16775 réponses à ce sujet

[Volrath937]

Orange Face wrote...
She would make a great Admiral becasue she has the respect of her people and a perspective that most of them lack (ie the Reapers, the Geth if you played it that way) she's not a combat leader which is fine but she has the best interests of her people in mind.... As for her relationship with Kal it seems as though this relationship is already brewing and if the two continue to climb the social ladder like they are they will be rubbing elbows alot more.  Consider an Admiral forming a lasting relationship with the Military leadership of the Quarians, that would be a powerhouse couple that could politically unite the Qurians.  Furthermore I fear that a relationship with good old Shep would pull Tali away from her people, limiting her effectivness with her own people.  Look at what happens with Wrex, he seperates himself from Shep and begins to unify his people.  Paragon Shep plays a huge part in the lives of the people he/she meets, and they end up becoming the Shep for their people. 

But an admiral is a military leader, and with the upcoming Reaper war, she would need to be a combat leader, which you have said she is not.
What specifically do you think indicates a relationship with her and Kal? I personally don't see it at all, so I'd like your perspective. 
Also, Kal is not a high up in the military. He says it himself, the guys a foot soldier, he goes where he's told and shoots what he's told to. Unless quarians promote squad leaders for wiping out their squads, he isn't rising to high command anytime soon. I think people get the impression that he's important, because every other male quarian we meet is, and he has a distinctive suit/voice.
Tali has placed her utmost trust into Shepard if you romanced her, but it is possible she would leave if the Fleet recalled her. She is becoming less selfless just by being with Shepard though, so who knows.

[Collider]

I pretty much think that the games have foreshadowed her becoming an admiral. The gun is on the wall, so to speak.



That fact, I wouldn't consider her a particularly good candidate for admiralship. She has not commanded any ships, and has demonstrated that she is not a particularly good leader. Certainly, if she's exonerated she has the image to galvanize the Quarians, but being a good admiral rather than a figurehead is a different story.

[Volrath937]

Collider wrote...

I pretty much think that the games have foreshadowed her becoming an admiral. The gun is on the wall, so to speak.

That fact, I wouldn't consider her a particularly good candidate for admiralship. She has not commanded any ships, and has demonstrated that she is not a particularly good leader. Certainly, if she's exonerated she has the image to galvanize the Quarians, but being a good admiral rather than a figurehead is a different story.

Yeah, I'm really hoping the quarians don't elect their admirals like the dwarves choose their paragons in DA. It worries me though, they did bring it up. 

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
I pretty much think that the games have foreshadowed her becoming an admiral. The gun is on the wall, so to speak.

Big deal.  The gun was on the wall about Garrus becoming a Spectre.  We all know how that turned out.

[Collider]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Collider wrote...
I pretty much think that the games have foreshadowed her becoming an admiral. The gun is on the wall, so to speak.

Big deal.  The gun was on the wall about Garrus becoming a Spectre.  We all know how that turned out.

That is true, but the trilogy isn't over yet. I wouldn't be surprised if a Garrus made "renegade" twice would reapply for the spectres. Note that that wouldn't necessitate that Garrus become a Spectre during the meat of the game. In other words, something like Tali becoming an admiral could easily simply be part of her epilogue.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
In other words, something like Tali becoming an admiral could easily simply be part of her epilogue.

And this would be a-okay.

[Collider]

Oh, so far as Tali having a relationship with Shepard and that affecting her work - if the choice is between her people or Shepard, she's going to choose the former every time. Tali has demonstrated that if Shepard does something she disapproves of, he'll get chewed out. Side with Legion or reveal the evidence and you can kiss her romance goodbye.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...

Oh, so far as Tali having a relationship with Shepard and that affecting her work - if the choice is between her people or Shepard, she's going to choose the former every time. Tali has demonstrated that if Shepard does something she disapproves of, he'll get chewed out. Side with Legion or reveal the evidence and you can kiss her romance goodbye.

