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[Killjoy Cutter]

Shandepared wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...



Shes a serial killer. 

A sociopath. 

So is Samara.

What makes Samara a sociopath?

[Ashira Shepard]

There is a difference between killing and murdering.



Soldiers kill in battle/war; does that make them heartless mass murderers?



Generic psychotic slaughters a bunch of people in horrifically creative ways; killing because he must?



Samara; kills because she must.



Morinth; kills because she enjoys it.



*sigh*

[Ashira Shepard]

Shandepared wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...



Shes a serial killer. 

A sociopath. 

So is Samara.

Okay, what?

Traits of "Antisocial Personality Disorder" as its renamed to be politically correct or something like that.

[*]Glibness and Superficial Charm



[*]Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving
behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly
hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to
be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.



[*]Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."



[*]Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible
for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get
caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities.
Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.



[*]Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their
core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and
opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices
who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let
nothing stand in their way.



[*]Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it
is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged
by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would
upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their
promises.



[*]Incapacity for Love



[*]Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.



[*]Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only
contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage
of them.



[*]Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and
approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as
creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful,
all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no
concern for their impact on others.



[*]Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet
"gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends;
aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.



[*]Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or
indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame
themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.



[*]Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.



[*]Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.



[*]Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

I wonder who most of this makes people think of, or should anyway...

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 16 septembre 2010 - 12:28 .

[Himmelstor]

AshiraShepard wrote...

There is a difference between killing and murdering.

Soldiers kill in battle/war; does that make them heartless mass murderers?

Generic psychotic slaughters a bunch of people in horrifically creative ways; killing because he must?

Samara; kills because she must.

Morinth; kills because she enjoys it.

*sigh*

Incorrect. Samara kills because of blind devotion to a code. Sometimes 'she must' only because the code demands something that's heavily defended. You may find this devotion to a code romantic and noble. I find it abhorrent.
And Samara is hardly a soldier. A Justicar is more comparable to a samurai (from the mouth of the woman herself.)

[Ashira Shepard]

Shandepared wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

What makes Samara a sociopath?

She kills relentlessly without a second thought, without mercy, without guilt.

"I remember every being I have slain, they are always with me."

That doesn't sound like "without guilt."

[upsettingshorts]

AshiraShepard wrote...
"I remember every being I have slain, they are always with me."

That doesn't sound like "without guilt."

Remembering them doesn't imply guilt.  They could be pleasing memories.

She's a serial killer.  I won't get in to the psychological diagnosis or what particular human neurosis causes it, but she is. 

It's partially a physical addiction, in any case, which makes trying to diagnose her like a human problematic.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 septembre 2010 - 12:50 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Himmelstor wrote...
Incorrect. Samara kills because of blind devotion to a code. Sometimes 'she must' only because the code demands something that's heavily defended. You may find this devotion to a code romantic and noble. I find it abhorrent.
And Samara is hardly a soldier. A Justicar is more comparable to a samurai (from the mouth of the woman herself.)

Where have I ever stated that I found her devotion "romantic" or "noble" - I find it curious, people's minds make me curious.

I would personally be at odds with Samara, because I strongly do not believe in black and white morality. Yet I really like the character in spite of that, I find her interesting - its a choice of looking closer and not just making a snap judgement.

I would think it either takes a remarkably strong person to subject themselves to that kind of life, or a remarkably broken person to subject themselves to that kind of life.

Think of your life now, your friends, your family, everything you love. Now imagine a comet has just crashed into it all and utterly destroyed any shred of happiness that might have been salvaged. There's one thing that you can do, that might give purpose to your otherwise pointless existence that will otherwise be one of helpless despair over your inability to do a single thing and guilt because something you could have fixed is still a problem you could have dealt with.

I think most people would chose to deal with the problem.

[ObserverStatus]

Personally, I always pick Morinth on renegade playthroughs to save myself the trouble of killing Samara in Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par bobobo878, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:00 .

[stewie1974]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...
"I remember every being I have slain, they are always with me."

That doesn't sound like "without guilt."

Remembering them doesn't imply guilt.  They could be pleasing memories.

She's a serial killer.  I won't get in to the psychological diagnosis or what particular human neurosis causes it, but she is. 

It's partially a physical addiction, in any case, which makes trying to diagnose her like a human problematic.

does samara kill for the "fix" like her daughter does? Does she have a need to kill, like a psysical urge...or is she just following an old code that allows "eye for an eye" justice....

for instance samara is clearly capable of guilt , she dosn't want to know things about her enemy that might sway her... can't remember the exact quote but she talked about, did she want to know the person she was killing was a loving father .... no she didn't ....

Ok question time.... why didn't she want to know that? because it may affect her judgement?

that means shes capable of being swayed or feeling guilty.

In my opinion anyhow... she has the "strict justicar code" to ensure that she isn't allowed to become emotionally involved......  it dosn't means that she as a character is incapable of feeling guilt or empathy.... she just has the code handy to guide her through a detached path.

Modifié par stewie1974, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:00 .

[upsettingshorts]

Oops, I misread. I thought I was talking about Morinth not Samara.



Morinth is who I was calling a serial killer.



Among her own people, Samara's code is unquestioned, so I respect it. Judging Asari ethical principles by human standards is racist.

[stewie1974]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Oops, I misread. I thought I was talking about Morinth not Samara.

Morinth is who I was calling a serial killer.

Among her own people, Samara's code is unquestioned, so I respect it. Judging Asari ethical principles by human standards is racist.

I think it would be "Speciest".....  

[ObserverStatus]

stewie1974 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Oops, I misread. I thought I was talking about Morinth not Samara.
Morinth is who I was calling a serial killer.
Among her own people, Samara's code is unquestioned, so I respect it. Judging Asari ethical principles by human standards is racist.

I think it would be "Speciest".....  

*facedesk*
Where were you when that Turian was arguing with the security at the citadel?
quote: "You humans are all racist!"

[upsettingshorts]

stewie1974 wrote...
I think it would be "Speciest".....  

I'm paraphrasing Legion, who says more or less the same thing if you select a certain option during his loyalty mission.  Further, there's the Turian example above.

[stewie1974]

bobobo878 wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Oops, I misread. I thought I was talking about Morinth not Samara.
Morinth is who I was calling a serial killer.
Among her own people, Samara's code is unquestioned, so I respect it. Judging Asari ethical principles by human standards is racist.

I think it would be "Speciest".....  

*facedesk*
Where were you when that Turian was arguing with the security at the citadel?
quote: "You humans are all racist!"

I was there, but it's still not racisim ..... if you dislike dogs is it racist?

You could say "the dog race"  , "the cat race" , "the human race" .... it's still wrong as they are not "races" they are species.

try not to get your eytomology from pop culture refrences....  and I think the "you humans are racist" might have been a bit of a dileberate "joke"....

Caucasian, Asian etc are "races"... Taurian isn't a race ...... it's a species...there may well be different taurian "races" though

Modifié par stewie1974, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:10 .