16775 réponses à ce sujet

[SilentNukee]

Captain Crash wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

SilentK wrote...

TheHikariMoon wrote...

Truthfully, my initial reaction Tali telling femShep that she trusts her enough to link suits with her was to believe that Bioware cut another same sex romance from the game. This belief was particularly reinforced when I watched the TalixMaleShep romance dialogue on YouTube and found the line is the same (with the same inflection and tone) regardless of gender. The only difference is the conversation just abruptly and awkwardly ends with femShep.

Anyway, *reenagaes lurk mode*

Hmmm.... me too. I don't know how the feelings go in this tread since I don't read it that often. But I would be beyond happy if there was a possiblity for F!Shep to get into a relationship with Tali. It really feelt like it was about to happen, and then it ended with nothing. I personally hope for Tali because she would be such a wonderful partner to my F!Shep.

Me too...Imma cry if Tali doesn't become an option.

I might not cry but I'll be pissed for all that bit of teasing right there.

Was she teasing or being just really really friendly...  nope definitely teasing   

There no doubt in my mind it would work.   The poll I did a couple of days ago had a lot of support for her and femshep as well. Almost 40% wanting to see it, which suprised me. 

http://social.biowar...61/polls/20080/


So yeah the support is there.  Mainly because the dialogue is so suggestive to something more. 

There's only more "no" because the male Talimancers will QQ if anything is to go wrong with their romance with her because of included s/s. (Such as, less dialogue and what not.) I mean honestly, why would you care if you play a ManShep? It won't affect you the slightest bit. 

[Capt_Flashheart]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Capt_Flashheart wrote...
Most engineers specialise in a specific field. I myself am studying to become a nuclear engineer.
What area of engineering would you say Tali focuses on?

Hey!  A nuke bro!

Saphra Deden...

Anyway, on the topic of Shepard and Tali having a family, I think that would be selfish and cruel. Whether you adopted a quarian child or a human either way one of the parents will be kept separate from the child out of necessity. It's a bad thing for kid.

Of-course even if Tali and Shepard weren't hindered by the need for one of them to wear a clean suit 99% of the time I would still be against it for other reasons.

I always thought Tali would make a good mother. She has a very caring personalitiy and always puts the needs of others first.

[Troodon80]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Gah! You and Vol both harassing me!

(I'd do more Call of the Elder Machines first.)

Oh, come on, you know you like the attention.

But, really, the stories were great. You should do more.

There's only more "no" because the male Talimancers will QQ if anything is to go wrong with their romance with her because of included s/s. (Such as, less dialogue and what not.) I mean honestly, why would you care if you play a ManShep? It won't affect you the slightest bit.

It's not about 'why would you care'; it's about altering a character that the majority believe to be straight. Here's a question: Why would you care if you only get a very nice, deep, platonic friendship. Does everything have to revolve around 'something more'?

I've said it before, as have others: in ME2 Tali is only interested, romantically, in Male Shepard (I'll keep saying this next bit, otherwise people may assume something else; But I'm talking about not using a save editor or mod). Yes, I can concede that Tali is (probably) primarily fan service, BioWare chose to put Tali in, apparently, because so many people showed an interest. But why does she have to be changed any more than she already is?

And I'll say what others have said too, I'm not homophobic, and having a bi or homosexual in the game for some people would make sense, financially, to fulfil that portion of the market; so introduce a new option. No one I can see so far, in this thread, is against that idea. But changing Tali now, to suit that role, would annoy quite a few people.

And besides, the third and final game in the series is supposed to finish off the romance. Since you couldn't romance Tali as a Female Shepard (without the use of a save game editor), then what's the chance of that happening, in depth, in ME3? It's supposed to be the finale, not the beginning. Assuming ou start a new game, it'll be like starting a new game in DA2; you'll get to pick something of a predetermined route for your character, either as a menu option, or as a comic like in ME2. Either way, Tali wasn't romance-able for Female Shepard in ME2.

I can't see a way where, regardless of what she says in ME2, she could be romance-able in ME3 since it's basically the continuation of something that has already occurred, and is now being finalised with the trilogy. And, as I said, Tali couldn't be romanced in ME2 by female Shepard (without the use of a save game editor), so there's nothing to carry over. And, according to Mr. Priestly altering a save game could negatively affect your import and advises against doing that.

