Rieverre wrote...
It's a tradeoff. On one hand, getting feedback lets you evaluate responses to some of the concepts and maybe tweak those one way or another. The flip-side of this is that tweaking too much may negatively impact the creative vision, resulting in a product that's all over the place and feels a bit unfocused. The trick is finding the golden center.
;);)
You shouldn't have said that. If you encourage him too much, he'll put the batman suit on and start visiting random forumites, and then it'll be too much hassle to put him back into his special writers cage.Lucy_Glitter wrote...
David Gaider wrote...
Sleep?
I'm the goddamned Batman.
Sigh.
There he goes again with the Batman thing.
lord berwick wrote...
You shouldn't have said that. If you encourage him too much, he'll put the batman suit on and start visiting random forumites, and then it'll be too much hassle to put him back into his special writers cage.
Gisle Aune wrote...
It seems that once a company grows bigger, they stop caring about thsoe who actually are going to buy and play their game.
lord berwick wrote...
You shouldn't have said that. If you encourage him too much, he'll put the batman suit on and start visiting random forumites, and then it'll be too much hassle to put him back into his special writers cage.
Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:55 .
I've finally understood what was their inspiration for qunari mages. Gaider = arvaarad, and other writers - saarebas. Explains a lot....Lucy_Glitter wrote...
lord berwick wrote...
You shouldn't have said that. If you encourage him too much, he'll put the batman suit on and start visiting random forumites, and then it'll be too much hassle to put him back into his special writers cage.
You'd think the doctors would remember to lock his cage after they feed him more anguished forumites. Sheesh.
Guest_PureMethodActor_*
David Gaider wrote...
Cigne wrote...
I believe both ME2 and DAO have the option to send gameplay feedback; so it's a good bet that Bioware knows how many times (for example) a city elf was chosen, which talents were most popular, etc.
That probably has as much impact on dev decisions as forum wishlists. So those who really want to play as other than human in DA3 better get busy with some Dalish or Dwarven playthroughs.
That's very true. We recognize that not everyone chooses to send telemetry data, but those who do make for a huge sampling base-- a much larger one than, say, we have present on these forums. Sometimes the data presented there challenge the notions commonly considered fact here on the forums, and sometimes it challenges our own notions.
Sometimes we also have to consider why the data is what it is. Did the vast majority of players play as a Human Noble simply because it's the default on character creation? Or because they actually prefer playing a human and a warrior/rogue? Did less than 5% play a dwarf simply because dwarves weren't cool? Because they aren't pretty? How many people actually took Sten into their party, or did the romances (and who were they)? How did people play differently when re-playing the game as opposed to playing it the first time?
So yeah, that's good data-- but like the forums you're still only getting part of the picture.
Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 15 septembre 2010 - 08:23 .
FieryPhoenix7 wrote...
I have read a fair amount of the replies in here, but I have one thing to say:
Every single one of the changes made in ME2 is something we asked for back on the old forums. When I was playing ME2 the first time through, I would think "My God, this is exactly what we wanted." or "Wow! I remember people complaining about X thing; it's finally gone/fixed!" Not that I like everything that's been changed in ME2 (mainly dislike elevator-to-loading-screen switch and lack of exploration).
Also, let's not forget, Overlord and LOTSB are something we asked for as well. Overlord provided the return of exploration, while LOTSB provided... basically everything.
I realize that BioWare may not be listening the way one would expect them to be, but the fact remains, they value their fans' opinions and feedback more than any other developer out there, as evidenced by games like ME2. And we love them for it.
Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:00 .
Don't do what exactly? I wasn't asking for anything; just putting my own observation into words.Bryy_Miller wrote...
Please don't do this. There have been countless dev posts explaining that they don't make entire games based on what the fans want. Game Development is not this mythic "thing", and thinking that fans somehow have this much power over game design leads to self-entitlement and, eventually, resentment towards the very people you put on the pedestal in the first place.
Merci357 wrote...
David Gaider wrote...
We can actually tell the difference between telemetry from someone who is playing the game for the first time versus someone who is replaying the game. It lets us break down the data a bit further into people who never finished the game (the majority), people who played the game just once and "committed" players who go through it multiple times.
