82 réponses à ce sujet

[bjdbwea]

I was quite critical of Mass Effect 2 in the last few months. And I still think that my complaints about story and gameplay are valid. But in two important aspects I was wrong.

First, I went as far as alleging that the writers currently working on the Mass Effect series weren't able to deliver the amazing writing and story telling that BioWare was always renowned for. I still don't understand why the writing (especially the main story) in ME 2 was that mediocre, but the matter of the fact is: The Liara DLC proves that the writers can do better, at least in the (smaller) scope of a DLC. I especially like that finally my Shepard can show some emotions and act like a human again. I very much hope that this is the quality and dedication to the writing that we will see in ME 3 too.

Secondly, I alleged that BioWare tossed the old characters aside and didn't care for them anymore. This, obviously, was also wrong. But it should have been no surprise to the developers that this impression arose - not because Liara's scene in the main game was short, but because it was crude and some very obvious topics in dialogue just weren't available. What else were the players supposed to think than "oh well, she obviously didn't matter enough"? A few sentences more, and the impression would have been very different.

I do question the necessity to outsource the "real" content into a DLC. But - if the result is something as amazing and beautiful as it is now, then yes, I am willing to pay for that. (In fact, for this content they could have charged double the price, and I would have paid it. And by the way, this DLC was the only reason I still had any interest in the game, and now I even bought some other DLCs because of it.)

So, bottom line: Even though no one cares what anyone writes on a forum anyway, for what it's worth, I'm sorry for some of the things that I wrote. I'm now looking forward to ME 3 much more again, and even though I still probably won't pre-order it, if it's of this quality (and if Liara has a prominent role), I will most certainly buy it immediately.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 14 septembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[Mako Zalos]

Bravo for turning your back on the darkside. XP

[xbeton0L]

another one of us has a brain. and it actually thinks too.



your honesty and intelligence is appreciated.

[kraidy1117]

I'm glad to see you enjoyed LotSB Bjd

[javierabegazo]

It's pretty cool to see the overwhelming approval that LOTSB is getting

[Tazzmission]

javierabegazo wrote...

It's pretty cool to see the overwhelming approval that LOTSB is getting

i agree and i hope now alot of the  i hate me2 fans realise that patience is a must because with more story dlc comming its best to be patient

[jlb524]

I figured you would love LotSB, bjdbwea.

Ugh, I may have said some terrible things too, back in the Liara thread.

So...I'm sorry too!

Modifié par jlb524, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:33 .

[kraidy1117]

Shavon wrote...

Yeah . . . it was so hard to stay positive for long. So many of us got bitter, and b!tched at each other, etc. If only we were patient, it definitely would have payed off.

That was a wonderful thing to do for the fans. : )

At least BW came through Shav... that's all that counts, even if they made some screw ups

[bjdbwea]

Shavon wrote...

Yeah . . . it was so hard to stay positive for long. So many of us got bitter, and b!tched at each other, etc. If only we were patient, it definitely would have payed off.

Yes. But as I said, there was a reason for this bitterness. It could easily have been avoided with just slight and completely inexpensive changes to Liara's scene in the main game. Doesn't matter anymore now, but I hope BioWare will learn from it. Everyone would still have bought the DLC, even (or perhaps especially) without the previous disappointment.

Shavon wrote...

That was a wonderful thing to do for the fans. : )

I completely agree.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[Whatever42]

Even though I usually disagree with you (me being a raving fanboy), I think I understood where you were coming from. Personally, I thought the writing was good in ME2 and the characters were great but a little shallow - its almost like they tried to be everything to everyone except ME1 fans. LotSB showed what they could really do when they decided to really spend some time with a character and they picked the right character with which to do it. I'm really pleased for Liara fans (and became one myself).



I have some pretty high hopes for ME3 now, though. They better not backslide from this level of quality!

[only1sgop]

Has it ever stopped, really?  Nerdrage has no beginning.  Nerdrage has no end.  It is eternal.  It is infinite.