[SilentNukee]

^ You're...very stubborn. I guess no one could ever try to change your view on the issue. Have you not read back on the actual evidence that there could potentially be something more for FemShep + Tali? (And there was meant to be, but it couldn't because of time constraints. Read the article in the general thread about it.) You do realize ME is basically the only BW game that doesn't have s/s romances? And now, they're actually doing it because they basically have all the time in the world. (Well, a few more months anyway.) Tali was made a LI because of fanbase and it worked out well. Tali can become an option for FemShep and it will work out well just the same. (Because it won't affect your ManShep's game AT ALL.)

All the straight yet not "homophobic" males want to throw us new squaddies with LI option for s/s. Great, too bad 95% of you won't even try to have that squadmate on your team ever because of huge gay stereotypes...While if it's previous existing LI, we know their personality (and it will NOT change because they're open to s/s) and thus it won't lead to people completely ignoring their presence...Which I fear a lot of people will do if there is a strickly gay or bisexual new LI squadmate of their Shepard's gender. It is an RPG, and you can choose to ignore anyone you want in your game, but I don't think it'll be fair to completely overlook someone just because of their sexual orientation. It also wouldn't be fair to BioWare, because they put so much detail and originality in establishing squadmates.

Modifié par SilentNukee, 20 mai 2011 - 11:50 .

[AnimaTempli101]

Isn't that a bit generalizing in itself. I'm straight and not homophobic and I used Zevran all the time in DA without romancing him, as did many people I knew. So I believe that 95% stat is a bit exaggerated.

Modifié par AnimaTempli101, 20 mai 2011 - 12:31 .

[Troodon80]

SilentNukee wrote...

^ You're...very stubborn.

I've been told that before, yes.

I guess no one could ever try to change your view on the issue.

Not unless you can show me a legitimate Tali romance between her and female Shepard from ME2, without using a save game editor, mod, or other such method.

Have you not read back on the actual evidence that there could potentially be something more for FemShep + Tali?

Tali wasn't romance-able in ME2. I don't see proof to the contrary, other than some half-complete audio that didn't make it to the final cut of the game; for whatever reasons.

You do realize ME is basically the only BW game that doesn't have s/s romances?

I never said it was or wasn't. I am a firm believer that BioWare should introduce a character that would appeal to that market. But I'm also a firm believer that it should be a new LI, not an existing one.

(Because it won't affect your ManShep's game AT ALL.)

See my post above. And you still didn't answer my question: Why would you care if you only get a very nice, deep, platonic friendship. Does everything have to revolve around 'something more'?

Great, too bad 95% of you won't even try to have that squadmate on your team ever because of huge gay stereotypes...

Generally, I have Garrus and Tali or Jack and Tali on non-loyalty missions, but I have had over 50 playthroughs in which I've had every combination with Tali for the duration after the recruitment in each.

Also; no one said that they wouldn't try to have that character because of "huge gay stereotypes". That's insulting. And you're putting words into peoples mouths.

If there is a homosexual or bi character in the game, then yes, I will have that person in my squad for some of the game, I just wont be romancing them.

While if it's previous existing LI, we know their personality (and it will NOT change because they're open to s/s) and thus it won't lead to people completely ignoring their presence...

If they change the personality and sexuality of a character, then no one can say they "know that character", and thus, will likely disparage or dishearten quite a number of fans.

Which I fear a lot of people will do if...

I fear if BioWare does this, then there will be a lot of unhappy fans.

Don't make assumptions about other fans, this isn't the place for that.

It also wouldn't be fair to BioWare, because they put so much detail and originality in establishing squadmates.

And those exact squadmates are established. To alter a character now doesn't make sense.

[Captain Crash]

Troodon80 wrote...

I guess no one could ever try to change your view on the issue.

Not unless you can show me a legitimate Tali romance between her and female Shepard from ME2, without using a save game editor, mod, or other such method.

This is very defensive.   You know as well as anyone this doesnt exist.  However the fact remains that Tali is very suggestive to femshep it easily means a romance could be construed.



Especially after this conversation for male shep it leads to romance.   Its not just imagining something that isnt there, from watching that vid you have to admit it is very suggestive and open to interpretation.  Hense so much talk and discussion about it.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Captain Crash wrote...

Troodon80 wrote...

I guess no one could ever try to change your view on the issue.

Not unless you can show me a legitimate Tali romance between her and female Shepard from ME2, without using a save game editor, mod, or other such method.

This is very defensive.   You know as well as anyone this doesnt exist.  However the fact remains that Tali is very suggestive to femshep it easily means a romance could be construed.



Especially after this conversation for male shep it leads to romance.   Its not just imagining something that isnt there, from watching that vid you have to admit it is very suggestive and open to interpretation.  Hense so much talk and discussion about it.

I agree with Captain Crash. It is as if for some reason it was planned, but cut from the game for reasons unknown.

