16775 réponses à ce sujet

[jacobOriley]

Clonedzero wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I find the idea of Tali becoming an admiral laughable, because she is a permanent squadmate, and I don't think any military or nation would ever allow one of their highest ranking military officers to be fighting on the ground.

i find the idea laughable because she's in her early 20's (or quarian equilvelant) and has proven to be a pretty bad leader rofl.

i certainly wouldnt want her in charge of anything. freedoms progress, haelstrom, her loyalty mission. she should have NO authority over anything rofl.

'meh', your opinion and your choice. Admiralty positions are only offered to the top ranking military personel anyway. Being the daughter of an Admiral doesn't jump you to the head of the line.

Modifié par jacobOriley, 21 mai 2011 - 11:24 .

[DrRedrum]

Tali in Battle Armor for Mass Effect 3!


That trailer, considering its called "Earth" it makes me wonder if theres gonna be others for all major planets.

[AnimaTempli101]

Sorry, but I just gotta say this in regards to the whole " Admiral Tali" discussion. One of the arguments that people keep bringing up if they believe Tali shouldn't be an admiral (which I agree with but for different reasons) is "She's too young etc etc."

Ahem:

Alexander the Great of Macedon, King of Macedon at the age of 20, Controlled the Persian Empire at the age of 27 (roughly), died at the age of 32 with an empire spanning from Greece to India. Never lost a battle.

Now I'm not saying that Tali is the equal of Alexander, we all know she's not. However I just want to point out that age in and of itself is not a means of testing suitability of command. OK?

[Someone With Mass]

Just because you were elected as a leader doesn't necessarily mean that you're a good leader.

[Comsky159]

Tali is not really considered in-game to be leader material. If she is elected team leader at any point during the suicide missions then it will result in someone's death. Also the shadow broker's comment referred (somewhat harshly) upon her leadership skills in a very negative way. Can't see her fitting any governmental role tbh.

[AnimaTempli101]

All of which I agree with. Just pointing out age doesn't preclude leadership skills.

[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

Keeping the evidence is for the good of flotilla as it will not encourage them to go to war.
And what of the other quarians on the ship? That dosnt change the fact that Rael is still dead and therefor cannot be punished. Again, you would only be punishing the wrong people.
Also, how is it selfish? She is doing what matters for the good of her people.

If Rael couldn't be punishe Tali wouldn't care if you presented the evidence! Obviously a posthumous exile is punishment enought hat tali DOESN'T want it for her father which is why she doesn't want you to present it "my father" this "my father" that. The only reason not to present it is to keep her loyalty so she'll surivive the suicide mission since presenting it is a failure of her mission. She's willing to be exiled in place of her father so that you don't present the evidence you found on him. also the "other" quarians are the ones who left the various research logs around. It wouldn't ecourage them to go to war because look what happened when they tried it, they all go slaughtered.

I actually facepalmed when reading that. Im sorry to say, but your trolling is getting worse.

[NuclearBuddha]

ADLegend21 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
postumous exile doesn't start a war, plus what of the other quarians on the ship? "Mommy loves you very much!" what of her justice? she gets swept under the rug for Tali's selfishness because she doesn't want her father to be exiled in death.

Um... you realize that the "mommy loves you very much" quarian was a war criminal too, right?  I mean, she was on the ship and therefore in on the whole thing.  Or are you arguing that besmirching her name to her bereaved family is the justice you want?

If she was in on it then she's a criminal as well. They knew what they were doing and what could happen so let them suffer the consequences of their actions. These are war crimes we're talking about. creating MORE geth to test weapons on them. If they're trying to avoid war as they say they are they'd punish them so that no one tries to duplicate their efforts tht produced enough geth to wipe out an entire ship.

Was that a 180 in argument there?

Look, I think we get it.  You don't like Tali, want her to suffer, etc.  Thank you for your opinion.

