179 réponses à ce sujet

[Perfect-Kenshin]

 I notice lots of people make "proposals" and criticisms which they hope the Devs will listen to and implement in DA2. However, based on what I can gather from the Devs, they have a "yeah, thanks, but no thanks---move along now, little one" attitude when it comes to suggestions. Which makes some sense as its not like people who aren't involved in the industry have any idea about what they are talking about, "technical-capability/finance" wise. That and there are a plethora of suggestions made on this forum and it would be impractical to even seriously consider them all. Finally, the game is nearing completion (with only a couple of months until its release).

That said, the way I see it, if the majority of the fans (or people on this website) press for some feature or game enhancing ability/tool, the Devs ought to put aside their biases and attempt to implement it into the game (provide its FEASIBLE). Thus, I propose (ironic, no?) a poll with which game registered users can vote on and that the ideas of the majority be taken into consideration (for instance, some people here have expressed interest in there being a section of DA2 where Hawke and the love interest can go on a date. A mod can link users to a poll which only accepts registered gamers votes and users can vote accordingly YES or NO). I'm not saying that DEVS being obligated to implement whatever feature voted into the game, but that it is at least heavily considered over coffee.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:34 .

[Wishpig]

For the most part I'm sure they just laugh at the ridiculousness of their lose-lose positions on these forums.

[Collider]

Most things are probably set in stone, no matter what the forums say.
That said, the devs are affected by what is said. In that the listen and they have developed the game with what the fans have said in mind before.
But this is not a democracy. They are not bound to the opinion of the forum (thank god).

Modifié par Collider, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:34 .

[Nyaore]

Just to play devil's advocate, who is to say that the forum goers here represent the opinions of the majority? Who is to say that what 'we', I say 'we' relatively because there is no clear consensus on this forum regardless of the issue, want is what every other gamer who loved DA:O but didn't feel inclined to sign up to the forums wants as well? More over, who is to say that what 'we' want can even be safely implemented in consideration to the game's current budget and stylistic feel?

Also relatively speaking, while some of the ideas that are brought forth on this forum are rather interesting that does not necessarily make them all game worthy.

Modifié par Nyaore, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[Wishpig]

Nyaore wrote...

Just to play devil's advocate, who is to say that the forum goers here represent the opinions of the majority? Who is to say that what 'we', I say 'we' relatively because there is no clear consensus on this forum regardless of the issue, want is what every other gamer who didn't feel inclined to sign up wants as well? More over, who is to say that what 'we' want can even be safely implemented in consideration to the game's current budget and stylistic feel?

Also relatively speaking, while some of the ideas that are brought forth on this forum are rather interesting that does not necessarily make them all game worthy.

They don't represent the majority at all. People who think otherwise are, well, kidding themselves. We're composed of mainly hardcore gamers, and within the hardcore gamers, a very small minority. So we're a minority of a minority pretty much. We're just very vocal.

[Fatex3]

I doubt there is any effect at all when concerning development of the game. What does effect the devs is when people post bugs / glitches on the forums. Everyone on these forums is a minority when it comes to Dragon Age player base.

[Nyaore]

Wishpig wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

Just to play devil's advocate, who is to say that the forum goers here represent the opinions of the majority? Who is to say that what 'we', I say 'we' relatively because there is no clear consensus on this forum regardless of the issue, want is what every other gamer who didn't feel inclined to sign up wants as well? More over, who is to say that what 'we' want can even be safely implemented in consideration to the game's current budget and stylistic feel?

Also relatively speaking, while some of the ideas that are brought forth on this forum are rather interesting that does not necessarily make them all game worthy.

They don't represent the majority at all. People who think otherwise are, well, kidding themselves. We're composed of mainly hardcore gamers, and within the hardcore gamers, a very small minority. So we're a minority of a minority pretty much. We're just very vocal.

I'm well aware of that.

[upsettingshorts]

Reading the forums probably gives them gas.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Collider]

Nyaore wrote...

