291 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMadCat]

ClaomhScathach wrote...

DLC can be absolutely wonderful. I think pricing will always be a consideration, but the concept can be fantastic. Certainly, some of my most enjoyed moments were DLC. Return to Ostagar and Stone Prisoner were awesome in my mind.

Oh it certainly could be a good thing, and sometimes it is. Problem though is because of the miniscule budgets they recieve they typically stuggle to reach any real level of quality (Especially the story focused ones) and almost never recieve post release support because the cost of manpower doesn't really warrant the cost (The fact Witch Hunt is getting a sort of patch goes to show just how screwed up it was at launch).

Honestly I'd rather BioWare put out two or three large $20-$30 DLC's that have long, fulfilling stories and a higher production quality rather then the nickle and dime kiddy crap.

But they did make a full game. If they weren't into DLC, then you
wouldn't have gotten DAO plus all of the DLC that came out wrapped into
one bundle. You'd just get DAO and that's it. And I'm sure you'd be
perfectly satisfied with your purchase.

I don't understand why
people choose to believe that anything that comes out later should have
come out with the game, or belongs with the game, and that they are
therefore entitled to it.

But the fact is that most of the
DLC was developed after the game was released. If they kept pushing back
the release date to include all the DLC, then the game would never be
released. The alternative would be just to not release any DLC so no one
knows what they're missing.

You misunderstood the point of this particular post I made. I made this in regard to the comment on how developers are going to feed their families crap. Developers/publishers are relying more and more on DLC and rapid release sequels to drive the profit, a franchise kick off is usually a wash. Tighten their belts on the development budget and they won't have to go for a rapid succession of cheap DLC in order to drive the product.

Except vanilla DAO was easily worth its purchase price. If you're saying
otherwise, then you are the first person I've heard say so. The
addition of optional content does not diminish the value of the original
anywhere but in your mind. If you were satisfied with your purchase
before you knew about any DLC, then how has that changed? Because you
have more options now? Because you can now get a pickle with your
sandwich for an extra 50 cents?

I don't believe I ever implied Origins wasn't worth the purchase price, hell I don't believe I was directly speaking about BioWare. My point was at DLC as a whole and countering Chris's notion that the only way to look at it is from a "You don't have to buy it mentality."

But in reality the practice of directly withholding content and selling it post release isn't and unknown philisophy. Mafia 2 is currently getting railed because it's been shown the acutal content for the DLC was shipped in the package and buying it simply unlocks it, it could be argued Origins did it with Warden's Keep, Fallout 3 by withholding the free roam post story knowing it's a major selling point (Mod's unlocked it shortly after the toolsets release), Civ 5 preloaders have noticed a "Mongolia" assest file, even though that particular faction isn't in the base game and coincided with the fact there is a DLC coming shortly after release which will include 2 civs, well yeah. Reality is we can argue all day and all night about the merits of it and neither of us budge from our disposition.

Personally I don't think DLC is the bane of humanity many others see it as and I've actually bought quite a bit of DLC. A lot of times though it just looks like a tool developers and pulishers use to shore up the titles profit, neglecting quality and taking advantage of people who hold a blind love to a product. I think Origins is a good example of this, pretty much all the DLC has been crap. A couple of good ones but mostly crap; buggy, short, stupid, out of place, or a hearty mix of all the above. Where was the TLC we typically see BioWare give their products, where was that high standard of quality they rambled on about with the RTO fiasco.

To each their own.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:31 .

[Schwadragon]

DA:O was a complete game. Oh, sure, they could have added stuff to it, but you can always add stuff to a game; eventually, they have to stop adding stuff, or else the game is never going to be released. The point was that nothing felt like it was missing in DA:O. All the DLC for DA:O simply added to the experience. If you were willing to pay for the addition, you could do so; if you weren't, you didn't have to. It's as simple as that.



Also, every time somebody complains about a game company trying to make money, a communist eats a kitten.

[Lord Gremlin]

Schwadragon wrote...
Also, every time somebody complains about a game company trying to make money, a communist eats a kitten.

Feline population has neared annihilation then.

[Lumikki]

I have nothing agains downloadable content, but I don't like how company use players internet connection to they own benefits.

Modifié par Lumikki, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:57 .

[Jedi31293]

Where I live, the minimum wage is $7.25/hour. For one hour on the job, you can buy two hours worth of new content per character that you play!

I"m not saying DLC is too expensive or hard to afford. I'm simply stating the fact that it's a very easy way of making more money on a game. My math simply shows how much of a rip-off DLC is worth compared to a whole game.

