20 réponses à ce sujet

[The Potty 1]

I've never given fighters much of a go in this game, and thought it's about time I did. Specifically, I intend to use a Fighter/Thief PC, along with perhaps a Barbarian & Berzerker, probably Minsc & Korgan. I'm also considering Chloe (Kensai).
The problem is, I like the idea of playing with SCS2 installed, but am barely able to take down a fairly naff mage with 2-3 of my own arcane casters dropping their entire spellbooks. Now I'm proposing to try this with no arcane support at all?
My questions, in no particular order, are:
Should I embrace my incompetence and not install the SCS2 smarter mages? This feels wrong, but I imagine when I actually start getting my butt handed to me, I'm not gonna care. On the other hand, I'd rather cheese my party than nerf the opposition. I'm thinking item upgrade, Underrepresented items, or adding some Tactics fights with overpowered drops, like the acid kensai, the ritual, and the poison encounter. I've already decided to skip Spell50, which may sort everything out anyway.
Should I install multiclass grandmastery? Is it fair for my PC to get grandmastery as well as time trap and (possibly) multiple assasinates due to the multiclass thief bug? OK fair is the wrong word. Is it an outrageous exploit, or just mildly broken?
From a group power perspective, should I have a group of 3-4, or the full 6? I have yet to play a monk long enough to get those damn oversight HLA's, and if I'm gonna suffer through all these useless fighters, I might as well try a druid too. Or I could take 5 to ToB and then add Sarevok.

[Demivrgvs]

If you don't mind adding an Inquisitor to your party he/she can make your life immensely easier (even if you nerf their dispel to 1.5x as per SCS). Too bad vanilla's Wizard Slayer is a silly kit, Inquisitors are the most effective anti-mage tanks by far.

I don't consider Multiclass Grandmastery much worse than a Kensage in terms of munchkinness.

I really don't like OP items and thus I cannot recommend to install IU or Tactics, but that's a matter of tastes. Anyway, what's the point of trying a good challange and then install cheesy overpowered items to make it easy? I'm making really too many advertisements lately, but you may try Item Revisions if you want to have good equipment for all your party members (e.g. each weapon type should have equally good items in every stage of the game with IR).

I always prefer a full party, but from experience a party of 4 characters ends up being more effective because it lvl ups much faster, and you can focus all the most powerful items on them. It's undeniable that most items in vanilla are really weak compared to a bunch of extremely powerful elite ones, but even with IR it's kinda hard to equip 6 fighters (e.g. you may not have 6 top armors at once till very late in the game unless you build some of them to wear light/medium armors instead of heavy ones ).

Modifié par Demivrgvs, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:12 .

[ncknck]

As far as i understand it, SCS2 just gives everyone its "full" abilities. The error here is that just because some street mage is level 18, doesnt mean he should cast lvl9 spells or have a perfect defence. Same as graduating from college doesnt make people Einsteins.

 As such, there is no reason to use SCS2. And as a consequence, there is no need to use cheesy melee workarounds either. Tactics mod boss fights are more challenging anyway.

Or you could, just rest until healed after each fight and load up on wands&items. A dwarven berserker shoudlnt have any probs ignoring all the spells. Especially with Keldorn in a party.

Modifié par ncknck, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Without SCS (or a similar mod) though, enemies are often laughably stupid. Sure SCS makes mages too generally powerful (resulting in a Baldur's Gate 1 full of fighters (breakfast) and mages (arghnotagaingoddamnitijustfoughtoneofthesewhereistheendtothis!?!), but usually that's better than the alternative.

[Flamedance]

SCS-mages are sometimes slightly ridiculous in BG1, with completely mundane orc mages worth zero xp spamming stoneskin, ii and confusion like there's no tomorrow. That's not fun, it's just tedious, especially if you meet three of these groups on the same map. Due to this, a mod like DSotSC is almost unplayable with that scs component installed.

Without SCS, the AI is laughably stupid, though. Personally, i'd recommend installing the smarter mages component, but not installing the prebuffing component. It's usually not the AI, but the prebuffing that causes problems. Of course, you yourself shouldn't buff before the fights either, to keep things fair (and that includes no potions).

[Thailog]

The Potty 1 wrote...

From a group power perspective, should I have a group of 3-4, or the full 6? I have yet to play a monk long enough to get those damn oversight HLA's, and if I'm gonna suffer through all these useless fighters, I might as well try a druid too. Or I could take 5 to ToB and then add Sarevok.