That is true, but the example you cite has different stakes.  It's not "my relationship prevents me from entering into quarian politics (something she says she doesn't want to do anyway)," it's "the quarian plans being revealed to the geth could lead to the extinction of my people."

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Volrath937]

Collider wrote...

Oh, so far as Tali having a relationship with Shepard and that affecting her work - if the choice is between her people or Shepard, she's going to choose the former every time. Tali has demonstrated that if Shepard does something she disapproves of, he'll get chewed out. Side with Legion or reveal the evidence and you can kiss her romance goodbye.

I do like that Shepard isn't her entire world. She might love him, but she doesn't worship him. 

Siding with Legion is a pretty horrible thing to do regardless. I can't think of a way to justify allowing data that would likely lead to war with the quarians being sent to the geth.

Modifié par Volrath937, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[Orange Face_]

The Quarian admirals strike me as being civilian in nature, and military in name only... remember the entire civilization is confined to spaceships making the title of admiral necessary for the leadership. Honestly does the Admiral of the Quib Quib strike you as a military leader of Tali's aunt, or the Quarian that cut up her dolls for that matter? (sorry names escape me at this hour). The Quarians have a terrible problem because they can't separate their civilian affairs from their military, Vas Quib Quib points out that if they were to attack the Geth straight up they have no where to shelter the civilians and he's right. Kal Reeger saying all he can do is follow orders is absolutely correct, because none of the admirals except for Raeel's hommie don't seem to have the slightest idea about the Military. The Quarian people are deadlocked in a hopeless debate with a fleet of Reapers (possibly) on the Horizon. Tali is the only one who can (just my opinion) who can get them out of it, provided she makes peace with the Geth and allows the Military to perform its duties unhindered by politicians.

[Volrath937]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...
]Transmitting that data would be the end of her people. There is no doubt in my mind.

I've seen a video of what happens if you choose Legion there. It's a testament to her self-control that she doesn't shoot Legion and Shepard right there. Shepard had just handed down a death sentence on her race, and she can only fire her gun into the ceiling.

[NuclearBuddha]

Orange Face wrote...
The Quarian admirals strike me as being civilian in nature, and military in name only...

The codex, and Tali's description of the Admiralty in ME1 seem to invalidate this.  The Admirals exist to provide executive leadership in times when the 51,000 member Conclave can't make decisions fast enough.  They don't do day-to-day leadership.  In fact, if they overrule the Conclave, they have to resign afterwards.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:55 .

[Kikaimegami]

OH MY GOD







IT'S TALI!

[Volrath937]

Orange Face wrote...

The Quarian admirals strike me as being civilian in nature, and military in name only... remember the entire civilization is confined to spaceships making the title of admiral necessary for the leadership. Honestly does the Admiral of the Quib Quib strike you as a military leader of Tali's aunt, or the Quarian that cut up her dolls for that matter? (sorry names escape me at this hour). The Quarians have a terrible problem because they can't separate their civilian affairs from their military, Vas Quib Quib points out that if they were to attack the Geth straight up they have no where to shelter the civilians and he's right. Kal Reeger saying all he can do is follow orders is absolutely correct, because none of the admirals except for Raeel's hommie don't seem to have the slightest idea about the Military. The Quarian people are deadlocked in a hopeless debate with a fleet of Reapers (possibly) on the Horizon. Tali is the only one who can (just my opinion) who can get them out of it, provided she makes peace with the Geth and allows the Military to perform its duties unhindered by politicians.

Actually there is a clear divide between the military and the civilians. The civilians have the Conclave as their government, where the military is ruled by the Admiral Board. By nature of the quarians way of life, there would be overlap between the two. We're not given a clear idea of what the admirals do, but they are at the highest military rank in the Fleet. The problem with peace, is that by the end of ME2, even if you played it super-paragon, Tali has only accepted working with the geth for Shepard's sake. We'd need a lot more character development before we get to Ambassador Tali.