I'm curious - is it possible to show us some of these numbers? No specific details, of course, just similar to some of the numbers given out for ME2 a few days ago. And how do you judge these numbers, on a case to case basis? Just one example - if (numbers just examples) only 10% picked a certain romance, or picked a certain companion as a almost permanent party member. what is a significant enough number, so you say your work and efford was placed well in this case? Or, if only 5% played a dwarf, is that so low that you feel it was kind of wasted?
David Gaider wrote...
We can actually tell the difference between telemetry from someone who is playing the game for the first time versus someone who is replaying the game. It lets us break down the data a bit further into people who never finished the game (the majority), people who played the game just once and "committed" players who go through it multiple times.
Ironic thing is that Bioware is much more likely to listen to the "hipster" on the couch than to the community on this forum. When making the decision whether to buy the game, most people are going to read the hyped hipster's review and not these forums.Rubbish Hero wrote...
Game critics mostly big stupid heads no real gamer pro. Casual hipster fresh uni stupid haircut sit on couch xboxs drink tofu saves enviroments thinks. Hype machine very big, no proper criticisms. Require must. Jaded vigal must be. Pc game community always picks apart flaws easily, smarter me thinks.
Bioware listens to anyone with a good idea and presents it nicely.Dynamomark wrote...
Ironic thing is that Bioware is much more likely to listen to the "hipster" on the couch than to the community on this forum. When making the decision whether to buy the game, most people are going to read the hyped hipster's review and not these forums.Rubbish Hero wrote...
Game critics mostly big stupid heads no real gamer pro. Casual hipster fresh uni stupid haircut sit on couch xboxs drink tofu saves enviroments thinks. Hype machine very big, no proper criticisms. Require must. Jaded vigal must be. Pc game community always picks apart flaws easily, smarter me thinks.
Maybe, but when it is between "a bunch of random anonymous internetters" (as Stanley Woo put it) and the media, the Bioware is going to choose to impress the media:Arrtis wrote...
Bioware listens to anyone with a good idea and presents it nicely.Dynamomark wrote...
Ironic thing is that Bioware is much more likely to listen to the "hipster" on the couch than to the community on this forum. When making the decision whether to buy the game, most people are going to read the hyped hipster's review and not these forums.Rubbish Hero wrote...
Game critics mostly big stupid heads no real gamer pro. Casual hipster fresh uni stupid haircut sit on couch xboxs drink tofu saves enviroments thinks. Hype machine very big, no proper criticisms. Require must. Jaded vigal must be. Pc game community always picks apart flaws easily, smarter me thinks.
Of course I could be wrong.
David Gaider wrote...
Even so, in a way the perception becomes the truth. The media plays a big role in this. If you show a game to the media and their reaction is "wow, that looks like something that's way out of date" then that's what they're going to say. If your project isn't viewed as a triple-A game, you're not going to get triple-A coverage. Ask independant game-makers how difficult it is to get media attention and get awareness out there that their game even exists.
Modifié par Dynamomark, 15 septembre 2010 - 01:12 .
David Gaider wrote...
Cigne wrote...
I believe both ME2 and DAO have the option to send gameplay feedback; so it's a good bet that Bioware knows how many times (for example) a city elf was chosen, which talents were most popular, etc.
That probably has as much impact on dev decisions as forum wishlists. So those who really want to play as other than human in DA3 better get busy with some Dalish or Dwarven playthroughs.
That's very true. We recognize that not everyone chooses to send telemetry data, but those who do make for a huge sampling base-- a much larger one than, say, we have present on these forums. Sometimes the data presented there challenge the notions commonly considered fact here on the forums, and sometimes it challenges our own notions.
Sometimes we also have to consider why the data is what it is. Did the vast majority of players play as a Human Noble simply because it's the default on character creation? Or because they actually prefer playing a human and a warrior/rogue? Did less than 5% play a dwarf simply because dwarves weren't cool? Because they aren't pretty? How many people actually took Sten into their party, or did the romances (and who were they)? How did people play differently when re-playing the game as opposed to playing it the first time?
So yeah, that's good data-- but like the forums you're still only getting part of the picture.
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