In my experience, druids are very good at handling enemy mages. Their insect line of spells is a real killer. Once you hit a mage with one of those, he's as good as dead.

BTW, if you don't mind adding a ranged character, get an Archer. Arrows with elemental damage are plentiful and they go straight through stoneskin which makes them ideal for disrupting enemy spells. Archers can obtain grandmastery in bows and get a bonus to ranged damage every few levels which pretty much brings them on pair with meleers. IIRC, they get one of the lower level insect spells too. Also, when you get your hands on some arrows of dispelling try hitting a mage with one of those.

Modifié par Thailog, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:57 .

[The Potty 1]

 I'm afraid I'm banning inquisitors too, although I was seriously tempted. A couple of bards crossed my mind too.

I think I'll add Mazzy the monk, and slap Jaheira in as well. Or possibly just slap Jaheira. Any votes for Cernd instead?

I'll skip Spell50, but go for SCS2 with [Mages never cast spells instantly]. On the plus side I'll go for Multi-GM and overpowered tactics loot, although tactics doesn't help me until later in the game. I think I'll also modify the cursed sword of berzerking to be +6, dunno if that will help or hinder, but it should add some excitement. I wonder if it'll protect against imprisonment 

[jaxsbudgie]

Just slap Jaheira.

Use Item Revisions and Spell Revisions too, they're fun *thumbs up*.
Skald's are good for combat heavy groups, their song gives bonuses to AC, damage and THAC0, download Rogue Rebalancing if you plan on using any Bards.
Like someone suggested, for a Fighter heavy party you'd need a wide range of armours.
I can't remember what mod it is, but it adjusts the Wizard Slayer so they're actually a useable class.

Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:10 .

[ncknck]

Wait. Do you want to play melee or just w/o arcane magic? Because Divine magic is just as haxxx. A buffed Anomen is nothing to be ashamed of. I dont see why additional cheese is needed, with clerics and druids allowed.

[The Potty 1]

Actually I don't have this terribly clear myself, but I suppose no high level arcane or divine, so nix the druid, but rangers can cast their spells.



So my planned group is Minsc (barbarian), Korgan, Chloe, & Mazzy, and I like Thailog's Archer suggestion too. I also feel like taking Edwin as the final member, obviously with radically altered stats. Between Mazzy & Edwin I'll make a monk & archer, not sure which will be which.

[ncknck]

Well, mazzy is an archer in vanilla, while Edwin is tall as a monk.

[jaxsbudgie]

Edwin a Monk? Hahaha, he has recorded soundsets for a Thief, so do Cernd and Valygar ... just putting that out there. Also I think Jaheira would make a really good Ranger. A Paladin would be nice alongside a Ranger, so you have both low level Cleric and Druid spells covered.

Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:23 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

The Potty 1 wrote...

I've never given fighters much of a go in this game, and thought it's about time I did. Specifically, I intend to use a Fighter/Thief PC, along with perhaps a Barbarian & Berzerker, probably Minsc & Korgan. I'm also considering Chloe (Kensai).
The problem is, I like the idea of playing with SCS2 installed, but am barely able to take down a fairly naff mage with 2-3 of my own arcane casters dropping their entire spellbooks. Now I'm proposing to try this with no arcane support at all?
My questions, in no particular order, are:
Should I embrace my incompetence and not install the SCS2 smarter mages? This feels wrong, but I imagine when I actually start getting my butt handed to me, I'm not gonna care. On the other hand, I'd rather cheese my party than nerf the opposition. I'm thinking item upgrade, Underrepresented items, or adding some Tactics fights with overpowered drops, like the acid kensai, the ritual, and the poison encounter. I've already decided to skip Spell50, which may sort everything out anyway.
Should I install multiclass grandmastery? Is it fair for my PC to get grandmastery as well as time trap and (possibly) multiple assasinates due to the multiclass thief bug? OK fair is the wrong word. Is it an outrageous exploit, or just mildly broken?
From a group power perspective, should I have a group of 3-4, or the full 6? I have yet to play a monk long enough to get those damn oversight HLA's, and if I'm gonna suffer through all these useless fighters, I might as well try a druid too. Or I could take 5 to ToB and then add Sarevok.

Modifications which increase difficulty of the game should be looked upon with reason. Sure vanilla mages can be taken down easily if you have a druid or a wizard in your party. But if you don't? Is that the question you are asking? What do you want to get out of this particular experience? Getting a party of fighters butchered by SCS2 mages or Tactics mages isn't going to be a very pleasant gaming experience. Right now I am soloing a fighter in Baldur's Gate, and I get owned everytime a wizard casts magic missile(in insane). But I do this because I am a power gamer, I want to see the end result(kensai/thief). I want to experience that class with all the tomes...etc, that is my particular reward.