Just to play devil's advocate, who is to say that the forum goers here represent the opinions of the majority? Who is to say that what 'we', I say 'we' relatively because there is no clear consensus on this forum regardless of the issue, want is what every other gamer who loved DA:O but didn't feel inclined to sign up to the forums wants as well? More over, who is to say that what 'we' want can even be safely implemented in consideration to the game's current budget and stylistic feel?

Also relatively speaking, while some of the ideas that are brought forth on this forum are rather interesting that does not necessarily make them all game worthy.

We can't know for certain that the forums represents the majority of opinion. Because most players haven't gone on the forums to discuss anything at length.

However, the forums *is* one of the best ways to tell or get an idea of what the fans may want. Almost the only way.

[Gavinthelocust]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Reading the forums probably gives them gas.

Happens to everybody, the key is to read them when no one is in a ten mile radius.

But on a serious note I hope so, the community has been a big part of bioware games and this should be no different.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Nyaore wrote...Just to play devil's advocate, who is to say that the forum goers here represent the opinions of the majority?

Not me. I say those who actually registered for the games (in this case, Dragon Age Origins) serve as a population sample. And I'm rather certain that if word got out that the actual gamers had some control over what features got implemented into said game, more users would join this site, hence better reflecting upon the majority.

Who is to say that what 'we', I say 'we' relatively because there is no clear consensus on this forum regardless of the issue

There is no clear consensus because there is no poll. No one has empircally sought to identify the clear consensus of this forum.

want is what every other gamer who didn't feel inclined to sign up wants as well?

Again, like any attempt at gathering statistics, not every single person whom the statistics are to represent is necessary. A sufficient sample is all that is necessary and I'm inferring that if word got out about the ability to have influence on what goes into the game, more people would come to this forum, making the statistics even more accurate.

More over, who is to say that what 'we' want can even be safely implemented in consideration to the game's current budget and stylistic feel?

The Devs of course. I specifically stated that they only use the poll for serious consideration and what can be feasibly placed into the game. I'm fully aware of limitations on Bioware's part.

Also relatively speaking, while some of the ideas that are brought forth on this forum are rather interesting that does not necessarily make them all game worthy.

It depends on our precise paradigm for game worthy. Based on my argument, game worthy = what the majority wants, while at the same time feasible.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Wishpig]

Blasto the jelly wrote...

If The Devs Listened to us They Would Make Some preety weird games

Their ultimate game would take place in a small room and just be Varric having sex with Tali as Wrex watches while Alistair strips in the corner, crying.

[John Epler]

We definitely read the forums, and it would be disingenuous of me to say 'no, nothing ever affects the game development process in any way'.



The problem, of course, and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk - until you're actually in the development process, it's nearly impossible to know exactly what kind of time and effort something requires. Heck, I've been with BioWare for almost three years and I still have very little idea what kind of time commitment many of the other disciplines require. There are about fifteen people on this project who probably -do- understand it fully, and there's a reason they tend to be fairly senior



Do we discourage people from posting feedback or suggestions? Of course not! Some great ideas come out of these forums, and while we don't implement all of them - that doesn't mean we don't discuss them over coffee or during meetings. But in the end, the ideas have to fit both A) into our timeline and into our design goals, and unless you're one of those fifteen people I mentioned earlier, it's really difficult to find ideas that fit both categories.

[SoleSong]

I say... even a blind hen can find gold

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Take a look at my post in the wishlist for Mass Effect 3 thread. Then take a look at Lair of the Shadow Broker. Lair is proof positive they read my post.  ;)

As for Dragon Age, I don't know, but I'm sure they are impacted by the threads, even if only as a disembodied voice for brainstorming.




EDIT:  added faces.  

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 15 septembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[HopHazzard]

Wishpig wrote...

Blasto the jelly wrote...

If The Devs Listened to us They Would Make Some preety weird games

Their ultimate game would take place in a small room and just be Varric having sex with Tali as Wrex watches while Alistair strips in the corner, crying.

And all the people who wanted exactly that would still complain bitterly.

[Wishpig]

JohnEpler wrote...

We definitely read the forums, and it would be disingenuous of me to say 'no, nothing ever affects the game development process in any way'.

