179 réponses à ce sujet

[Inzhuna]

Aww, didn't know about Thedas! That's cool!

[Homebound]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Blasto the jelly wrote...
-snip-

Alistair's personality being inspired by a Buffy the Vampire Slayer character.

wait what?

[Cigne]

I believe both ME2 and DAO have the option to send gameplay feedback; so it's a good bet that Bioware knows how many times (for example) a city elf was chosen, which talents were most popular, etc.

That probably has as much impact on dev decisions as forum wishlists. So those who really want to play as other than human in DA3 better get busy with some Dalish or Dwarven playthroughs.

Modifié par Cigne, 15 septembre 2010 - 01:03 .

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

So you can persuade us or persuade each other

But my cunning isn't very high, will we have an [Intimidation] check instead?

[upsettingshorts]

I took the Ladies Man perk, does that mean I can convince Christina Norman to change a gameplay feature or story element without a Speech check?

/oops, wrong game

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 septembre 2010 - 01:16 .

[Fishy]

Cigne wrote...

I believe both ME2 and DAO have the option to send gameplay feedback; so it's a good bet that Bioware knows how many times (for example) a city elf was chosen, which talents were most popular, etc.

That probably has as much impact on dev decisions as forum wishlists. So those who really want to play as other than human in DA3 better get busy with some Dalish or Dwarven playthroughs.

Good.So they know i have no life
/Run away and hide in the bushes



Edit

Well i'm breathing somehow i must be living.

Modifié par Suprez30, 15 septembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[David Gaider]

Cigne wrote...
I believe both ME2 and DAO have the option to send gameplay feedback; so it's a good bet that Bioware knows how many times (for example) a city elf was chosen, which talents were most popular, etc.

That probably has as much impact on dev decisions as forum wishlists. So those who really want to play as other than human in DA3 better get busy with some Dalish or Dwarven playthroughs.

That's very true. We recognize that not everyone chooses to send telemetry data, but those who do make for a huge sampling base-- a much larger one than, say, we have present on these forums. Sometimes the data presented there challenge the notions commonly considered fact here on the forums, and sometimes it challenges our own notions.

Sometimes we also have to consider why the data is what it is. Did the vast majority of players play as a Human Noble simply because it's the default on character creation? Or because they actually prefer playing a human and a warrior/rogue? Did less than 5% play a dwarf simply because dwarves weren't cool? Because they aren't pretty? How many people actually took Sten into their party, or did the romances (and who were they)? How did people play differently when re-playing the game as opposed to playing it the first time?

So yeah, that's good data-- but like the forums you're still only getting part of the picture.

[rhautanen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So you can persuade us or persuade each other

But my cunning isn't very high, will we have an [Intimidation] check instead?

[darkiddd]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Blasto the jelly wrote...
C'mon tell us What Forum idea did You put ingame? preety please

Generally, it doesn't work that way. just because some of our developers are inspired by a forum idea/suggestion, doesn't mean they're going to immediately put it into the game. the idea might take a few iterations before a version of it appears in a future product, like Alistair's personality being inspired by a Buffy the Vampire Slayer character. You wouldn't know it until it was pointed out to you, but the inspiration was there all the same. only very rarely will you see something like the name of Thedas being directly inspired by the forum's use of "THE Dragon Age Setting" to describe our world before it was named.

Most gamers think the latter is the way things work, rather than the former. at its heart, videogame development is NOT a democracy or a collaboration between players and developers.

Was Alistair character inspired by Xander? 

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
Sometimes we also have to consider why the data is what it is. Did the vast majority of players play as a Human Noble simply because it's the default on character creation? Or because they actually prefer playing a human and a warrior/rogue? Did less than 5% play a dwarf simply because dwarves weren't cool? Because they aren't pretty? How many people actually took Sten into their party, or did the romances (and who were they)? How did people play differently when re-playing the game as opposed to playing it the first time?

So yeah, that's good data-- but like the forums you're still only getting part of the picture.

I'm always curious about how important that telemetry data is in making changes going forward- have any changes been made to DA2 based in large part on that data?  But as with all data, it would need to be interpreted properly lest you guys come to the wrong conclusions.