[Collider]

I do think that the revealing the evidence should have been the paragon option, though. I sort of felt that the reason it wasn't in-game was because most players probably just spam the upper right dialog option.
Ideally though, there would be no paragon and renegade option. Like Dragon Age.

[Captainmilkshake17]

Clonedzero wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I find the idea of Tali becoming an admiral laughable, because she is a permanent squadmate, and I don't think any military or nation would ever allow one of their highest ranking military officers to be fighting on the ground.

i find the idea laughable because she's in her early 20's (or quarian equilvelant) and has proven to be a pretty bad leader rofl.

i certainly wouldnt want her in charge of anything. freedoms progress, haelstrom, her loyalty mission. she should have NO authority over anything rofl.

(please, by all means correct me if i am misenterpreting what you meant.)
Its a good observation, but with the wrong examples to back it up.
Tali may not be as good a leader as shepard, and with examples like freedom's progress, i cant blame people for coming to a conclusion like that. however, Prazza did show an extreme distrust towards cerberus, *I mean, think about it, they tried to blow up a part of what little home they have left.* imo its perfectly understandible that prazza acted the way he did. Haestrom was nothing you could fault tali for, she was downloading data at the time. the marines took every opportunity they could to protect her, not because she ordered them too. If you want to name tali a bad leader, at least find something better to use than an irrational quarian and a mission where she was unable to control anything that happened. *I'm speaking of when shepard arrives, *

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
I do think that the revealing the evidence should have been the paragon option, though. I sort of felt that the reason it wasn't in-game was because most players probably just spam the upper right dialog option.
Ideally though, there would be no paragon and renegade option. Like Dragon Age.

I think it's renegade because it affects an alien species negatively.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Collider wrote...
I do think that the revealing the evidence should have been the paragon option, though. I sort of felt that the reason it wasn't in-game was because most players probably just spam the upper right dialog option.
Ideally though, there would be no paragon and renegade option. Like Dragon Age.

I think it's renegade because it affects an alien species negatively.

Well there's that.

[LordPennlocke]

Well respecting her wish is what makes it Paragon I think, aside from the negative consequences giving the evidence has.

[Runescapeguy9]

some new stuff from DA

[khevan]

In regards to revealing the evidence in Tali's trial, I have absolutely no issue with keeping it private in the trial itself because said trial is a travesty that shouldn't have been taking place, really. It was simply a convenient excuse for certain quarian admirals to promote their political agendas, on all sides of the geth issue. Yelling at the Admiralty Board is, to my mind, the completely appropriate way of dealing with the trial itself. This also has the benefit of retaining Tali's loyalty for the SM, and for Shepard's personal relationship with her (LI or just friends, doesn't matter.)

However, there's the option to tell one of the admirals what really happened on the Alarei. I can't remember which one it is, at the moment. I haven't played ME2 in months. But I always take that option, because Rael's crimes do need to be exposed, even if doing so in this manner doesn't cause the same stir as it would exposing him during the trial. Rael has broken major quarian laws in doing what he did, and it's not right to sweep it under the rug. The trial itself, however, was the wrong venue to release the data, since it was nothing but a farce in the first place, and feeding into it for the sake of some admiral's political agenda would have left a very bad taste in my mouth.

Just my two cents, and perhaps a different perspective on the situation. Take it for what it's worth to you.

[Weiser_Cain]

I didn't want to risk making Tali mad after all that, plus none of the admirals really endeared themselves to me.

[jacobOriley]

Saphra Deden wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

I think it's renegade because it affects an alien species negatively.

There should have been more dialogue here, and I know there is a lot in Tali's mission already. You should have been able to argue the point with her a little more while on the Alerai. Not necessarily change her mind, but at least cover all the angles for the player.

I can at least agree with this somewhat, although there were some lines of 'arguement' available to Shepard, but perhaps not as strong as you would like. There are lots of limits placed on conversations, that many( including myself ) would probably like to see carried further, but I'm not a game developer.

