91 réponses à ce sujet

[Ortaya Alevli]

I understand Carroll (sp?) being willing to spend some time alone with "the dark-haired temptress" (who wouldn't?) but disobeying orders just for the sake of a few cookies? (If Sten's in the party; the dialogue was hilarious, especially Sten's part.) He must have been trained with Alistair or something.

[David Gaider]

Templars do not take vows of chastity.

Chantry priests are considered "married" to the Maker-- though it's not an actual marriage, just a spiritual one-- and thus are indeed celibate.

For templars, the situation is not quite the same. Their duties require them to be dedicated to their duties-- they're going to live in a Circle of Magi (which does not have room for spouses and families) or a chantry, or otherwise be pre-occupied. Marriage is impractical, and the Chantry thus discourages such marriages as having dependants introduces complications that templars can do without (as well as a potential means of leverage).

That said, the Chantry does occasionally give permission for templars to marry, provided the spouse has their own means of support. This is often the case when the spouse owns land or a title. Even so, considering the spouse wouldn't be able to see the templar often, it's not going to happen frequently. Before anyone asks, the Chantry also discourages templars from marrying each other even more so-- that's considered fraternization within the ranks (the templars are run as a military order, remember, and possess the same discipline).

Mages within the Circle are permitted to marry, but it's impractical with outsiders and they also must get permission from the Chantry (so it might be considered a reward for good behavior). Even so, the culture within the typical Circle of Magi tends to make mages unwilling to marry. The policy on fraternization will depend on the individual Circle-- some forbid it, while others do not, though in either case it still occurs. Considering mages live outside normal culture, they also consider themselves free of cultural conventions (especially those who were raised in a Circle from a young age) and thus tend to be quite liberal in their views.

Whew! Okay-- verbose answer of the day. Time for coffee.

[Leonia]

David Gaider wrote...

Templars do not take vows of chastity.

Chantry priests are considered "married" to the Maker-- though it's not an actual marriage, just a spiritual one-- and thus are indeed celibate.

For templars, the situation is not quite the same. Their duties require them to be dedicated to their duties-- they're going to live in a Circle of Magi (which does not have room for spouses and families) or a chantry, or otherwise be pre-occupied. Marriage is impractical, and the Chantry thus discourages such marriages as having dependants introduces complications that templars can do without (as well as a potential means of leverage).

That said, the Chantry does occasionally give permission for templars to marry, provided the spouse has their own means of support. This is often the case when the spouse owns land or a title. Even so, considering the spouse wouldn't be able to see the templar often, it's not going to happen frequently. Before anyone asks, the Chantry also discourages templars from marrying each other even more so-- that's considered fraternization within the ranks (the templars are run as a military order, remember, and possess the same discipline).

Mages within the Circle are permitted to marry, but it's impractical with outsiders and they also must get permission from the Chantry (so it might be considered a reward for good behavior). Even so, the culture within the typical Circle of Magi tends to make mages unwilling to marry. The policy on fraternization will depend on the individual Circle-- some forbid it, while others do not, though in either case it still occurs. Considering mages live outside normal culture, they also consider themselves free of cultural conventions (especially those who were raised in a Circle from a young age) and thus tend to be quite liberal in their views.

Whew! Okay-- verbose answer of the day. Time for coffee.

Intriguing.

I wonder though, with the mages, wouldn't that sort of make things awkward for the other mages in the tower? What happens if they have a child (I assume the Chantry still takes it away from the couple)? And obviously mages wouldn't be marrying templars in the Circle (oh the controversy that would cause!).. right?

Any who, thanks for that huge chunk of info, definitely answers several questions that we've been wondering about.

Modifié par leonia42, 16 septembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[David Gaider]

leonia42 wrote...
I wonder though, with the mages, wouldn't that sort of make things awkward for the other mages in the tower?

Considering the sexual attitudes of most mages, I imagine your average Circle of Magi is like High School with all sorts of social politics, petty bickering, betrayals and a First Enchanter who constantly rubs her temples at all the things the mages get up to. After all, since they're generally locked up in there, what else do they have to do?

What happens if they have a child (I assume the Chantry still takes it away from the couple)?

Yes, married or not the child of a mage is taken away by the Chantry.
 

And obviously mages wouldn't be marrying templars in the Circle (oh the controversy that would cause!).. right?

That would probably be considered compromising for the templar, so I don't imagine permission would be granted. Fraternization between templars and mages would also be forbidden, just as fraternization between templars is-- for the same reason.

[Leonia]

So, Anders' comment about the design of mage robes allowing for ease of access was.. not entirely a joke. Good to know!

Modifié par leonia42, 16 septembre 2010 - 03:09 .

[Risax]

leonia42 wrote...

So, Anders' comment about the design of mage robes allowing for ease of access was.. not entirely a joke. Good to know!

I thought he was just messing with Oghren...

[ErichHartmann]

A simple solution for male mages is turn them into eunuchs. Forcing individuals to be celibate is very unnatural.

[LobselVith8]

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, married or not the child of a mage is taken away by the Chantry.

Would the same happen if the mage was also a Grey Warden, such as the Warden-Commander of DA:O and Awakenings?

[David Gaider]

LobselVith8 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, married or not the child of a mage is taken away by the Chantry.

Would the same happen if the mage was also a Grey Warden, such as the Warden-Commander of DA:O and Awakenings?

