their life ships are? OR maybe just the *pure* Quarian vessles?

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 mai 2011 - 07:26 .

[Faust1991]

Nashiktal wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Faust1991 wrote...
The ships probably aren't modular enough to add more compartments huh ? About the zero population growth rule though. So at a time theres always a set non fluctuating population count? I mean obviously they die and are born, but its all regulated so tightly theres always a set number?

  I was about to ask about the Quarians coming back from pilgrimage to add to the number, but then i forgot they can be gone for an indefinte amount of time till they find something useful and not all of them always come back <.<

Good questions.  This is fanart, I think, but it's reasonably true to the quarian ships depicted in the artbook.



The stuff along the tail might be modular compartments, but even with add-on capability, there's going to be a limit to the operating specs of the ship in the end.  What little info we have on quarian ship interiors from Ascension suggests that they're almost hollowed out inside to provide living space.

It's not clear if the quarian government sets an actual population limit, or if the idea is just to avoid growing beyond their capability to handle.

Returning quarians have no effect on the population since they were part of the population the first place.  The lone caveat is that apparently the kids of exiles can go back to the Flotilla.

The problem with assuming Quarian ships are modular, is that most of their ships are not "Quarian." They buy their ships off of other species, and while we know some merchant vesseles are modular, we don't know about other class ships. We can assume (and know with Turian, and human ships) most of the decomissioned warships arnt modular, at least not to a major extent.

Since we know their fleet isn't made up of Alliance vessles, (At least not to any significant percentage) we are unsure if their fleet is modular. Maybe their life ships are? OR maybe just the *pure* Quarian vessles?

Well we defintely know tali isn't coming back if you know what i mean:D.

Anyways jokes aside, yeah i had assumed alot of their ships weren't of quarian design, but knowing that theres no major room for growth in that fleet further spurs an alliance between Geth and Quarian as the utmost priority (if they want to get any of their planets back).  Even the ships that might be of Quarian design probably aren't modular. Lol im sure the engineers weren't going "well theres a pretty damn good possibility we'll spend the rest of our lives in these so lets get building" before they built them.

[Andaius20]

I would imagine the vast majority are just commercial vessels, we don't really get to see many of those since Shepard is military. I would imagine that ship above would be a freighter.

[Faust1991]

Andaius20 wrote...

I would imagine the vast majority are just commercial vessels, we don't really get to see many of those since Shepard is military. I would imagine that ship above would be a freighter.

I'd laugh my ass off if there was a freighter for space ice cream amongst the vessels.  Tali Zora vas Dipin Dots

[Alienmorph]

Andaius20 wrote...

I would imagine the vast majority are just commercial vessels, we don't really get to see many of those since Shepard is military. I would imagine that ship above would be a freighter.

There's not a precise division between military and civilia spaceships in the Migrant Fleet: every vessel carries enough firepower to defend itself.

[Nashiktal]

Alienmorph wrote...

Speeching of quarian's ships have you ever noticed how many of them are visible in the Grunt's recruitment mission? I know it's set on "starships' graveyard" planet but I can't imagine the quarians just lefting behing entire spaceships, except in exception circumnstances like the Geth's invasion of the Alarei.

While they probably wouldn't just leave ships behind, some of those ships they are using have been patched and maintained for almost three centuries. You can only keep machines going for so long. At some point they will have to scuttle ships, if only so they can use the good parts for the rest of the fleet.

[Collider]

Here's a screenshot of what looks like a quarian ship, in Grunt's recruit mission. The planet is Korlus.

[NuclearBuddha]

Nashiktal wrote...
The problem with assuming Quarian ships are modular, is that most of their ships are not "Quarian." They buy their ships off of other species, and while we know some merchant vesseles are modular, we don't know about other class ships. We can assume (and know with Turian, and human ships) most of the decomissioned warships arnt modular, at least not to a major extent.

Since we know their fleet isn't made up of Alliance vessles, (At least not to any significant percentage) we are unsure if their fleet is modular. Maybe their life ships are? OR maybe just the *pure* Quarian vessles?

The round-front ship design is visible with their liveships and ships like the Alarei, and is mentioned in the artbook.  It seems a reasonable assumption that these designs are actually quarian rather than scavenged. 

But yeah, probably a big percentage of the fleet began service under some other species.

[Faust1991]

Collider wrote...

Here's a screenshot of what looks like a quarian ship, in Grunt's recruit mission. The planet is Korlus.

Im not surprised they'd be there given all the salvage, but wow thats what that was? I always remembered looking up and being like "wth is that massive beast?"

[jacobOriley]

Nashiktal wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...

Speeching of quarian's ships have you ever noticed how many of them are visible in the Grunt's recruitment mission? I know it's set on "starships' graveyard" planet but I can't imagine the quarians just lefting behing entire spaceships, except in exception circumnstances like the Geth's invasion of the Alarei.

While they probably wouldn't just leave ships behind, some of those ships they are using have been patched and maintained for almost three centuries. You can only keep machines going for so long. At some point they will have to scuttle ships, if only so they can use the good parts for the rest of the fleet.

In the book Ascension, this becomes enough of an issue to cause many captains to come together and request the conclave consider immediate long range exploration to find a planet, resources and even a disabled reaper. They know the Fleet is dying and is living on borrowed time. I think Tali makes some reference to this in ME1 in one of the conversation wheels (not the book but the living on borrowed time)