16775 réponses à ce sujet

[ADLegend21]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Bright_Ops wrote...

You want to know what the fun thing is?

Everything Shepard did was all perfectly legal and honest, for the given value of honesty.

After all, he didn't exactly lie. He was completely truthful the whole time. He just proved his point before he needed to bring forth physical proof.

Shepard had to cover up War crimes, that's not exactly a Legal thing for her to do. I'll admit it was a great display of distracting from the point and making the admiralty board look foolish, but there was no need for Tali to cover up war crimes which could have been exposed to the geth be legion and caused a war which would be completely the fault of the quarians due to their shortsightedness. You'd think after 300 years more quarians would think like Qwib Qwib and want to make peace with the Geth especially after interacting with Legion who has no harmful intentions toward them.

If we actually wanted to get in a discussion about Legal, we could say that covering up crimes is basically the job description of a defense lawyer, and that's legal.

their job is to prove innicence, Shepard did neither and got the admiralty board caught up in angry rhetoric. Rael should have been brought to Justie, but then Tlai owuld have been mad at you for giving him what he deserves.

[Troodon80]

I agree, she's a wonderful character right now. But it doesn't necessarily mean there's no room for character development or that it would be a bad thing. She's still young and some growth as a person could be expected.

Indeed she is. I'm not saying character growth is a bad thing. For example, she may take the position of Admiral, if only for a short time just to sway the other Admiralty in one direction or another. We may see some surprising results with this. That would fulfil the bit about Tali never doing more than just being under Shepard's command, and advance her character, but not in such a way that she isn't what people thought she is or was. It's widely knows, and disputed, that Tali's name has been suggested for the position. So it's not entirely out of the question. But by doing that, it won't change the core of who she is.

On to the Tali trial matter. I don't think Shepard covering up the events on the Alarei is necessarily a bad thing. Sure, basically the right thing would be to present the truth, but would it be a good or smart thing in that case? As Tali warns, it could tear the fleet apart. In the conversation after the mission with Tali she tells the fleet is already dividing into groups by their stance against the Geth. Some are even splitting away from the fleet. In this light, hiding the evidence actually makes sense.

That's what most people think. As I said earlier, for me at least, it was abundantly obvious that revealing the evidence would be detrimental in some way or other. This thought is primarily due to the whole trial being a farce. A politically motivated farce to be exact. Each of the Admirals had an agenda. Except for possibly Shala, and even then I'm not too sure.

[Someone With Mass]

I find the idea of Tali becoming an admiral laughable, because she is a permanent squadmate, and I don't think any military or nation would ever allow one of their highest ranking military officers to be fighting on the ground.

[Collider]

I don't think there's anything inherently right or wrong about being honest or being dishonest. It's a matter of the situation.
Rael wanted certain admirals to see the data...that alone is great cause not to reveal the evidence, so that the data wouldn't be misused by people with less than safe agendas.
I also feel like I'm tampering too much in the quarian affairs if I reveal such sensitive information publicly like that.

[Troodon80]

I find the idea of Tali becoming an admiral laughable, because she is a permanent squadmate, and I don't think any military or nation would ever allow one of their highest ranking military officers to be fighting on the ground.

I actually don't find it laughable, as such. If something such as the Reapers come along, then there might not be a choice but get involved, since all of the Admirals are in charge of a ship. And those ships would/could be in danger. Those Admirals would then be thrown, head-first, onto the front lines.

I've detailed why Tali could become an Admiral here, on Collider's forum, for anyone who cares to take a look.

Not that I'm specifically in favour of her becoming and Admiral, but rather that I see no reason why she couldn't. Even if it is only for a short time.

[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Bright_Ops wrote...

You want to know what the fun thing is?

Everything Shepard did was all perfectly legal and honest, for the given value of honesty.

After all, he didn't exactly lie. He was completely truthful the whole time. He just proved his point before he needed to bring forth physical proof.

Shepard had to cover up War crimes, that's not exactly a Legal thing for her to do. I'll admit it was a great display of distracting from the point and making the admiralty board look foolish, but there was no need for Tali to cover up war crimes which could have been exposed to the geth be legion and caused a war which would be completely the fault of the quarians due to their shortsightedness. You'd think after 300 years more quarians would think like Qwib Qwib and want to make peace with the Geth especially after interacting with Legion who has no harmful intentions toward them.