So perhaps you do have an end goal in sight as well, but you must understand that  fighters require alot of planning and the collection of various items in the game. They can rock seriously but they are very difficult to develop. However they reward patience and can become incredibly powerful. I doubt difficulty mods, especially those that help enemy mages actually contributes to your experience in anyway, as the end result is that you will be waiting for the wizard's protections to run out and then you would attack, I'm just saying it wouldn't be fun for me. IMO you are balanced out by the fact that you are only playing with fighter types.

I personally do not use the grandmastery mod but perhaps you may take a liking to it.  I do not know much about assassinate either, because I'm not much of a backstabber type.

P.S If I were to take a party of fighters through game, I'd try to get at all weapons that deal some kind of elemental damage so that I may interrupt enemy spellcasting.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 16 septembre 2010 - 08:15 .

[The Potty 1]

Hm fair point, although I'll take tactics mages over SCS2 ones any day of the week, a thief can solo tactics without breaking a sweat, because you get a second or so to backstab before their stoneskins go up, and once you get 'fury, even if they survive the stab, they don't outlive the stun.

SCS2 mages on the other hand get skinned and drop a pre-emptive ADHW as soon as you see them. So yes, I am hoping to get by on high hit points and outliving their spellbooks. Also, I've never been particularly good at spell disruption, but a cumulative 30 to 60 attacks per round should make this easier yes?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

In BG1, if you don't allow them to insta-cast, 2 or 3 archers should be all you need to take care of mages.

[Shadow_Leech07]

The Potty 1 wrote...

Hm fair point, although I'll take tactics mages over SCS2 ones any day of the week, a thief can solo tactics without breaking a sweat, because you get a second or so to backstab before their stoneskins go up, and once you get 'fury, even if they survive the stab, they don't outlive the stun.
SCS2 mages on the other hand get skinned and drop a pre-emptive ADHW as soon as you see them. So yes, I am hoping to get by on high hit points and outliving their spellbooks. Also, I've never been particularly good at spell disruption, but a cumulative 30 to 60 attacks per round should make this easier yes?

If you feel you can handle tactics mages, then by all means go for it.

[polytope]

I think it's difficult but possible to beat SCS mages with a group of fighters.



I've found Wizard Slayers to be highly effective with SCS, provided you have the G3 fixpack to give them casting failure on ranged attacks - sure they can't use potion buffs, but since every mage in SCS knows remove magic, potion buffs on a fighter don't last long anyway. I use WS as archers mainly with the Tuigan bow (or darts if the bow is randomized), in just 1 round (even unhasted) they can tag a mage with ~50% casting failure (no save).



With the Girdle of Inertial Barrier, Mana bow and Armour of Faith (ranger) or Valygar's armour, you can have around 90% resistance to magic damage such as horrid wiltings, and 3*skull trap sequencers... only for a single character though. If you don't use the SCS component to randomize items I'd do Windspear Hills and then rush to Spellhold: Cloak of reflection gives immunity to electricity. Ring of fire resistance + Dragon Helm + Dragon Shield + boots of the north gives immunity to fire and cold. That's the bulk of spell damage, and if you have a berzerker he'll be additionally immune to annoying status effects.

[The Potty 1]

I started this run, and so far the group seems hugely overpowered, I may have to nerf them



This is probably because I'm used to playing with SCS2 [Mages always cast spells instantly] and Spell50, now I've gone for [Mages never cast spells instantly].



Another perk is the SCS2 randomizer appears to have placed some of the best loot in Ribald's store, I just bought Kundane & Belm there. On the other hand the strength belt is gone, and Chloe has 13 strength

[The Potty 1]

Just got Edwin, and realised he fights with Minsc. Pretty sure I installed happy parties though. Killing the cowled wizard for Edwin was my first remotely challenging fight, but I just soaked up everything he threw at me, teleport field, incendiary cloud, cornugon, bone fiend, efreet, confusion, and assorted other stuff. However I'm feeling less overpowered.

[jaxsbudgie]

Try fighting a lich and see how that goes. Or the Twisted Rune if you're still feeling overpowered.

I always find those ****s in the sewers a true test of my party's skill and compotence.

[The Potty 1]

Well frankly SCS2 liches have always been too much for me without using cheese, and I haven't taken on a demi-lich for years. If anything this group has a better chance than some of the mage-heavy ones I tried.