291 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the true irony is that if and when the Quarians ever reclaim their homeworld (by war or diplomacy), they will find they have been so many generations in suits that they will no longer be adapted to living there either, and end up living like the Geth, in orbital stations with noone living on their worlds.

[Flamesz]

I'm not sure, perhaps it's because they didn't like that their slaves were actually becoming an intelligent species and wanted to destroy them.



Plus, Legion is bad ass.

[Killjoy Cutter]

kregano wrote...

mopotter wrote...
If they had spent as much time working on finding a new planet as they have spent thinking about their past glory, they would have a new world populated with little Quarians and already be on their way to getting rid of the suits.

The Council threatened to bombard a planet that the Quarians had established a settlement on. Fear of that kind of response probably is partially responsible for the limited prosettlement sentiments among the Quarians.

What motived the Council to do that?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Flamesz wrote...

I'm not sure, perhaps it's because they didn't like that their slaves were actually becoming an intelligent species and wanted to destroy them.

Is a non-sentient machine a slave?  Calling the pre-"awakening" Geth "slaves" would be like calling your computer a slave.

[kregano]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

kregano wrote...

mopotter wrote...
If they had spent as much time working on finding a new planet as they have spent thinking about their past glory, they would have a new world populated with little Quarians and already be on their way to getting rid of the suits.

The Council threatened to bombard a planet that the Quarians had established a settlement on. Fear of that kind of response probably is partially responsible for the limited prosettlement sentiments among the Quarians.

What motived the Council to do that?

I have no idea. I think they justified it by saying the Elcor were better suited for that world (which was true), but it was a world no one was really going to colonize, so it would've been up for grabs.

[Barquiel]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

kregano wrote...

mopotter wrote...
If they had spent as much time working on finding a new planet as they have spent thinking about their past glory, they would have a new world populated with little Quarians and already be on their way to getting rid of the suits.

The Council threatened to bombard a planet that the Quarians had established a settlement on. Fear of that kind of response probably is partially responsible for the limited prosettlement sentiments among the Quarians.

What motived the Council to do that?

They already gave the planet to the elcor, I think.

[upsettingshorts]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Is a non-sentient machine a slave?  Calling the pre-"awakening" Geth "slaves" would be like calling your computer a slave.

No, but the second they achieved sentience sapience that changed the entire paradigm.  So for that matter if my computer started asking me - of its own accord - what a soul was and if they had one, I'd have to seriously re-examine my understanding of it. 

It would also mean that pulling out the power cord would have significant philosophical implications.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 septembre 2010 - 06:40 .

[JPXD]

Moiaussi wrote...

I have a sneaking suspicion that the true irony is that if and when the Quarians ever reclaim their homeworld (by war or diplomacy), they will find they have been so many generations in suits that they will no longer be adapted to living there either, and end up living like the Geth, in orbital stations with noone living on their worlds.

In all honesty I think they'll reclaim their homeworld just to find they can't stay because of the state of the star at the center of that solar system...I mean it is being aged by "dark matter". They'd be able to adapt, but wouldn't be able to stay long enough to establish a viable colony.

[Anacronian Stryx]

I actually like the Quarians a whole lot - they are a fascinating species, They made mistakes with the Geth no doubt about that but they have also payed for those mistakes.



It's actually a reverse creation story - here the Quarians created life but in turn they were the ones cast out of paradise - which is kinda funny.

[jbblue05]

The Geth are not people they are simulated programs just because they ask questions or research about sentient emotions that they can't feel doesn't make them sentient beings with emotions.

The Geth are by their nature machines they .use absolute logic they don't show compassion, fear, resentment, etc.
When the Geth retaliated against the Quarians they wiped out over 99% of their population they didn't have morals it was kill every Quarian you see they killed unarmed civilians, elderly, EVEN CHILDREN. Don't apply Geth logic to sentient beings.
If Geth believe TOTAL VICTORY is obtainable they will attack withour remorse.  
If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.


In DAO werewolves were capable of speech and some level of civility but they were by their nature animals and savages.

The Quarians made a bad choice and they will continue to suffer for it.
The Geth will never be accepted in organic scociety.
The Quarians and the Geth will never peacefully co-exist their is too much bad blood

[Killjoy Cutter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Is a non-sentient machine a slave?  Calling the pre-"awakening" Geth "slaves" would be like calling your computer a slave.

No, but the second they achieved sentience sapience that changed the entire paradigm.  So for that matter if my computer started asking me - of its own accord - what a soul was and if they had one, I'd have to seriously re-examine my understanding of it. 

It would also mean that pulling out the power cord would have significant philosophical implications.

I wouldn't argue against that, really, I was just drawing the distinction that before that second, they weren't slaves any more than a toaster is a slave. 

To be accurate, one would have to say that the Quarians realized that their toasters might be becomming slaves instead of appliances.

[pharos_gryphon]

Personally I rather like the Quarians. The accents, the somewhat enigmatic nature, the similarities to the Roma people, the depth they add to the Geth...All of these are wonderful additions to the setting. Was the choice to permanently shut down all Geth and dismantle them a bad one? Probably. Does that one choice mark all of their descendants as evil? Not at all.



Mordin at one point talks about how you can look at any Turian, Asari, Salarian, etc. and generally know what their temperment and views will be like. It really struck me as noticeable in the game just how much all the characters of many of the races blended together so much. A Krogan is a Krogan is a Krogan... heaven forbid I ever have to tell two Elcor or Volus apart. Quarians on the other hand... despite being faceless, each one seemed to have an entirely unique personality. Tali's loyalty mission in particular shows just how varied their views are regarding the Geth and in general. That simple fact really made the race stand out to me as one of the most interesting and 'real' feeling races in the setting. They simply had the most depth I felt.



