291 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

Peridian wrote...

Also, if your toaster or car is just that, I don't consider them to have rights. They're just things.
But what would you (this time I'm actually looking at you jbblue05) say if said car was in fact "KITT" from the Knight Rider series, to use your analogy of domestic machines. Does "KITT" have rights? Does it deserve to have rights due to it's intelligence/sentience/sapiens whatever?

And a more personal question (forgive me if I offend you with this). Let's say you have a mother you love dearly and who loves you just as much. And what if she were to die, and then be reconstructed (revived if you prefer) perfectly, but with mechanical parts, instead of organic ones. She'd look the same, smell the same, act the same and care the same amount about you as your mother did before she died. Would you think "You're not my mother, your nothing more than a machine, a bucket of bolts!", or would you think that what matters most is that she's (psychologically) the exact same as she alway was.

No wait, an even better example (I'm letting the original question remain, as I'd appreciate your (or anyone elses) response on both); what if your mother would be transmuted into a machine? Be the same person but with the parts different. Same rules apply.

the Ship who sang -  part of the Brain and Brawn series by Ann McCaffrey.   Rather controversial. The Brain & Brawn Ship series takes place in the distant future, when parents of children who are born with severe physical handicaps but highly developed minds are given the option of allowing them to become "shell people"; encapsulated as children in a titanium life-support shell and specially trained for tasks that a "normal" human would be unable to do. These children, after coming of age, are employed in various manners (in the books, mostly as interstellar spacecraft brainships or as the "brains" of cities) to work off the debt of their creation and training. They are all partnered with "Scouts" or "Brawns", humans specially trained to act as a companion or helper. The title derives from the fact that they are the mobile half of the partnership; their inability to go where "soft-shells" can is occasionally annoying to shell people, but not something they would exchange for the added abilities they are granted."  Eventually someone comes up with a "body" they can use.

Sorry, I don't actually see the relationship between the Quarian/Geth problem. I believe the Geth have rights because they are self aware simple as that. 

finding a color you can read.

Modifié par mopotter, 16 septembre 2010 - 04:02 .

[kregano]

mopotter wrote...
Hindsight is usually 20/20 and from what I've been reading, a lot of us understand why the Quarians did what they did, but what is irritating is that some of them haven't gotten past those events and they are stagnating.  Unfortunately the Quarian are like every other species (including us) and some of them will always want to return to their past instead of looking towards the future.  

I'm rooting for the Zaal'Koris vas Qwib Qwib team.  

The problem the Quarians have is that pretty much no one will let them get past those events, especially not the Council, who probably did the most to exacerbate the problem. They've been shunned for 300 years because they were basically railroaded into doing something about the Geth out of fear of Council intervention, then the Council kicked them out of the galactic community after they lost all their worlds and billions of lives, and now everyone hates them. I would be a bitter too if someone kept rubbing bad stuff my ancestors did in my face and treating me like **** for it.

[jbblue05]

Peridian wrote...

Also, if your toaster or car is just that, I don't consider them to have rights. They're just things.
But what would you (this time I'm actually looking at you jbblue05) say if said car was in fact "KITT" from the Knight Rider series, to use your analogy of domestic machines. Does "KITT" have rights? Does it deserve to have rights due to it's intelligence/sentience/sapiens whatever?

Never heard of "KITT"  Machines don't have rights you can pretty up machines all you want and call them people but they are still just machines

And a more personal question (forgive me if I offend you with this). Let's say you have a mother you love dearly and who loves you just as much. And what if she were to die, and then be reconstructed (revived if you prefer) perfectly, but with mechanical parts, instead of organic ones. She'd look the same, smell the same, act the same and care the same amount about you as your mother did before she died. Would you think "You're not my mother, your nothing more than a machine, a bucket of bolts!", or would you think that what matters most is that she's (psychologically) the exact same as she alway was.

No wait, an even better example (I'm letting the original question remain, as I'd appreciate your (or anyone elses) response on both); what if your mother would be transmuted into a machine? Be the same person but with the parts different. Same rules apply.

Is it like the Lazarus project like a 90% organic/10%syntheic  or 10% organic 90%syntheic.

Either way if my mom is dead and scientists tried to necromance her body with syntheic material I would be highly crossed with them.  The dead are meant to be dead.  I would consider any attempt to recreate my mom as a clone and not the real thing. 

My own personal answer on both questions would be:
1= It would be different and I honestly don't know how I'd take it, but I'd probably just be glad I got my mom back.

2= It wouldn't really matter as I still consider her my mom, eventhoug she's no longer organic. Should I stop thinking her as a person who has rights because of this?

1. You really have no problem that your mom is a zombie?
2. My mom would think she is unnatural and blame the doctors for desecrating her body.  She would most likely want to die

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbblue05 wrote...

Machines don't have rights you can pretty up machines all you want and call them people but they are still just machines...


...The dead are meant to be dead.  ...

What is your reasoning behind these positions? 

Or are you treating them as given fact?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Shandepared wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Star Trek isn't quite on the level of Plato.

If you raise Star Trek then I raise Star Wars, and Star Wars is worth a lot more money. Therefore I win.

Hey now, if you're going to steal my quote word for word at least give me credit.

I wlll interpret this as you conceding the argument.

Then you'd be wrong.  I was trying to get the quote tags straightened out.  Go back and read the edited post.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Why are there so many robot sympathizers here? All of you guys are going on the robot reservation I'm afraid. And we won't honor those bogus treaties.

[Whatever42]

ReconTeam wrote...

Why are there so many robot sympathizers here? All of you guys are going on the robot reservation I'm afraid. And we won't honor those bogus treaties.

You kidding? The robots have left the resevation, wiped out the cavalry and burned down all the cities. We're just siding with the winners. The genocidal, fascist Quarians are homeless, thieving vagabonds who have cute, hippy women. If so many people didn't think they could get some action there, the Quarians would be sent packing in an instant.

[jbblue05]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

What is your reasoning behind these positions? 

Or are you treating them as given fact?

I have like 15-20 posts in this thread if you want to see some of my reasoning.

Machines are Machines correct?.

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbblue05 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

What is your reasoning behind these positions? 

Or are you treating them as given fact?

I have like 15-20 posts in this thread if you want to see some of my reasoning.

Machines are Machines correct?.

Which answers nothing of the question of whether a machine can be self-aware, intelligent, sapient, etc.


I've read your posts.  "Machines aren't alive because they're not natural organic beings" -- that's not giving your reason, it's stating your position as an axiom.

[Pacifien]

So I've warned people in this thread, deleted spam pictures in this thread, and told everyone to keep to the original subject of this thread. Some of you are being good, many of you are not. If you'd like to discuss the nature of the geth, start a new topic. If someone would like to return to the discussion of the quarians, I'm afraid you'll have to start a new topic, too.