If we actually wanted to get in a discussion about Legal, we could say that covering up crimes is basically the job description of a defense lawyer, and that's legal.

their job is to prove innicence, Shepard did neither and got the admiralty board caught up in angry rhetoric. Rael should have been brought to Justie, but then Tlai owuld have been mad at you for giving him what he deserves.

except hes dead, so you would be punishing every other quarian because the evidence would start a war.

[Gust4v]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I find the idea of Tali becoming an admiral laughable, because she is a permanent squadmate, and I don't think any military or nation would ever allow one of their highest ranking military officers to be fighting on the ground.

And sleeping with a human.

[NuclearBuddha]

ADLegend21 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
If we actually wanted to get in a discussion about Legal, we could say that covering up crimes is basically the job description of a defense lawyer, and that's legal.

their job is to prove innicence

Hold up now.  Spelling aside, the job of a defense attorney is to best serve their client's interest.  If they can do that by proving innocence, great.  If they can better serve them by ending the trial on a technicality, that's what they do.

Since Tali IS innocent, Shep can do as he likes with regards to the trial.  Because Tali is on trial, not her father.

[Collider]

Gust4v wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I find the idea of Tali becoming an admiral laughable, because she is a permanent squadmate, and I don't think any military or nation would ever allow one of their highest ranking military officers to be fighting on the ground.

And sleeping with a human.

Would they really care that much? I could only see it if Shepard causes widespread dislike of humans because of what happened in the Arrival DLC or something. The quarians in the Tali's loyalty mission that were prejudiced against Shepard only seemed to have a vague distrust.

[Homebound]

Totally did the tali shuffle with this girl at this bar the other day. So damn proud of myself for pulling off THAT little gem.

[DrRedrum]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Totally did the tali shuffle with this girl at this bar the other day. So damn proud of myself for pulling off THAT little gem.

Remnid me how that goes again?

[Gust4v]

Collider wrote...

Would they really care that much? I could only see it if Shepard causes widespread dislike of humans because of what happened in the Arrival DLC or something. The quarians in the Tali's loyalty mission that were prejudiced against Shepard only seemed to have a vague distrust.

Probably not much, but quarians like to debate.

Hellbound555 wrote...

Totally did the tali shuffle with
this girl at this bar the other day. So damn proud of myself for pulling
off THAT little gem.

Tali shuffle?

[ADLegend21]

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Bright_Ops wrote...

You want to know what the fun thing is?

Everything Shepard did was all perfectly legal and honest, for the given value of honesty.

After all, he didn't exactly lie. He was completely truthful the whole time. He just proved his point before he needed to bring forth physical proof.

Shepard had to cover up War crimes, that's not exactly a Legal thing for her to do. I'll admit it was a great display of distracting from the point and making the admiralty board look foolish, but there was no need for Tali to cover up war crimes which could have been exposed to the geth be legion and caused a war which would be completely the fault of the quarians due to their shortsightedness. You'd think after 300 years more quarians would think like Qwib Qwib and want to make peace with the Geth especially after interacting with Legion who has no harmful intentions toward them.

If we actually wanted to get in a discussion about Legal, we could say that covering up crimes is basically the job description of a defense lawyer, and that's legal.

their job is to prove innicence, Shepard did neither and got the admiralty board caught up in angry rhetoric. Rael should have been brought to Justie, but then Tlai owuld have been mad at you for giving him what he deserves.

except hes dead, so you would be punishing every other quarian because the evidence would start a war.

postumous exile doesn't start a war, plus what of the other quarians on the ship? "Mommy loves you very much!" what of her justice? she gets swept under the rug for Tali's selfishness because she doesn't want her father to be exiled in death.

[Homebound]

Tali Shuffle...

[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Bright_Ops wrote...

You want to know what the fun thing is?

Everything Shepard did was all perfectly legal and honest, for the given value of honesty.

After all, he didn't exactly lie. He was completely truthful the whole time. He just proved his point before he needed to bring forth physical proof.

Shepard had to cover up War crimes, that's not exactly a Legal thing for her to do. I'll admit it was a great display of distracting from the point and making the admiralty board look foolish, but there was no need for Tali to cover up war crimes which could have been exposed to the geth be legion and caused a war which would be completely the fault of the quarians due to their shortsightedness. You'd think after 300 years more quarians would think like Qwib Qwib and want to make peace with the Geth especially after interacting with Legion who has no harmful intentions toward them.