The problem, of course, and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk - until you're actually in the development process, it's nearly impossible to know exactly what kind of time and effort something requires. Heck, I've been with BioWare for almost three years and I still have very little idea what kind of time commitment many of the other disciplines require. There are about fifteen people on this project who probably -do- understand it fully, and there's a reason they tend to be fairly senior

Do we discourage people from posting feedback or suggestions? Of course not! Some great ideas come out of these forums, and while we don't implement all of them - that doesn't mean we don't discuss them over coffee or during meetings. But in the end, the ideas have to fit both A) into our timeline and into our design goals, and unless you're one of those fifteen people I mentioned earlier, it's really difficult to find ideas that fit both categories.

You've just inspired a new generation of proposal threads... what... have... you... done...

Modifié par Wishpig, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[Gavinthelocust]

SoleSong wrote...

I say... even a blind hen can find gold

But in a crowd of thousands it is hard to find the gold in all the garbage.

[Stanley Woo]

i don't think the OP's proposal is at all feasible. not only is game development not a collaborative effort between creators and players, by the time the players learn about a feature, developers have already invested thousands of man-hours into its creation, implementation, testing, and planning. To see any of that work suddenly shelved in favour of a complete re-do based on an arbitrary poll voted on by a bunch of random anonymous internetters is kinda crazy. Sorry.

[AtreiyaN7]

In my opinion, when you try to give everyone what they think they want, the odds are good that you will end up with a complete mess that ultimately satisfies no one. I'm sure that the devs consider the good suggestions that come up, but seriously, I'm glad that they do NOT listen to ideas such as the idea of adding co-op gameplay to DA that keeps getting floated around here.

Am I against co-op? No, it's great in the right kind of game, but it's not really appropriate for DA. When one takes into account the nature of the game and the design of it, it just would not function well in a co-op mode because the game is focused on story and characters, and is not a Diabloesque hack & slash. So in cases like this, I'm glad that the devs are sticking with their vision. However, they have at listened to us on the issue of mage hats apparently - see, they DO care!

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 15 septembre 2010 - 12:00 .

[David Gaider]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
As for Dragon Age, I don't know, but I'm sure they are impacted by the threads, even if only as a disembodied voice for brainstorming.

As I've said many time before on this forum, the role you can take in our development process is the same as with anyone who might get a chance to speak with one of us-- if you can be persuasive, then you might actually change our mind on something.

Being "persuasive", however, does not mean being demanding or rude or entitled. That's about as persuasive as it would be if you were talking to someone that way in real life.

It also has nothing to do with a majority anything. As many people here have pointed out, the majority of people on these forums... are just the majority on these forums. And quite frankly, I've yet to see the majority of people on these forums agree on almost anything. Even if that were the case, the people on these forums represent only a portion of our fanbase, the ones who are committed enough to actually come to a gaming forum and speak about the topic. While that's valuable feedback, it'd be pretty silly of us to base our development on it.

So you can persuade us or persuade each other, or simply sound off if you're not breaking the forum's rules. That's what the forum's here for. Anyone who sees it as being part of a committee to determine what Dragon Age should or should not be, however, is sorely mistaken... and when we say "yeah, thanks but no thanks" we're not doing it to be rude. We have a big enough committee to make the game here at BioWare, thank you very much. We rarely agree on everything, either.

[Stanley Woo]

Blasto the jelly wrote...
C'mon tell us What Forum idea did You put ingame? preety please

Generally, it doesn't work that way. just because some of our developers are inspired by a forum idea/suggestion, doesn't mean they're going to immediately put it into the game. the idea might take a few iterations before a version of it appears in a future product, like Alistair's personality being inspired by a Buffy the Vampire Slayer character. You wouldn't know it until it was pointed out to you, but the inspiration was there all the same. only very rarely will you see something like the name of Thedas being directly inspired by the forum's use of "THE Dragon Age Setting" to describe our world before it was named.

Most gamers think the latter is the way things work, rather than the former. at its heart, videogame development is NOT a democracy or a collaboration between players and developers.

[Dynamomark]

Any example of a great idea you guys saw in these forums and then implemented it?