[Troodon80]

You know as well as anyone this doesn't exist.

It was more of a rhetorical question rather than being defensive.

Its not just imagining something that isnt there, from watching that vid you have to admit it is very suggestive and open to interpretation.

The simple fact is that a romance in ME2 for female Shepard's, between them and Tali, doesn't exist(without the use of a saved game editor).

Whether it's suggestive or not is regardless, the fact still remains; in ME2, it didn't happen. And, as I said, the third and final game in the series is supposed to finish off the romance you had in ME2. Since you couldn't romance Tali as a Female Shepard (without the use of a save game editor), then what's the chance of that happening, in depth, in ME3? It's supposed to be the finale, not the beginning of what happened in ME2.

And, if I might pose the same question to you as I did (but haven't gotten an answer yet) to SilentNukee: Why would you care if you only get a very nice, deep, platonic friendship. Does everything have to revolve around 'something more'?

You've already said you'd settle for it, so why the insistence that BioWare has to do this?

Also; In the video that you've posted, Tali clearly states that she'd be honoured to link suits (not get into a romance) with you. On top of that, she also says "If you were a quarian, and we weren't on a suicide mission".

To me, personally, this sounds more like "I like you, a lot, as a friend," or "I like you, a lot, but not in that way," or (to be more in line with her words) "I trust, greatly." (But with no romantic inclinations)

As you said, it's largely open to interpretation, so that is why I have to ask for actual proof. If Tali was bi in ME2, then I'd be fine with it because there would be no change. But because ME2 was pretty much the place where the romance happened with Tali, then that would have been the place to do it. But because they didn't, then I don't think they should alter that so-called canon sexuality. Just leave Tali as-is, and create a new option. I don't see any people objecting to this idea in this thread.

[AnimaTempli101]

You do have to remember linking suits is not the Quarian equivalent of sex, but a show of trust. Tali's mother and Shala'Raan linked suits before Tali was born, wasn't anything sexual there.

[Troodon80]

You do have to remember linking suits is not the Quarian equivalent of sex, but a show of trust. Tali's mother and Shala'Raan linked suits before Tali was born, wasn't anything sexual there.

This is what I remember every time I hear people say about having a romance with Tali based solely on linking suits. Which is why I maintain that while there is a deep sense of trust there, I don't see any romantic (bi, etc) inclinations.

Modifié par Troodon80, 20 mai 2011 - 02:09 .

[Pride Demon]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

This is very defensive.   You know as well as anyone this doesnt exist.  However the fact remains that Tali is very suggestive to femshep it easily means a romance could be construed.



Especially after this conversation for male shep it leads to romance.   Its not just imagining something that isnt there, from watching that vid you have to admit it is very suggestive and open to interpretation.  Hense so much talk and discussion about it.

I agree with Captain Crash. It is as if for some reason it was planned, but cut from the game for reasons unknown.

I personally can't find myself being either in favour or against the matter of a possibly bi Tali and I already give my explanation as to why.
Like I said many many times we just know too little to actually speculate in any relevant way, all we get by threading this topic blindly is disagreement and inconclusive evidence, perhaps we should avoid talking about this in the official Tali thread to avoid confusion, at least untill we know more...

I'd like to point out however (just for clarity), that linking suit doesn't necessarily imply sexual attraction, just an enormous amount of trust (Shala'Raan and Tali's mother linked suits but for a totally non sexual reason)...
And as for apparently cut content, I'd like to point out (as demonstrated by dydimos' exceptional work) Hale voiced pieces of dialogue for all of the possible romances (yes, even Miranda and Jack), I definitely don't know why she would, but she did... The responses for those romances are even present in Shadow Broker...

Make of that what you will...

Edit... Partial ninja'd...

Modifié par Pride Demon, 20 mai 2011 - 02:10 .

[AnimaTempli101]

It's possible that they did all the voice recordings before choosing the final romance options for which gender.

[Troodon80]

Perhaps we should avoid talking about this in the official Tali thread to avoid confusion.

I say take it to the Fight for the Love thread. While discussion about this is welcome, no proof exists, as far as I can see, and so it's completely speculative.

I don't see the need to insist that BioWare make Tali a bi option. If people are really true to what they say, that they would settle for a fulfilling and trusting friendship rather than a romance, then what's the problem...? I would have settled for that in ME2 if that was the only option for male Shepard. Heck, I'd have settled for just having Tali in ME2, without even having her as a romance option.

[Captain Crash]

Troodon80 wrote...

The simple fact is that a romance in ME2 for female Shepard's, between them and Tali, doesn't exist(without the use of a saved game editor).  

