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[ObserverStatus]

Shandepared wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Again, the Code dictates that they deserve it.

Yeah, you're a Justicar fan, I get it. I bet you also read comic books. That's fine.

A guess if I invent a religion where I get to kill people who fulfill certian criteria that you'll love me too.

I doubt it. No offense, but yorkj86 doesn't seem like a big fan of your writing.

[BHRamsay]

Shandepared wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...



Shes a serial killer. 

A sociopath. 

So is Samara.

Actually no Samara isn't a Sociopath...a central feature of sociopathy is a compulsion to lie and decieve both onesself and those around you, like Morinth does. Say what you want about Samara but she dies not lie to you or to herself about what she does or why she does it.

Sociopaths also show little or no empathy or remorse --- Samara shows both if you care to chat with her enough. 

Sociopaths also show poor impulse and behaviour control --- often they will mock those who do not share their mindset or beliefs. Take a more paragon path through the seduction scene and Morinth will make fun of Shep's morality and aw shucks wonderment at the world around you. 

Samara on the otherhand, will accept Shep's views regarding her beliefs and devotion to the code. She will respond and defend her ideals but she never says that you are wrong in what you think of her or about the code.

Yes she took down the Eclipse Sisters --- brutally --- but she also implies that had they given her the name of the ship when she had asked for it they would still be alive. 

You want to call her brutal and harsh go right ahead, but that veiwpoint says more about the Shep you are playing then it does about Samara. She gives you a huge clue where she is coming from when she compares herself to a Samurai. The Bushido Code is harsh and uncomprimising for a reason, becasue its purpose was to encourage it's followers to be a symbol to the people they served and ruled over.

In otherwords to be a paragon ---nuff said.

[ObserverStatus]

stewie1974 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Oops, I misread. I thought I was talking about Morinth not Samara.
Morinth is who I was calling a serial killer.
Among her own people, Samara's code is unquestioned, so I respect it. Judging Asari ethical principles by human standards is racist.

I think it would be "Speciest".....  

*facedesk*
Where were you when that Turian was arguing with the security at the citadel?
quote: "You humans are all racist!"

I was there, but it's still not racisim ..... if you dislike dogs is it racist?
You could say "the dog race"  , "the cat race" , "the human race" .... it's still wrong as they are not "races" they are species.
try not to get your eytomology from pop culture refrences....  and I think the "you humans are racist" might have been a bit of a dileberate "joke"....
Caucasian, Asian etc are "races"... Taurian isn't a race ...... it's a species...there may well be different taurian "races" though

Dogs and cats are critters.

Modifié par bobobo878, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:12 .

[upsettingshorts]

"Races" aren't races. They're ethnicities. You won't see an academic paper refer to races anymore.



I used a common term, you got what I meant, stop arguing over semantics - the thread topic is Morinth not "how do we refer to prejudice when it comes to aliens" thread.

[Himmelstor]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...
Incorrect. Samara kills because of blind devotion to a code. Sometimes 'she must' only because the code demands something that's heavily defended. You may find this devotion to a code romantic and noble. I find it abhorrent.
And Samara is hardly a soldier. A Justicar is more comparable to a samurai (from the mouth of the woman herself.)

Where have I ever stated that I found her devotion "romantic" or "noble" - I find it curious, people's minds make me curious.
I would personally be at odds with Samara, because I strongly do not believe in black and white morality. Yet I really like the character in spite of that, I find her interesting - its a choice of looking closer and not just making a snap judgement.
I would think it either takes a remarkably strong person to subject themselves to that kind of life, or a remarkably broken person to subject themselves to that kind of life.
Think of your life now, your friends, your family, everything you love. Now imagine a comet has just crashed into it all and utterly destroyed any shred of happiness that might have been salvaged. There's one thing that you can do, that might give purpose to your otherwise pointless existence that will otherwise be one of helpless despair over your inability to do a single thing and guilt because something you could have fixed is still a problem you could have dealt with.
I think most people would chose to deal with the problem.