By the same rate, you can buy the Celestial Pegasus (the WoW mount) for roughly three hours on the job! Considering people who play WoW clock tens of hours a week, for years at a time, that's quite the reasonable investment.

A reasonable investement to you. Ok, no argument.

You hate paying $7 for "only" two hours worth of content, you say? What would you rather have been doing in your leisure? Watching a 90-minute movie for $11.50? Renting a 90-minute DvD for $9? How about watching your favorite weekly programming, which is costing you at least $30 a month, or roughly $7.50 per episode!?

Where do you rent your movies? There are many cheap (and free) venues out there for movies. I don't have cable or satelite TV, so no, I don't pay a thing for my favorite weekly shows.


 But it's not original content

What? I never said it was original. I was saying it's only 6% or what the original game offered at 1/3 the price.

 You assume the content is used once then discarded

I clearly stated at the beginning of my post that the numbers would fluncuate depending on how thoroughly one plays the game.

There are a lot of things wrong with that post. Besides stating your
conclusion with strongly misleading language, and making up wildly
inaccurate figures

I'm sorry, what? My conclusion was about as clear as any conclusion can get and my data was accurate. Most DLC is either 7, 10, or 15 dollars. Yes, cheaper DLC can be found if one waits for sales, but most DLC is within the price ranges that I calculated.

How much would the average consumer be willing to pay for the full game?

There are 6 billion people in the world. That's 6 billion different opinions how much to pay for the full game. How does this even factor into basic calculations on DLC pricing?

It's laughable when someone bursts into a forum and accuses a company of "profiteering."

Just stating the facts, not pointing any fingers. Glad you find me humurous though.

Modifié par Jedi31293, 15 septembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[Merced256]

wait civ5 is really doing that? Think i must cancel my steam preorder =/

[Taura-Tierno]

All downloadable content I've bought for Dragon Age has been worth the money. I have avoided Darkspawn Chronicles, though, since I've been told that it's NOT worth it.



While DLC could certainly feel cheat if it's done in the wrong way, it doesn't feel that way in DAO. Besides, if a DLC sucks, at least you haven't spent lots of money on it. It's much worse to have bought a good-looking game and ended up with garbage.

[Kiely]

DLC is like many things in life... It can be good or can be bad, it all depends on how it is used.



Sometimes it is a welcome and I would say relatively inexpensive addition to an enjoyable game other times it comes across as a shameless cash grab.

[Destructo-Bot]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Oh, I admit that every once in a while, I see some liver prepared in a new way, or cooked with interesting ingredients or just made to look delicious and I have occasionally tried this liver to again see if I like it.

So far, I haven't found liver that I enjoy. Again, it is up to me to keep trying new liver, or to stop and never try it again sure in my belief  that I will never find good liver. Again, no one forces me to get it. There's lots of delicious stuff to eat instead and it is totally up to me to eat it or not.

Analogy Part 2.

What if the liver resolves part of the storyline you started in the base game?

[Lord Gremlin]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

All downloadable content I've bought for Dragon Age has been worth the money. I have avoided Darkspawn Chronicles, though, since I've been told that it's NOT worth it.

I loved Darkspawn Chronicles - playing as Ogre and Shriek was well worth it.

[Pritos]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Oh, I admit that every once in a while, I see some liver prepared in a new way, or cooked with interesting ingredients or just made to look delicious and I have occasionally tried this liver to again see if I like it.

So far, I haven't found liver that I enjoy. Again, it is up to me to keep trying new liver, or to stop and never try it again sure in my belief  that I will never find good liver. Again, no one forces me to get it. There's lots of delicious stuff to eat instead and it is totally up to me to eat it or not.

Analogy Part 2.

What if the liver resolves part of the storyline you started in the base game?

Noooooooooooooooooooo!! Never break an analogy!

[Merced256]

Wouldn't it be a perfect world if restaurants started doing that though? You know, having a menu of very plain dishes that are specifically made around you ordering all those extras that would actually make it a whole meal. I think that would be awesome personally, and i'm apparently backed up by several game developers. We should start a club.

Modifié par Merced256, 15 septembre 2010 - 08:42 .

[Schwadragon]

Merced256 wrote...

Wouldn't it be a perfect world if restaurants started doing that though? You know, having a menu of very plain dishes that are specifically made around you ordering all those extras that would actually make it a whole meal. I think that would be awesome personally, and i'm apparently backed up by several game developers. We should start a club.