This reminds me of the Valve forum fans being angry waiting for the Left 4 Dead demo and other Valve games that did not release on schedule. Most of Valve products are released late. Well the good thing is Bioware fans actually apoloigze to back the company. Now that's loyality

Modifié par only1sgop, 14 septembre 2010 - 09:05 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

It's funny how people react to fan service. /jk

I have to say that the BIG reaction to the negative feedback that we can in this DLC was related to romance scene and how the story connects to the reaper plot. The romance in LotSB is MILES away from the romance in ME2 and it's a BIG step in the right direction. I hope we see Liara as the SB in ME3 and that she becomes our information broker instead of TIM.

[bjdbwea]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Even though I usually disagree with you (me being a raving fanboy), I think I understood where you were coming from. Personally, I thought the writing was good in ME2 and the characters were great but a little shallow - its almost like they tried to be everything to everyone except ME1 fans. LotSB showed what they could really do when they decided to really spend some time with a character and they picked the right character with which to do it. I'm really pleased for Liara fans (and became one myself).

That's great to hear. And we won't disagree in the "disappointment" thread anymore, because I'll rest my case there. As I said, I still think that my complaints there are valid, but if this DLC is anything to judge from, BioWare have already learnt and improved. And that's all one could ever ask for. I just hope they'll continue like this.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:12 .

[theelementslayer]

You know this is awesome, the community is actually getting along again, and not many people are pissed at Bioware still. The dissapointment thread had fallen and well it is awesome to see.



Keep it up BioWare, if ME3 is half as awesome as the Lair, Im sure to have fun with it. If it is more awesome, which I hope, then well, Ill be blown away...again.

[drunkenposter]

I too was disappointed with ME 2, though not nearly to the extent of some in the "disappointment" thread. My main gripe was a feeling of disconnect between the two games, especially when it came to some of the characters, like Liara, from the first.



The awesome Lair of the Shadow Broker has completely restored my faith, as well as given me that warm fuzzy Mass Effect-y feeling again. Can't wait for more DLC. Can't wait for ME 3.

[javierabegazo]

I think one of the most amazing things with the last two DLC's, Overlord and LotSB is that in the levels, we actually got outside. I'll never forget the first time I landed on an uncharted planet in ME1, and there were these great meteorites, streaming through the reddened sky, with looming mountains and craters dotting the way. i remember that I stepped out of the Mako, and just spent around 10 minutes watching, just watching the sky, and those meteorites cascading down, it was beautiful and poetic and not something I normally experience in a video game. I was blown away and thrown headlong into Mass Effect's romance of Space, and the endless wonder.

While I've been generally in love with ME2, and have favored most of the changes, I never really realized how small the world was in ME2, until I landed on Aite in Overlord.

Racing through these lush green fields, and hovering over small lakes, it took me back to that moment when I saw those meteorites. I forgot that I was just playing a game and I just sat back and smiled that full-of-awe kind of smile that happens when you see something colossal, and beautiful, and so mysterious you want to explore every inch, afraid that you'll miss something. I could go on and on but I would venture into Spoiler Land in my enthusiasm about the environments of Overlord and LotSB.

But that's what was special to me about the two DLC's, the expansiveness, so great that you felt a tiny infinitesimal speck, This is why I think Mass effect is so special. It has it's moments where it takes control away from the player for the sake of the narrative , and then really sucks you into the story, in that in this story, you, the character do NOT always have control over what happens.
(falling elevator in anyone?
Raising the bar, BioWare You sure have raised expectations for the coming Mass Effect content

All I ask is to give us more sky boxes. Make us feel as small as are

Modifié par javierabegazo, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Terror_K]

While I definitely agree that Overlord was great and that LotSB was absolutely fantastic, both of these were on their own merits. Overlord was let down a little by the Hammerhead, which is quite frankly a God-awful vehicle in almost every respect that doesn't really make sense and is poorly implemented. Beyond that it was great. LotSB's only real flaws were the identity of TSB being a little disappointing (I'll leave it at that to avoid spoliers) and Liara just wearing a mask instead of a full helmet illustrating that the devs haven't taken not of those of us who have pointed out how incredibly lame and stupid this is and just seems to prove how the team these days prefers "style" over substance and have made ME a little too what I would call "Modern Hollywood" in some ways.