The same place you divined that I was simple enough to equate killing with evil (a word a do not and will not use.)
We both argue points we do not necessarily agree with, and, while it has been fun...I'm a little tired of having to skim over the simpler arguments to get to the meat of the matter.
Good day, and good argument.

[Ashira Shepard]

Shandepared wrote...

This post sounds like a subjective opinion to me.

Sorry for liking to believe the world isn't the murderous hellhole it really is.

Like I said, its a choice of looking closer and not making a snap judgement.

Btw, the exact quoting to the other line was, "if I must kill a man because he has done wrong, do I really wish to know he is a devoted father?"

She feels emotions just like anyone else, just because a person doesn't show them like you'd expect most to, doesn't mean she doesn't feel.

If she did indeed know more about those she has to kill, it would probably drive her insane.

Whilst Morinth gets to know her victims before ultimately snuffing out their life without a care in the world.

[Xeranx]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...



Shes a serial killer. 

A sociopath. 

So is Samara.

Samara operates with a code of conduct that while harsh is still recognized by the Asari, and does stop slavers, and others from hurting people.
Morinth is a 400 year old serial killer who gets off on mind raping innocent people for power and the sick thrill of it.

There is no comparison outside of them both doing what they feel they must.

I'm sorry but "harsh" doesn't begin to explain what those Asari children may feel.  

Morinth: One woman.  Many victims over the course of 400 years.  Possibly left parents without children or children without parents.  All this because of a biological condition.

Samara: One woman.  Many victims over the course of 400 years.  Has indeed left parents without children (considering her MO) and has left hundreds (playing it safe though I believe it's more because it was a village and not a hamlet) of children parentless.  This from her own mouth.  She does this because she follows a flawed code that doesn't allow for gray though she saw a gray area and used Shepard to facilitate moving Morinth to a secluded location to prevent having to kill those in the VIP section.  She does this willfully and you still think Morinth is worse?

That village was left untouched save a few people Morinth chose out of the masses.  Samara is a whirlwind of death that only knows combat/non-combatant and whatever side you fall on depends on what choices you, the potential victim/survivor, make.  I call that a hostage situation.

[Radahldo]

I think assessing Morinths tolerance for others ideas and morality, when the only context she has opportunity to display such qualities, is a [i]club[i] with of air of exclusivity about it, is a bit reaching and unfair.

[stewie1974]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

This post sounds like a subjective opinion to me.

Sorry for liking to believe the world isn't the murderous hellhole it really is.

Like I said, its a choice of looking closer and not making a snap judgement.

Btw, the exact quoting to the other line was, "if I must kill a man because he has done wrong, do I really wish to know he is a devoted father?"

She feels emotions just like anyone else, just because a person doesn't show them like you'd expect most to, doesn't mean she doesn't feel.

If she did indeed know more about those she has to kill, it would probably drive her insane.

Whilst Morinth gets to know her victims before ultimately snuffing out their life without a care in the world.

that's the one.

As for why the shadow broker has no intell on morinth...

The dossiers you are reading are hand picked by ... liaria...

Liaria probablly dosn't know that morinth is masquarading as samara.....
Also morinth makes comments in conversation that she only speaks in her own voice when she is sure there is no survallience around.. meaning she's probablly checked that little room quite thouroughly and indeed her own appartment.

So in short,  no SB dossier, because nobody but renegade shepard /dead samara and morinth knows the truth... though kasumi does somehow..... probablly because she cloaks around the ship or something????

[Ashira Shepard]

Shandepared wrote...

This entire post says a lot about paragons and why I despise them.

And this entire post explains my view of the world as a horrible, wretched place. *sigh*

[ObserverStatus]

stewie1974 wrote...
So in short,  no SB dossier, because nobody but renegade shepard /dead samara and morinth knows the truth... though kasumi does somehow..... probablly because she cloaks around the ship or something????

Kasumi knows? where'd you hear this?

[Xeranx]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Samara; kills because she must.

Morinth; kills because she enjoys it.

*sigh*

Again, I'll bring up the Asari village which I know people will get tired of in short order.  She just had to leave all those Asari children orphaned correct?  She had to kill ... every ... single ... adult ... because she absolutely had to? I find that twisted.  And you sweep it under the rug by adding Morinth kills because she enjoys it.  