If we actually wanted to get in a discussion about Legal, we could say that covering up crimes is basically the job description of a defense lawyer, and that's legal.

their job is to prove innicence, Shepard did neither and got the admiralty board caught up in angry rhetoric. Rael should have been brought to Justie, but then Tlai owuld have been mad at you for giving him what he deserves.

except hes dead, so you would be punishing every other quarian because the evidence would start a war.

postumous exile doesn't start a war, plus what of the other quarians on the ship? "Mommy loves you very much!" what of her justice? she gets swept under the rug for Tali's selfishness because she doesn't want her father to be exiled in death.

Keeping the evidence is for the good of flotilla as it will not encourage them to go to war.
And what of the other quarians on the ship? That dosnt change the fact that Rael is still dead and therefor cannot be punished. Again, you would only be punishing the wrong people.
Also, how is it selfish? She is doing what matters for the good of her people.

Modifié par Quole, 21 mai 2011 - 10:04 .

[Gust4v]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Tali Shuffle...

*snip*

Congrats, but I think that dance only looks good with Tali.

[Alienmorph]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Tali Shuffle...

She looks almost... bored?

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

She does. Somehow. You can see her bored expression seeping from her mask.

I am more partial to the Legion robot myself

[SilentNukee]

It would also be nice to see her finally use that knife somehow.

[ADLegend21]

Quole wrote...

Keeping the evidence is for the good of flotilla as it will not encourage them to go to war.
And what of the other quarians on the ship? That dosnt change the fact that Rael is still dead and therefor cannot be punished. Again, you would only be punishing the wrong people.
Also, how is it selfish? She is doing what matters for the good of her people.

If Rael couldn't be punishe Tali wouldn't care if you presented the evidence! Obviously a posthumous exile is punishment enought hat tali DOESN'T want it for her father which is why she doesn't want you to present it "my father" this "my father" that. The only reason not to present it is to keep her loyalty so she'll surivive the suicide mission since presenting it is a failure of her mission. She's willing to be exiled in place of her father so that you don't present the evidence you found on him. also the "other" quarians are the ones who left the various research logs around. It wouldn't ecourage them to go to war because look what happened when they tried it, they all go slaughtered.

[NuclearBuddha]

ADLegend21 wrote...
postumous exile doesn't start a war, plus what of the other quarians on the ship? "Mommy loves you very much!" what of her justice? she gets swept under the rug for Tali's selfishness because she doesn't want her father to be exiled in death.

Um... you realize that the "mommy loves you very much" quarian was a war criminal too, right?  I mean, she was on the ship and therefore in on the whole thing.  Or are you arguing that besmirching her name to her bereaved family is the justice you want?

[NuclearBuddha]

SilentNukee wrote...

It would also be nice to see her finally use that knife somehow.

It's strange how this desire seems to transcend fandom.

[ADLegend21]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
postumous exile doesn't start a war, plus what of the other quarians on the ship? "Mommy loves you very much!" what of her justice? she gets swept under the rug for Tali's selfishness because she doesn't want her father to be exiled in death.

Um... you realize that the "mommy loves you very much" quarian was a war criminal too, right?  I mean, she was on the ship and therefore in on the whole thing.  Or are you arguing that besmirching her name to her bereaved family is the justice you want?

If she was in on it then she's a criminal as well. They knew what they were doing and what could happen so let them suffer the consequences of their actions. These are war crimes we're talking about. creating MORE geth to test weapons on them. If they're trying to avoid war as they say they are they'd punish them so that no one tries to duplicate their efforts tht produced enough geth to wipe out an entire ship.

[jacobOriley]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
If we actually wanted to get in a discussion about Legal, we could say that covering up crimes is basically the job description of a defense lawyer, and that's legal.

their job is to prove innicence

Hold up now.  Spelling aside, the job of a defense attorney is to best serve their client's interest.  If they can do that by proving innocence, great.  If they can better serve them by ending the trial on a technicality, that's what they do.

Since Tali IS innocent, Shep can do as he likes with regards to the trial.  Because Tali is on trial, not her father.

This is well said (finally) and to the point. That is exactly what a defense attorney is paid to do...or volunteered for in Shepard's case.

[Clonedzero]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I find the idea of Tali becoming an admiral laughable, because she is a permanent squadmate, and I don't think any military or nation would ever allow one of their highest ranking military officers to be fighting on the ground.

i find the idea laughable because she's in her early 20's (or quarian equilvelant) and has proven to be a pretty bad leader rofl.

i certainly wouldnt want her in charge of anything. freedoms progress, haelstrom, her loyalty mission. she should have NO authority over anything rofl.