I think thats the tricky thing like you said- if I've got multiple playthroughs, I might do some choices totally different than my "canon" Warden but is the act of me making those choices going to add up to BioWare maybe cutting out a class or companion from a future game? Or if I romance Morrigan everytime and always do her quests, provided alot of other people did that, does that show that people like Morrigan? 

I guess, does looking at the choices people make in their playthroughs like doing the Dark RItual versus Ultimate Sacrifice or maybe how many people kill Flemeth- do those story based choices and seeing the cumulative data in any way influence how you might approach acknowledging or continuing those stories down the road?

Modifié par Brockololly, 15 septembre 2010 - 01:46 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

David Gaider wrote...

Cigne wrote...
I believe both ME2 and DAO have the option to send gameplay feedback; so it's a good bet that Bioware knows how many times (for example) a city elf was chosen, which talents were most popular, etc.

That probably has as much impact on dev decisions as forum wishlists. So those who really want to play as other than human in DA3 better get busy with some Dalish or Dwarven playthroughs.

That's very true. We recognize that not everyone chooses to send telemetry data, but those who do make for a huge sampling base-- a much larger one than, say, we have present on these forums. Sometimes the data presented there challenge the notions commonly considered fact here on the forums, and sometimes it challenges our own notions.

Sometimes we also have to consider why the data is what it is. Did the vast majority of players play as a Human Noble simply because it's the default on character creation? Or because they actually prefer playing a human and a warrior/rogue? Did less than 5% play a dwarf simply because dwarves weren't cool? Because they aren't pretty? How many people actually took Sten into their party, or did the romances (and who were they)? How did people play differently when re-playing the game as opposed to playing it the first time?

So yeah, that's good data-- but like the forums you're still only getting part of the picture.

So you guys combine your own gut intuition, occassionally in the face of all presented evidence, make a couple compromises here and there, add in a few hard decisions and then throw it all together into an expression of what you think would be awesome.... 


That sounds suspiciously like art, sir.  :whistle:

[Bryy_Miller]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Take a look at my post in the wishlist for Mass Effect 3 thread. Then take a look at Lair of the Shadow Broker. Lair is proof positive they read my post.

That is dangerous talk.

[upsettingshorts]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Take a look at my post in the wishlist for Mass Effect 3 thread. Then take a look at Lair of the Shadow Broker. Lair is proof positive they read my post..

Correlation does not equal causation.

Granted, I couldn't find your post so maybe you said something as specific as "I want the Shadow Broker to be an <alien name redacted as this isn't an ME2 spoiler forum>" or "I want to have a car chase sequence on Ilium."  So maybe I'm wrong.

[Knight Templar_]

This is really intresting. I wasn't aware you used us for design and marketing.

David Gaider wrote...

Did less than 5% play a dwarf simply because dwarves weren't cool? Because they aren't pretty?

No, not because of that.

[Bryy_Miller]

Anyone who has not seen it yet (yes, it is ME2, but it is directly related to this thread):
http://xbox360.ign.c...3105831289.html

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 15 septembre 2010 - 02:02 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Take a look at my post in the wishlist for Mass Effect 3 thread. Then take a look at Lair of the Shadow Broker. Lair is proof positive they read my post..

Correlation does not equal causation.

Granted, I couldn't find your post so maybe you said something as specific as "I want the Shadow Broker to be an " or "I want to have a car chase sequence on Ilium."  So maybe I'm wrong.

Good lord, people, I was kidding.  :D:D  I should have put little faces in there, because I'm playfully snarky and tone doesn't have it's own TCP layer.  I am totally in love with Lair, becuase everything in it was something I loved about Mass Effect.  It was fan-freaking-tastic and I'm tempted to load it up now.

Witch Hunt was on the exact same kick ass trajectory...  but we know its story and I'm 100% confident that once the patch is out I'll be making "WOOT" posts for it too.

[Bryy_Miller]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Take a look at my post in the wishlist for Mass Effect 3 thread. Then take a look at Lair of the Shadow Broker. Lair is proof positive they read my post..