In her apartment every item you touch that has anything to do with being competitive or a combatant has her say (paraphrasing) she likes it when someone thinks they have the drop on you and they really don't. 

Also I don't think we know whether or not Samara does take joy in the acts she performs.  I watched a documentary of people who fought in Iraq recently in which they stated that when undergoing training they use words like "kill" when striking.  They made reference to the fact that you won't ever see it in a video documenting soldier training.  They also said that after you've trained for a while you get to the point where you can't wait to use what you've learned.  That Jarhead snipe point scene comes to mind.  Let's not try and make Samara to be all rosy.  I said it in another thread that Samara comes across as a dirty cop who will do anything and use anyone to correct a wrong they feel exists or to get revenge.  She is not pious by any means.

[DOYOURLABS]

Xeranx wrote...



I'm sorry but "harsh" doesn't begin to explain what those Asari children may feel.  

Morinth: One woman.  Many victims over the course of 400 years.  Possibly left parents without children or children without parents.  All this because of a biological condition.

Samara: One woman.  Many victims over the course of 400 years.  Has indeed left parents without children (considering her MO) and has left hundreds (playing it safe though I believe it's more because it was a village and not a hamlet) of children parentless.  This from her own mouth.  She does this because she follows a flawed code that doesn't allow for gray though she saw a gray area and used Shepard to facilitate moving Morinth to a secluded location to prevent having to kill those in the VIP section.  She does this willfully and you still think Morinth is worse?

That village was left untouched save a few people Morinth chose out of the masses.  Samara is a whirlwind of death that only knows combat/non-combatant and whatever side you fall on depends on what choices you, the potential victim/survivor, make.  I call that a hostage situation.

For one, it's Morinth's fault the people of the village died, not Samara. Samara was simply defending herself and trying to reach Morinth, so she couldn't do this again. The villages were probably armed or using biotics. The children would have died if not for Samara. 

Second, just because Morinth has a condition, doesn't justify hunting and killing innocents. She forced them against their will to sleep with her, and that killed them. She's a monster. When she ran away, she could have hid herself. Instead, she murdered people.

Third, Samara killed people only if her code allowed it. The code is pretty much asari law. Modern law allows more of a grey area, but murders still get punished. The people she stopped were criminals. The reason she had Shepard move Morinth out of the VIP section wasn't to avoid killing everyone. That would be blatantly against the code. She did this to make sure Morinth wouldn't escape to kill again. 

In short, learn more about a character's motivations and check your facts before you condemn them as a murderer.

Modifié par DOYOURLABS, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Shandepared wrote...

Judging by this sentence at least you know the truth, so I won't fault you for living in a fantasy.

True, but you know what? I keep trying.

I'm nice to people, I like being nice to people, I like helping people, I like hearing people laugh, I like seeing people smile, knowing they're happy.

Whilst I know its not a nice world, I. Keep. Trying.

Tiny things, helping an old lady at the shop because she's got her trolly stuck, giving a council worker a piece of candy while he watches the parade apart from the main crowd, giving money to someone on the street with only a few pence pieces in their cap.

I like to think that people can be nice despite the harsh lives many live.

[DOYOURLABS]

Shandepared wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...


Samara can stop.   Morinth cannot, due to her condition.

This apparently makes Morinth worse than her mother. Gotcha.

She doesn't stop because of her condition, it's because she's addicted to murdering people. Does this make her worse than Samara. Yes it does. 

[stewie1974]

Shandepared wrote...

So then why didn't Liara pull Samara's dossier for me?

Ah trying to explain that one is probablly not going to work from an IC perspective.... .I guess bw fudged it ... they should give you samara's dossier if you have morinth or not....providing you have someone who looks like the asari justicar....


@bobobo878

and yeah kasumi told me to be careful around morinth, she thinks she will kill me or something... can't remember the exact quote , but I was like "how the hell do you know and why can't I ask you that with a nice dialouge wheel......"

Modifié par stewie1974, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:39 .