Whether it's suggestive or not is regardless, the fact still remains; in ME2, it didn't happen

Yes you keep repeating this,  We know. The only one debating it is you as you keep bringing it up and we keep agreeing.   However this being the core of your arguement is very flimsy indeed.  Why does the third game have to round off old romances and not start new ones?    Bioware stated they will have new LI already and potentially existing ones.   Just because its new doesnt make it less meaningfull. 

Why would you care if you only get a very nice, deep, platonic friendship. Does everything have to revolve around 'something more'?

You relise the irony of the statement right?   Male Sheps had a platonic a meaningful friendship with her in ME1. Then due to feedback Bioware took that platonic relationship and made it a romance in ME2.   So why should Bioware stop there just for you?    

Also; In the video that you've posted, Tali clearly states that she'd be honoured to link suits (not get into a romance) with you. On top of that, she also says "If you were a quarian, and we weren't on a suicide mission".

To me, personally, this sounds more like "I like you, a lot, as a friend," or "I like you, a lot, but not in that way," or (to be more in line with her words) "I trust, greatly." (But with no romantic inclinations)

As you said, it's largely open to interpretation, so that is why I have to ask for actual proof.

Again you agree its open to interpretation.  You can see why people are construed to think theres something more to it, even if you dont agree. Then straight away you ask for proof knowing there is none.  There are however a lot of hypotheticals which show potential:  Tali tone with femshep can be seen as flirty.  Tali clearly adores Shepard of either gender.  Tali never states at any point her sexuality.  Shes ok jumping the species line, why stop there?

There is no proof but there is lots and lots of potential.  She adores Shepard and it shows. Tali could very easily become a LI to femshep or they could stay friends.   Many would like an option where to go next.  Afterall Mass Effect is about choice.

[Collider]

DrRedrum wrote...

Okay I am confused, I have the notion that they have confirmed on 2 separate reports that 1: There were no new love interests in Mass Effect 3, and 2: That there will be S/S choices for Shepard for Mass Effect 3.

Wouldn't that imply that at least some of the characters are going to be ret-conned?

Not necessarily retconed. They could use Joker for instance, while it's clear he's interested in women, he hasn't had a romance yet. All the really need is M/M to fulfill S/S choice for men and women, as Liara already exists.

All the straight yet not "homophobic" males want to throw us new
squaddies with LI option for s/s. Great, too bad 95% of you won't even
try to have that squadmate on your team ever because of huge gay
stereotypes...While if it's previous existing LI, we know their
personality (and it will NOT change because they're open to s/s) and
thus it won't lead to people completely ignoring their presence...Which I
fear a lot of people will do if there is a strickly gay or bisexual new
LI squadmate of their Shepard's gender. It is an RPG, and you can
choose to ignore anyone you want in your game, but I don't think it'll
be fair to completely overlook someone just because of their sexual
orientation. It also wouldn't be fair to BioWare, because they put so
much detail and originality in establishing squadmates.

With all due respect...I don't think this really applies to almost anyone here. Me? I've used a certain rogue elf character from DA in my party all the time - the same rogue character who quite distinctly flirts with male wardens, which I played.
It's important not to equate wanting a new LI with homophobia. Virtually none of us would have found fault with any character being bisexual in the first place. The concern is just character continuity. I think given Horizon's treatment of Ashley and Kaidan, concern over keeping characters in character is a valid worry.

[AnimaTempli101]

Collider wrote...

DrRedrum wrote...

Okay I am confused, I have the notion that they have confirmed on 2 separate reports that 1: There were no new love interests in Mass Effect 3, and 2: That there will be S/S choices for Shepard for Mass Effect 3.

Wouldn't that imply that at least some of the characters are going to be ret-conned?

Not necessarily retconed. They could use Joker for instance, while it's clear he's interested in women, he hasn't had a romance yet. All the really need is M/M to fulfill S/S choice for men and women, as Liara already exists.

I would laugh if the new M/M LI turned out to be a completely random person that we already know. Like Hawthorne. 

[Someone With Mass]

My guess is that the voice actors recorded the same sex romances while they were doing everything else just in case BioWare decided that they wanted them, so there'd be less of a hassle with recordings later.

[Collider]

Someone With Mass wrote...

My guess is that the voice actors recorded the same sex romances while they were doing everything else just in case BioWare decided that they wanted them, so there'd be less of a hassle with recordings later.

I've looked through the audio files for both ME1 and ME2 - they all seem to point towards this.

[AnimaTempli101]

@Mass

Look five posts up.