Correlation does not equal causation.

Granted, I couldn't find your post so maybe you said something as specific as "I want the Shadow Broker to be an " or "I want to have a car chase sequence on Ilium."  So maybe I'm wrong.

Good lord, people, I was kidding.  :D:D

The internet, it has owned us all.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
I think thats the tricky thing like you said- if I've got multiple playthroughs, I might do some choices totally different than my "canon" Warden but is the act of me making those choices going to add up to BioWare maybe cutting out a class or companion from a future game? Or if I romance Morrigan everytime and always do her quests, provided alot of other people did that, does that show that people like Morrigan?

We can actually tell the difference between telemetry from someone who is playing the game for the first time versus someone who is replaying the game. It lets us break down the data a bit further into people who never finished the game (the majority), people who played the game just once and "committed" players who go through it multiple times.

I guess, does looking at the choices people make in their playthroughs like doing the Dark RItual versus Ultimate Sacrifice or maybe how many people kill Flemeth- do those story based choices and seeing the cumulative data in any way influence how you might approach acknowledging or continuing those stories down the road?

A bit. Like someone above said, we need to judge that data according to our own instinct. At its best it simply challenges some of our assumptions-- you can't argue with hard data, after all, even if you also can't let it dictate what you do entirely. We can never be 100% certain why some data is the way it is, after all. But it can certainly tell you whether some types of content even got used at all, what different kinds of players tend to do, which classes or abilities got used, etc. This is considerably better data than the anecdotal evidence we usually get, even if it comes without context and can only tell us so much.

Modifié par David Gaider, 15 septembre 2010 - 02:10 .

[zahra]

I DEMAND THAT BIOWARE MAKE THE BROMA BROTHERS /ANTIVAN CIRCUS A GAME FEATURE <------ example of how to make the devs ignore you and happens all too often on this forum.



I think polls would be a rather disingenuous format, and seems a wee bit arrogant. Sure, I enjoy ranting (or giving suggestions, whatever you may call it) like everyone else, but this is put forward in a manner of "consumer feedback" rather than "here, this is how you should do your job." I would be mightily pissed off if people came over to my workplace and assumed that they knew better despite having mere laymen experience.





Still would like to see that circus act though. [If dwarves are involved, pants are not optional. If possible they should be sewn into their pants for fear of drunken spontaneous pants-dropping.]

[Ortaya Alevli]

I'd laugh my head off if we got nug bombs in DA2. And I'd love it, too.

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...
Did the vast majority of players play as a Human Noble simply because it's the default on character creation? Or because they actually prefer playing a human and a warrior/rogue? Did less than 5% play a dwarf simply because dwarves weren't cool?

Are those made-up examples, or were the majority of players really so (trying to think of an neutral a term as possible), uhm, "generic vanilla" as to play the Human Noble?

And dwarf plays were really less than 5%?

Both of those stats make me incredibly sad if true.

Modifié par MerinTB, 15 septembre 2010 - 02:17 .

[Merci357]

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
I think thats the tricky thing like you said- if I've got multiple playthroughs, I might do some choices totally different than my "canon" Warden but is the act of me making those choices going to add up to BioWare maybe cutting out a class or companion from a future game? Or if I romance Morrigan everytime and always do her quests, provided alot of other people did that, does that show that people like Morrigan?

We can actually tell the difference between telemetry from someone who is playing the game for the first time versus someone who is replaying the game. It lets us break down the data a bit further into people who never finished the game (the majority), people who played the game just once and "committed" players who go through it multiple times.

I'm curious - is it possible to show us some of these numbers? No specific details, of course, just similar to some of the numbers given out for ME2 a few days ago. And how do you judge these numbers, on a case to case basis? Just one example - if (numbers just examples) only 10% picked a certain romance, or picked a certain companion as a almost permanent party member. what is a significant enough number, so you say your work and efford was placed well in this case? Or, if only 5% played a dwarf, is that so low that you feel it was kind of wasted?

[Leonia]

Without these forums, they wouldn't have the tears for their coffee.