[NuclearBuddha]

Volrath937 wrote...
Ambassador Tali.

I think she'd make a good ambassador to the Council, actually.  She's doing a fine job representing her race already.  She'd just have to get a handle on the politics of it...

Hmmm...  maybe she's just better off sticking with Shep and being a quarian celebrity.

[Orange Face_]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Orange Face wrote...
Tali is the only one who can (just my opinion) who can get them out of it, provided she makes peace with the Geth and allows the Military to perform its duties unhindered by politicians.

She doesn't need to be on the board to do that. All she has to do is show evidence.

She does to cast the deciding vote... Raeel's hommie and the crazy doll killer are more likely to take an offer for peace as an invitation to attack.  Vas Quib Quib and and Tali's auntie seem likely to take the peace offer, that leaves a 2-2 tie, what other Quarian is going to go out on a limb to extend an olive branch, Kal? Doubt it, he's only fought the Geth not spoken to them.  Even if people don't think Tali is a good leader, they have to understand that she is the best hope to end the madness and get the Quarian people ready for the Geth.  Again I feel that this is exactly where Shep needs Tali... she can't help anymore from the Normandy not against a fleet of Reapers, not if Shep is Paragon.  If Tali can broker peace between Quarian and Geth and get these two groups, with Legion, to focus on the Reapers that will be the best outcome for Tali.  I honestly think this is the most likely scenario for Tali to show her face, and all Quarians for that fact, becasue they now have a home world, not a fleet broken by geth or Reapers.

[Orange Face_]

We'd need a lot more character development before we get to Ambassador Tali.



Agreed, but that is why Tali is so interesting. She's the only ME character that can potentially grow by leaps and bounds. She starts off a young pilgrim but very strong and looking for the best way to help her people, in 2 we see the young leader learning painful lessons in 3...?

[Volrath937]

Orange Face wrote...

She does to cast the deciding vote... Raeel's hommie and the crazy doll killer are more likely to take an offer for peace as an invitation to attack.  Vas Quib Quib and and Tali's auntie seem likely to take the peace offer, that leaves a 2-2 tie, what other Quarian is going to go out on a limb to extend an olive branch, Kal? Doubt it, he's only fought the Geth not spoken to them.  Even if people don't think Tali is a good leader, they have to understand that she is the best hope to end the madness and get the Quarian people ready for the Geth.  Again I feel that this is exactly where Shep needs Tali... she can't help anymore from the Normandy not against a fleet of Reapers, not if Shep is Paragon.  If Tali can broker peace between Quarian and Geth and get these two groups, with Legion, to focus on the Reapers that will be the best outcome for Tali.  I honestly think this is the most likely scenario for Tali to show her face, and all Quarians for that fact, becasue they now have a home world, not a fleet broken by geth or Reapers.

Xen is likely to be some sort of enemy in ME3, the foreshadowing is heavy for it. Whether or not you can use her finished virus to take control of the geth is also up in the air.
Legion is the first geth unit to speak to an organic since the quarians were on Rannoch.
It's possible it could go that way, it seems to be implied she'll be instrumental in peace.
She states explicitly that it would generations and gene therapy before they could live on Rannoch without suits.

[Orange Face_]

What specifically do you think indicates a relationship with her and Kal? I personally don't see it at all, so I'd like your perspective.



Call it a hunch, I don't see her relationship with Kal being much different than her relationship with Shep. Dashing military leader fights to keep her alive, maybe you are correct and the conversations between the two are simply polite, but I think there is a mutual shyness between the two. If Shep chooses not to Romance Tali I think she ends up with Kal, maybe more of a gut feeling than anything else.

[TheodoricFriede]

I don't see the whole Tali/Kal relationship. I think she likes him, and they're friends, but i just don't see either them as wanting to be romantically involved. even if Shepard doesn't romance Tali, I just don't think it would happen.

Hell, i think even Tali/Legion is more likely, but that could only because of that fanfic where...never mind...