Beyond that both DLC's generally do suffer the same issues that ME2 has by default, but I can't fault them there because they didn't add to the problem. And both did manage to make the generally dull and repetitive combat a little more interesting and varied too, particularly LotSB.



I guess what I'm saying is, as good as these recent DLC's are, if ME3 was overall on average of the same quality while it would be better than ME2 it would still suffer a lot of issues that would annoy me and I wouldn't like.

[bzurn]

I'm glad there are some good vibes going on about the recent DLC, I just wish the main game could have received this much polish. Only one or two parts in the main game had this much emotion as this one contained.



While playing LotSB during the firefight just before we got inside the ship I noticed Liara wasn't wearing any breathing mask at all! I guess doing proper combat helmets and combat armor for characters is too much modeling work for Bioware to take time to produce for the squadmates. But if Shepard is going to be forced to wear a breathing helmet then I think it would be proper for my squad to look proper too and help suspepend the feeling of being in a hostile environment.

[Chief Martini]

I'm sorry for some of the things I've said too, but also please remind that there was a different writer for LotSB then ME2, a much better one imo.



God I miss ME1...

[HBC Dresden]

Hmmmm, the Illium car chase actually helped make that hub world seem bigger and not just a small area with corridors. I think ME3 needs these type of vehicle missions, even if short, to convey the size of these worlds.

[Terror_K]

Chief Martini wrote...

I'm sorry for some of the things I've said too, but also please remind that there was a different writer for LotSB then ME2, a much better one imo.

God I miss ME1...

Who wrote LotSB? I haven't seen the credits for it yet so I'm in the dark about this.

[bjdbwea]

Chief Martini wrote...

I'm sorry for some of the things I've said too, but also please remind that there was a different writer for LotSB then ME2, a much better one imo.

Is that so? That would of course be an explanation.

Well, then I hope that either the writer(s) of LotSB will contribute a significant amount of writing to ME 3 (especially Liara's role). And / or that the other writer(s) will learn from this DLC how to write believable, emotional characters and dialogue with depth, and also learn from its (hopefully) success that this is indeed what the audience appreciates.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 14 septembre 2010 - 10:00 .

[catabuca]

Did Drew write LotSB?

I really enjoyed this DLC. I've been plenty critical of ME2. I think any and all of us reserve the right to point out things we don't like, that we don't think work, as long as it's in a polite and constructive way. We all have different tastes, different expectations, different desires, and that isn't something that should be shushed or ignored, but celebrated and talked about. I like talking with people who have different opinions to me, as long as we can both stay open minded and try to see each others' point of view.

The writing in LotSB was stellar. Shep was finally able to act human, someone with emotions, someone who wasn't a shell who occasionally got angry and stabby. My issues with ME2 were always, like the poster above, the huge disconnect from the first game. The need to make it work for new players aside, I think it was the fact that so much changed from 1 to 2. If it had just been combat, that would have been ok. If it had just been the stats, that would have been ok. If it had just been the change in tone, that would have been ok. If it had just been the Alliance versus Cerberus thing, that would have been ok. That all these things changed, leaving a game that was nigh on unrecognisable, and then breaking our only link to the past with ignoring Liara and Kaidan/Ash, well for me that was what was so jarring.

That isn't to say the changes aren't good. I enjoy ME2 combat immensely, for example (I still enjoy ME1 combat immensely too - it's possible!). But as I said, I believe a lot of the discord stemmed from how everything changed all at once and there was seemingly no link, either in terms of game design or storytelling, to what fans of ME1 loved and cherished about the ME universe.

I really hope LotSB is a signal that some of those ties will be restored. ME3 will evolve into something else again, although this time the entire gameplay mechanic won't be re-written, but merely tweaked, so that should provide some familiarity to ME2. I really hope it brings back something familiar from ME1 as well though. And that it makes it into the main ME3 game. I buy DLC if I am interested in it, but imo major plot should NEVER be in dlc. It punishes those who can't afford to buy it. DLC should be added extras that aren't essential to the overall story.