@Rune, I've never seen that top pic. It's nice, lots of color.

khevan wrote...However, there's the option to tell one of the admirals what really
happened on the Alarei. I can't remember which one it is, at the
moment.

Wasn't it Admiral Gerrel who you could report that to, after the trial ?

edit, I didn't realize I got ninja'd on the Gerrel thing, oops.

Modifié par jacobOriley, 22 mai 2011 - 04:58 .

[khevan]

Saphra Deden wrote...

*snip*

Also, what is the point in presenting the evidence privately to one admiral? (Gerrel in this case)

He's not going to do anything about it. Rael gets a free pass.

The point is that the trial itself is the wrong time to reveal the evidence, in my opinion.  It's a sham trial meant to further the admirals' political agendas, and I (as Shepard) refuse to feed into it as much as is possible.  However, the evidence shouldn't simply be hidden away, since it is important that Rael's crimes are exposed, but it's only through metagame knowledge that the only admiral you can reveal the evidence to is Gerrel, and that not much will be done.

Examining the issue from an RP perspective (which I try to do as much as is possible) it makes more sense to yell down the Admiralty Board, and then expose the evidence in private, so that's what I do.  What Gerrel does with the evidence afterwards isn't my concern.  I let him know, I've done my part in exposing Rael's crimes, and from there it's an internal quarian issue, and no longer mine.

[khevan]

jacobOriley wrote...

khevan wrote...However, there's the option to tell one of the admirals what really
happened on the Alarei. I can't remember which one it is, at the
moment.

Wasn't it Admiral Gerrel who you could report that to, after the trial ?

Yeah, I thought it might have been him, but wasn't sure if it was him or Raan.  But I figured it out thru this conversation.

[khevan]

Saphra Deden wrote...

khevan wrote...

Examining the issue from an RP perspective (which I try to do as much as is possible) it makes more sense to yell down the Admiralty Board, and then expose the evidence in private, so that's what I do.  What Gerrel does with the evidence afterwards isn't my concern.  I let him know, I've done my part in exposing Rael's crimes, and from there it's an internal quarian issue, and no longer mine.

I understand that and it irks me that Shepard doesn't have more freedom of choice there. You should be able to present the evidence to EACH admiral if you wish. That way I could keep it all secret and give a copy of the data to Xen!

Yeah, it kinda irks me too.  I wish I could have at least told Raan.  Xen creeped me out, to be honest, but that's a discussion for another time and place.  The way I do things with the trial just makes the most sense to me, and conveniently fulfills all of my desires in regards to the situation.  I have Tali's loyalty (and possibility for LI, depending on playthru), and I've done what I think is right in regards to Rael's crimes.  I get the best of both worlds, even if thru metagaming knowledge we know that Gerrel doesn't do anything in ME2 about it.  ME3 might have some consequences for Rael's memory, depending on how things went down, but at least from an RP perspective, I did it all "right" as far as I'm concerned.

[jacobOriley]

Saphra Deden wrote...

khevan wrote...

Examining the issue from an RP perspective (which I try to do as much as is possible) it makes more sense to yell down the Admiralty Board, and then expose the evidence in private, so that's what I do.  What Gerrel does with the evidence afterwards isn't my concern.  I let him know, I've done my part in exposing Rael's crimes, and from there it's an internal quarian issue, and no longer mine.

I understand that and it irks me that Shepard doesn't have more freedom of choice there. You should be able to present the evidence to EACH admiral if you wish. That way I could keep it all secret and give a copy of the data to Xen!

Well, knock me down and call me shorty, I never saw that one coming  *heavy on the sarcasm*

Modifié par jacobOriley, 22 mai 2011 - 05:05 .

[Jhonny Nocturne]

 Huh....
Anyway, I was randomly looking through the old forum and found a very early discussion of Tali.

This was after the first (I believe) screen of her dropped and before her name was given. I thought it fun to read through the early speculation.