A mage who is not part of the Circle is not subject to the will of the Chantry. So, no.

[HopHazzard]

David Gaider
Yes, married or not the child of a mage is taken away by the Chantry.

I've always wondered, what's the chantry's justification for this policy? And what do they do with the children?

ErichHartmann wrote...

A simple solution for male mages is turn them into eunuchs. Forcing individuals to be celibate is very unnatural.

So, enforced celibacy is unnatural, but cutting off someone's junk isn't?

[ErichHartmann]

HopHazzard wrote...

So, enforced celibacy is unnatural, but cutting off someone's junk isn't?

I should clarify that. Since Circle mages are supposed to be celibate, castration would be a "good" solution to preventing children between mages under their control.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 16 septembre 2010 - 03:50 .

[HopHazzard]

ErichHartmann wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

So, enforced celibacy is unnatural, but cutting off someone's junk isn't?

I should clarify that. Since Circle mages are supposed to be celibate, castration would be a "good" solution to preventing children between mages under their control.

It would certainly prevent unwanted pregnancy, but you didn't address my point. Surgically removing a man's reproductive organ is no less an unnatural act, than prohibiting its use.

Modifié par HopHazzard, 16 septembre 2010 - 09:02 .

[AlanC9]

Is "unnatural" really a meaningful term?

[RogueWarrior626]

Wynn also makes a comment about her having affairs or one nighters whatever. Wynn of all characters.EEEEEWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

[Ortaya Alevli]

RogueWarrior626 wrote...

Wynn also makes a comment about her having affairs or one nighters whatever. Wynn of all characters.EEEEEWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

Aw, but I'm sure Wynne was quite the looker...some thirty years ago.

[HopHazzard]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is "unnatural" really a meaningful term?

It has meaning in the implied value judgement of the original comment. Enforced celibacy is bad because it is "unnatural" (contrary to nature) therefore castration is a preferable alternative, which presupposes that castration is not in itself "unnatural" or at least not as "unnatural" as that was the criteria upon which the value judgement was made.

[Beerfish]

Hmmm, I am wondering about a watering down of the species due to genetics over the years in this land.



Templars who I would assume must be strong and able minded. Their work discourages marriage. The Chantry has a certain amount of celibacy. The Wardens who essentially try and recruit the best fighters in the land have their own problems in passing on their genes.



Over a long period of time is the genetic stock not going to suffer for the whole land? The genetically superior in many cases seem to be getting weeded out from passing on their genes.

[Wulfram]

Am I being stupid in being surprised by the implication that there are female templars?

[HopHazzard]

Wulfram wrote...

Am I being stupid in being surprised by the implication that there are female templars?

I take it you haven't played Awakening then.

[Leonia]

Wulfram wrote...

Am I being stupid in being surprised by the implication that there are female templars?

There are at least 2 female templars in Awakening.

[Wulfram]

HopHazzard wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Am I being stupid in being surprised by the implication that there are female templars?

I take it you haven't played Awakening then.

Yep
edit:thanks

Modifié par Wulfram, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:02 .

[Addai]

David Gaider wrote...

Mages within the Circle are permitted to marry, but it's impractical with outsiders and they also must get permission from the Chantry (so it might be considered a reward for good behavior). Even so, the culture within the typical Circle of Magi tends to make mages unwilling to marry. The policy on fraternization will depend on the individual Circle-- some forbid it, while others do not, though in either case it still occurs. Considering mages live outside normal culture, they also consider themselves free of cultural conventions (especially those who were raised in a Circle from a young age) and thus tend to be quite liberal in their views.

Whew! Okay-- verbose answer of the day. Time for coffee.

I'm surprised at this because, even though raised outside normal society, they seem to live very much within and under the thumb of Chantry society.  I recall from The Calling that there were lots of Chantry priests walking around in the Circle- Duncan's observation, I believe.  So I had pictured them on the repressed side, also because of the fact that their fraternizations are under such close scrutiny.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

I find it amusing that marriage is a reward for good behavior for the mages. I mean, it's obvious how sad the plight is for mages in their uber-controlled life, but haha.



I wonder how they deal with adolescent apprentices? That combination of power at their fingertips with raging hormones and sexual awareness....well militaries traditionally turn to prostitutes to let that tension out; what does the Chantry do?

[Creature 1]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

I find it amusing that marriage is a reward for good behavior for the mages. I mean, it's obvious how sad the plight is for mages in their uber-controlled life, but haha.

I wonder how they deal with adolescent apprentices? That combination of power at their fingertips with raging hormones and sexual awareness....well militaries traditionally turn to prostitutes to let that tension out; what does the Chantry do?

Coed dorms and a strict "do not investigate after lights out" policy. 

[AtreiyaN7]

ErichHartmann wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

So, enforced celibacy is unnatural, but cutting off someone's junk isn't?

I should clarify that. Since Circle mages are supposed to be celibate, castration would be a "good" solution to preventing children between mages under their control.

Yowch, I rather doubt the male mages involved would consider it a "good" solution. I think they'd be all in favor of celibacy if given a choice. After watching documentaries about the dynastic period in China, I'm 99% sure that no male would willingly submit themselves to castration based on the description of the, ahem, procedure (including being stuck with having to use a catheter  ).

I would think that with that kind of threat looming over them, it would probably encourage male mages to run off and become apostates.