153 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

I suggest you all adopt my position Shepard never being 100% dead. His shattered body was just in a coma but Cerberus saved him. The Revelations comic or whatever that was is junk. He is not a human reaper and there will be no "what a twist!" moment where he does some reaper stuff.

[Mox Ruuga]

It was a dumb plot device for the sake of some cheap drama.

[netfire_]

Shepard was dead, She is told this twice. How is it that I am the only one to apparently heard those lines in the game?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Who's she? I don't recall him ever being told that. Only that people heard he was dead.

[CaolIla]

I didn't call my paragon Shepard Jesus without a reason.



I hope in ME3 is a water level so Shepard can run on the water and give us the proof we need.

[Moiaussi]

Actually I think they might have been going for some sort of Ghost in the Shell allusion where Shepard becomes more and more cybernetic over the course of the trilogy, bringing into question where the line really is between 'humanity' and machine.... if there is any line at all.

That and the irony that increasing degrees of cybernetics does on some level equate to becoming more Reaper-like

[netfire_]

ReconTeam wrote...

Who's she? I don't recall him ever being told that. Only that people heard he was dead.

Shepard is female, at least my Shepard. Miranda said "youve spent the last 2 years in a coma, or worse. I asume "or worse" means dead, Jacob said "When they brought you in here you were dead, dead as dead can be".   These statement are only heard if you chose certan conversation options. If you haven't chosen a certan way then you wouldn't have heard them. Seconldy, in the opening animation Shepards heart was obviously not beating. Non beating heart = dead.

Moiaussi wrote...

Actually I think they might have been
going for some sort of Ghost in the Shell allusion where Shepard becomes
more and more cybernetic over the course of the trilogy, bringing into
question where the line really is between 'humanity' and machine.... if
there is any line at all.

That and the irony that increasing degrees of cybernetics does on some level equate to becoming more Reaper-like

Shepard Destroying a creature that is part human, and part machine while being one herself is no coincidince, I think that and giving the story a bit of a reboot for new players.

Modifié par netfire_, 17 septembre 2010 - 04:35 .

[ERJAK2]

Graz73 wrote...

I just read this other topic about Shepard's resurrection and the afterlife:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/4787199/2#4793729

It got me thinking, "What was the point of the whole death and resurrection plot?" I kept expecting that plot point to have some payoff.  Would Shepard turn out to be a clone or a robot or a duplicate?  Would the Illusive Man have some kind of secret control of Shepard?  Some sort of enlightenment?

Nope, none of that. So far, Shepard's resurrection has not had any negative consequences! 
And if there are no consequences, then why include it? They could have just started the game with "Two years later"

Here are a few of my theories about why it was included:
1) It puts Shepard into the monomythic heroic story arc, which Joseph Campbell explained.  Part of the "Hero's Journey" deals with conquering death.  Shepard can now enter that club with the likes of Hercules, Anakin, and Harry Potter...  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heroesjourney.svg
2) Bioware wanted to start the game with a BANG.
3) An excuse to let 2 years pass in game, so that the player could rediscover everything along with Shepard.
4) An excuse to update the Normady.
5) An excuse to gather a new squad. (The game would have been much quicker if it started with the ME 1 Squaddies already on the team)
6) It set the collectors up as a real threat.
7) It partially redeemed Cerberus. I mean, even if I hated an organization, if they brought me back to life I'd have to at least hear them out, right?
8) MAYBE the resurrection plot will indeed pay off in ME3?!?!

What do you think?

My belief, which means it's a crackpot theory with only limited basis in logic and will NEVER be part of the gameplay is that it's yet another indication that Shepard is a god(dess). 

The in game definition of a god is that it's a verb, something that warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to it just does. And even a dead god can dream. Dead Shepard accidentely set events in motion that ended up with Liara as the shadow broker and the station she was being rebuilt on being destroyed when she was repaired enough to function properly. Not to mention the hundred other odd coincidences in the game.

I know that that crap happened as a result of designers making important gameplay decisions but it makes it cooler to think of Shepard as being bad*** enough to warp reality.

Modifié par ERJAK2, 17 septembre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Ghurshog]

 I believe 2 and one you didn't post

The resurrection is to emphasize how powerful an organization Cerberus is and what it can actually accomplish.

Modifié par Ghurshog, 17 septembre 2010 - 07:14 .

[Terraneaux]

The death and resurrection plot serve to deprotagonize the player in between ME1 and 2.

[Vhira]

In the Illusive Man's search for the ultimate punch line, here was his real reason for resurrecting...er.. cloning Shepard.

Modifié par Vhira, 17 septembre 2010 - 10:18 .

[Annihilator27]

Slidell505 wrote...

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Graz73 wrote...


3) An excuse to let 2 years pass in game, so that the player could rediscover everything along with Shepard.
4) An excuse to update the Normady.
5) An excuse to gather a new squad. (The game would have been much quicker if it started with the ME 1 Squaddies already on the team)

These. Kind of sad really, bioware went to the extent of killing off shepard just so it would be a "Stand alone" game. I would have rathered a much more thought out beginning, one that felt more like a continuation of ME1.

My main problem with ME2 is that they went in assuming the player haddn't played ME1. I mean ME2's plot is pretty much throwaway. It could have been done without the reapers.

I hated that. "Catering" to the new people. I think there doing it again for ME3.