[Troodon80]

The only one debating it is you as you keep bringing it up and we keep agreeing.

See the top of the page. I only responded to that, because it keeps bring brought up.

You relise the irony of the statement right? Male Sheps had a platonic a meaningful friendship with her in ME1. Then due to feedback Bioware took that platonic relationship and made it a romance in ME2. So why should Bioware stop there just for you?

I don't really see any irony, I wasn't one of the people who demanded that she be included as a romance option. If you see the post above yours, I've already mentioned that.

Tali tone with femshep can be seen as flirty.

I'm not seeing it, to be honest. I'm seeing Tali admit that she has a lot of trust towards Shepard, but since she then says "if you were a quarian" (which you're not) and "if we weren't on a suicide mission" which you are at the time of when she says this (disregarding recruiting her and romancing her after completing the suicide mission.)

Tali clearly adores Shepard of either gender.

Adoration doesn't mean sex. Or love. Or romance. Or that she's bi.

Tali never states at any point her sexuality.

No she doesn't, you're right in that. And neither have I, but I think it's obvious what I am.

Afterall Mass Effect is about choice.

And you claim I can came up with an ironic comment.

You realise, and you agree, that they didn't give you this option in ME2, so it's not all about choice, it's about the choices that BioWare gives you.

The concern is just character continuity. I think given Horizon's treatment of Ashley and Kaidan, concern over keeping characters in character is a valid worry.

I agree very much.

[AnimaTempli101]

@ "I think it's obvious what I am."

Actually the Panda has me confused.

[XX55XX]

I personally do not disapprove of bisexuality or homosexuality in video games at all. Given the movement towards sexual emancipation over the past few decades in Western society, I think featuring bisexuality and homosexuality in a video game would rouse the least amount of controversy (given how this board loves everything BioWare), but the key issue here is that BioWare appears ready to ret-con the sexuality of many major characters - characters we are emotionally invested in - for the sake of satisfying this social zeitgeist that necessitates the portrayal of bisexuality and homosexuality in the media.

If Tali had been homosexual or bisexual to begin with, I see no issue. However, for BioWare to go out of their way to satisfy a minority of gamers on this board - breaking narrative continuity in process, is a very sad thing, and something which I wholeheartedly disapprove of.

The issue lies not in that some of us are uncomfortable with homosexuality or bisexuality (admittedly, a very small minority of us are), but in that ret-cons are the least satisfactory way of giving gamers of various sexual orientations "more options," so to speak.

They can easily make Joker homosexual. That new James Vega? He could be homosexual too. What about Kelly? Why not expand on her a bit? What about Mordin, Grunt, etc? They too could be homosexual. What about Zaeed? BioWare has the option of giving gamers more options without ret-conning anyone.

Modifié par XX55XX, 20 mai 2011 - 03:00 .

[AnimaTempli101]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He speaks the truth! (Apart from Zaeed and Grunt, can't see that happening)

[Captain Crash]

Troodon80 wrote...

I don't really see any irony, I wasn't one of the people who demanded that she be included as a romance option. If you see the post above yours, I've already mentioned that.

Thats fine, but if your not concerned she wasn't included as a romance option to begin with its a bit hypocritical to now demand she remain as she is.   

Tali tone with femshep can be seen as flirty.

I'm not seeing it, to be honest. I'm seeing Tali admit that she has a lot of trust towards Shepard, but since she then says "if you were a quarian" (which you're not) and "if we weren't on a suicide mission" which you are at the time of when she says this (disregarding recruiting her and romancing her after completing the suicide mission.)

Again thats fine, you said you dont.  But lots of people are seeing it.  Thus the growing support for her to become a future LI based on the way she reacts and acts around femshep.    It may be just "overly" friendly, but many people see something else there too.

Tali clearly adores Shepard of either gender.

Adoration doesn't mean sex. Or love. Or romance. Or that she's bi. 

Tali never states at any point her sexuality.

No she doesn't, you're right in that. And neither have I, but I think it's obvious what I am.

How about I reverse the question you keep asking.   Show us proof that Tali isnt Bi?  Or show us proof she "is what she is" and wont ever consider it?

You cant. The reason being that Tali character is still transparent enough to allow for a S/S romance if Bioware choose.

Afterall Mass Effect is about choice.

And you claim I can came up with an ironic comment.

You realise, and you agree, that they didn't give you this option in ME2, so it's not all about choice, it's about the choices that BioWare gives you.

Exactly!  So we are asking for Bioware to give us a choice.  The game is famous for its choice system but it still has confines.  Thus why were are posting on an online forum asking for the option.  Nothing ironic there.