You're assuming that core DA:O is a very plain meal; a lot of people would dispute that, to put it mildly.

Modifié par Schwadragon, 15 septembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[taine]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Oh, I admit that every once in a while, I see some liver prepared in a new way, or cooked with interesting ingredients or just made to look delicious and I have occasionally tried this liver to again see if I like it.

So far, I haven't found liver that I enjoy. Again, it is up to me to keep trying new liver, or to stop and never try it again sure in my belief  that I will never find good liver. Again, no one forces me to get it. There's lots of delicious stuff to eat instead and it is totally up to me to eat it or not.

Analogy Part 2.

Chris, although this is a funny/clever argument, there is a reason you learn in Philosophy101 (aka Logic) that argument from analogy is bad -- that is, while two things or situations may be similar, they are not the same. 

I believe what you are essentially trying to say is that if people don't like it, they shouldn't buy it. That's fine. The problem is if they don't like the concept, but want the content, and also feel a bit gouged by the relatively high price based on the amount of content. I understand that this is the direction video games seem to be going for one reason or another, and I personally look at it as my "Bioware Tax" for all the hours of entertainment you've given me. However, the argument that we are not being "Forced" to get it, just as you are not being forced to eat liver breaks down at one essential point -- we want more content for a great game, you don't want liver. 

I personally don't mind DLC so much, but I can understand people who do. 

[Merced256]

Schwadragon wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Wouldn't it be a perfect world if restaurants started doing that though? You know, having a menu of very plain dishes that are specifically made around you ordering all those extras that would actually make it a whole meal. I think that would be awesome personally, and i'm apparently backed up by several game developers. We should start a club.

You're assuming that core DA:O is a very plain meal; a lot of people would dispute thay, to put it mildly.

No, you're assuming i'm speaking about DA:O or any game in particular. Did your mother never tell about what making ASSumptions makes you look like?:innocent:

What i'm speaking to is that a lot of developers are moving in to the DLC market. The more "Mainstream" or accepeted the practice becomes, the more developers will abuse it. Afterall back in the day a game used to ship with relatively few bugs. Now when a game is released there is generally a patch waiting for it because developers have accepted it as common practice.

Modifié par Merced256, 15 septembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[TheMadCat]

Merced256 wrote...

wait civ5 is really doing that? Think i must cancel my steam preorder =/

Eh, it's all speculation at the moment I wouldn't start jumping guns there. There's a leftover file in the speech folder called mogolia.mp3, a misspelled Mongolia. The theory running around is they had the Mongolia civ in the game, developed, tested, etc, but took it out to use as one of the civs, seeing as it's always been one of the more popular ones, that will be in the DLC containing 2 civs coming out after the release.

It's all a bunch of speculation with nothing really concrete. But given what happened with Mafia 2 a lot of people see 2K again leaving out already developed content on the release and withholding it as DLC.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:04 .

[upsettingshorts]

Speculation. Lots of stuff gets taken out of games at different stages of development.

Like Jowan in DA:O - wasnt he going to be a full party member at some point? No "Make Jowan a full party member DLC!" was released.

I imagine some stuff is withheld to be DLC for one reason or another. And some stuff is dropped just because... it's dropped.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:14 .

[TheMadCat]

Didn't I say it was speculation like, twice?

[upsettingshorts]

Wasn't criticizing, just adding to the general discussion.

Nothing to see here

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:14 .

[thegreateski]

I dislike DLC.

[Aradace]

While you're not the ONLY person who feels this way OP, you are definately among a minority.

[Danjaru]

DLC's in general? nah. DLC's from the Dragon age team? HELL YES, continuesly promising great DLC's and whatnot but we end up with halfassed snippets of gameplay with some semi interesting story thrown in there for good measure. (almost raged at how bad Witch Hunt was, probably the worst in the lot).

Although I've enjoyed almost all DLC's coming from the Mass Effect team.

Modifié par Danjaru, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:22 .

[Selvec_Darkon]

Please be aware that MS points cost more in certain countries. DLC in one country may be cheaper then DLC in another country for consoles and PC.

[PSUHammer]

Schwadragon wrote...
Also, every time somebody complains about a game company trying to make money, a communist eats a kitten.

Perfect quote to end the thread on. 

[upsettingshorts]

Heh, one of my best friends is a communist - even convinced me to read Das Kapital - and he would never eat a kitten.

Maybe a bourgeois capitalist, though.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:41 .