[Mallissin]

Jesus.



/thread>

[Sable Phoenix]

The biggest problem with the whole death and ressurection idea is that, as I and others have postulated in this thread on a similar topic, Shepard is now a synthetic being.  There is no way to recreate a functioning brain with intact memories and personality, no matter how advanced the technology and scientific knowledge becomes.  Brain death of as little as six minutes is entirely irreversible; the very rare documented cases where people have returned to life after longer than that are still unexplained and completely beyond our ability to replicate, and none of them were two years long.  After two years, Shepard is not the original Shepard.  The real Shepard is dead, completely and irreversibly.  Shepard is now a cybernetically generated synaptic pattern template overlaid on a new brain (at least we assume it's a new brain and not a quantum bluebox).  Shepard is just as much a synthetic as the geth or the Reapers, only with a meat platform instead of a metal one.  The fact that the Overlord recombinant AI could "hack" Shepard is proof enough of this.  Technically, Shepard breaks the Citadel conventions on unshackled AI development (not that Cerberus would care about that kind of thing). 

The implications of the Lazarus Project are massive, both societally and for Shepard's own psychological health (Shepard must have reasoned all this out), but we never see any indication that it's particularly worrisome to the character.  And not a single character in the entire game even gives it so much as a passing acknowledgement, not even The Illusive Man himself.  Frankly, given the huge story potential of such an event, the writers bungled it, just as they bungled the (nonexistent) motivation behind Wilson's betrayal and assault of Lazarus Station.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[--Master of All--]

I honestly can't wait to see what plot mechanic they pull out to reset Shepard's level to 1 for ME3.

[Fiery Phoenix]

--Master of All-- wrote...

I honestly can't wait to see what plot mechanic they pull out to reset Shepard's level to 1 for ME3.

Prison.

[Gibb_Garrus]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

The biggest problem with the whole death and ressurection idea is that, as I and others have postulated in this thread on a similar topic, Shepard is now a synthetic being.  There is no way to recreate a functioning brain with intact memories and personality, no matter how advanced the technology and scientific knowledge becomes.  Brain death of as little as six minutes is entirely irreversible; the very rare documented cases where people have returned to life after longer than that are still unexplained and completely beyond our ability to replicate, and none of them were two years long.  After two years, Shepard is not the original Shepard.  The real Shepard is dead, completely and irreversibly.  Shepard is now a cybernetically generated synaptic pattern template overlaid on a new brain (at least we assume it's a new brain and not a quantum bluebox).  Shepard is just as much a synthetic as the geth or the Reapers, only with a meat platform instead of a metal one.  The fact that the Overlord recombinant AI could "hack" Shepard is proof enough of this.  Technically, Shepard breaks the Citadel conventions on unshackled AI development (not that Cerberus would care about that kind of thing). 

The implications of the Lazarus Project are massive, both societally and for Shepard's own psychological health (Shepard must have reasoned all this out), but we never see any indication that it's particularly worrisome to the character.  And not a single character in the entire game even gives it so much as a passing acknowledgement, not even The Illusive Man himself.  Frankly, given the huge story potential of such an event, the writers bungled it, just as they bungled the (nonexistent) motivation behind Wilson's betrayal and assault of Lazarus Station.

Overanylisation to the max. Shepard is not dead, he's still shepard. The comparison between shepard and a geth made me lol.

This is the future, anything is possible, don't bring real world **** into a fictional universe.

[--Master of All--]

Shandepared wrote...

--Master of All-- wrote...

I honestly can't wait to see what plot mechanic they pull out to reset Shepard's level to 1 for ME3.

Prison.

I'm tempted to agree with both of you, but on what grounds would he be imprisoned? He's a SPECTRE, unless he's accused of treason (based on ???), I don't think anyone will have much of a case against him.

[lurking fear]

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Shepard is not dead, he's still shepard.

And how is that Shepard is not dead? Even Jacob tells you "dead as dead can be".

[Gibb_Garrus]

lurking fear wrote...

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Shepard is not dead, he's still shepard.

And how is that Shepard is not dead? Even Jacob tells you "dead as dead can be".

Okay okay, ummm..... Maybe because WE PLAY AS HIM THROUGH THE ENTIRETY OF ME2. I coulda sworn he was alive when he blew up that collector base. Guess not.

[Fiery Phoenix]

--Master of All-- wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

--Master of All-- wrote...

I honestly can't wait to see what plot mechanic they pull out to reset Shepard's level to 1 for ME3.

Prison.

I'm tempted to agree with both of you, but on what grounds would he be imprisoned? He's a SPECTRE, unless he's accused of treason (based on ???), I don't think anyone will have much of a case against him.

Based on the fact that Shepard has worked with Cerberus and everything she did with them. The Alliance aren't just going to let her get away with it.

[--Master of All--]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

--Master of All-- wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

--Master of All-- wrote...

I honestly can't wait to see what plot mechanic they pull out to reset Shepard's level to 1 for ME3.

Prison.

I'm tempted to agree with both of you, but on what grounds would he be imprisoned? He's a SPECTRE, unless he's accused of treason (based on ???), I don't think anyone will have much of a case against him.

Based on the fact that Shepard has worked with Cerberus and everything she did with them. The Alliance aren't just going to let her get away with it.

I don't know, if you read Admiral Hackett's dossier, it sounds like the Alliance is giving him a free pass.