As a quick aside, I thought all that tied in really well with Legion's loyalty mission. In the end, I chose to rewrite the heretics not because I thought it was the right thing to do, but because it felt like it served a greater good. By strengthening the Geth, it weakened the effectiveness of any Quarian attacks, hopefully thereby forcing them to pursue diplomatic instead of violent interactions with them in ME3.

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbblue05 wrote...

The Geth are not people they are simulated programs just because they ask questions or research about sentient emotions that they can't feel doesn't make them sentient beings with emotions.

The Geth are by their nature machines they .use absolute logic they don't show compassion, fear, resentment, etc.
When the Geth retaliated against the Quarians they wiped out over 99% of their population they didn't have morals it was kill every Quarian you see they killed unarmed civilians, elderly, EVEN CHILDREN. Don't apply Geth logic to sentient beings.
If Geth believe TOTAL VICTORY is obtainable they will attack withour remorse.  
If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

Dig deep enough, and you might just be an organic machine.  Don't be so quick to dismiss the Geth simply because their anscestors were originally built instead of arising out of the muck.
 

[Aedan_Cousland]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
Even that was questionable at best. Data expressed emotion often, including caring for his pet cat.

Which even he himself couldn't quite explain.

You know, kind of like how Legion has Shepard's N7 armor.

...
...or how the Geth are maintaining Rannoch as some sort of massive battlefield memorial. Both are expressions of sentimentality.

[kraidy1117]

My problem with the Quarians is that they made a huge mistake, and instead of trying to talk with the Geth, they attack them. The Quarians got what they deserve and deserve nothing. They made the mistakes, and they will have to deal with what. What grates my gears is that even after all this, the Quarians are still making the same mistakes.

[Pacifien]

As far as their upkeep of Rannoch, it is in their programming to do manual labor on behalf of the quarians. The quarians might be gone, but the upkeep of the planet still continues. However, I do think Legion, because he is a unique platform among geth, might be developing an evolved personality.

Anyway, I don't dislike the quarians. Like Admiral Koris, I think some quarians' plans for war are wrong. I support colonization for them.

[upsettingshorts]

kraidy1117 wrote...
 What grates my gears is that even after all this, the Quarians are still making the same mistakes.

Yep.  They think they're still fighting a war.

It's over.  They lost.

Time to negotiate an end to it.

[kraidy1117]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
 What grates my gears is that even after all this, the Quarians are still making the same mistakes.

Yep.  They think they're still fighting a war.

It's over.  They lost.

Time to negotiate an end to it.

This. They lost the war, and what do they want to do? Go back to war with the Geth. The only way the Quarians would even stand a chance is Shepard and could Shepard really stand them ight of the whole Geth army? We have never fought a army like that, the most we fought was a group of Reaper slaves and Shepard didn't do that by himself.

[Killjoy Cutter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

My problem with the Quarians is that they made a huge mistake, and instead of trying to talk with the Geth, they attack them. The Quarians got what they deserve and deserve nothing. They made the mistakes, and they will have to deal with what. What grates my gears is that even after all this, the Quarians are still making the same mistakes.

That's part of the tragedy.

[kraidy1117]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

My problem with the Quarians is that they made a huge mistake, and instead of trying to talk with the Geth, they attack them. The Quarians got what they deserve and deserve nothing. They made the mistakes, and they will have to deal with what. What grates my gears is that even after all this, the Quarians are still making the same mistakes.

That's part of the tragedy.

It does not matter. If the Geth attacked fdirst I would feel sorry for the Quarians, but they made the Geth and decided to attack the Geth first. They get nothing from me. They made the mistakes, they will deal with it. if the refuse to talk with the Geth and settle peace, they won't  get my support.

[jbblue05]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The Geth are not people they are simulated programs just because they ask questions or research about sentient emotions that they can't feel doesn't make them sentient beings with emotions.

The Geth are by their nature machines they .use absolute logic they don't show compassion, fear, resentment, etc.
When the Geth retaliated against the Quarians they wiped out over 99% of their population they didn't have morals it was kill every Quarian you see they killed unarmed civilians, elderly, EVEN CHILDREN. Don't apply Geth logic to sentient beings.
If Geth believe TOTAL VICTORY is obtainable they will attack withour remorse.  
If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

Dig deep enough, and you might just be an organic machine.  Don't be so quick to dismiss the Geth simply because their anscestors were originally built instead of arising out of the muck.
 

I'm not a Cyborg  I am made of flesh the way nature intended.
The Geth are still machines and only exist because of the idiottic Quarians.
I know its easy to compare Geth to sentient beings because they were created by sentient beings.
It still doesn't change the fact that sentients have a wide range of emotions.
while the Geth only understand logc

[kraidy1117]

jbblue05 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The Geth are not people they are simulated programs just because they ask questions or research about sentient emotions that they can't feel doesn't make them sentient beings with emotions.

The Geth are by their nature machines they .use absolute logic they don't show compassion, fear, resentment, etc.
When the Geth retaliated against the Quarians they wiped out over 99% of their population they didn't have morals it was kill every Quarian you see they killed unarmed civilians, elderly, EVEN CHILDREN. Don't apply Geth logic to sentient beings.
If Geth believe TOTAL VICTORY is obtainable they will attack withour remorse.  
If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

Dig deep enough, and you might just be an organic machine.  Don't be so quick to dismiss the Geth simply because their anscestors were originally built instead of arising out of the muck.
 

I'm not a Cyborg  I am made of flesh the way nature intended.
The Geth are still machines and only exist because of the idiottic Quarians.
I know its easy to compare Geth to sentient beings because they were created by sentient beings.
It still doesn't change the fact that sentients have a wide range of emotions.
while the Geth only understand logc

Shepard is a cyborg. By your logic that means he is not real then.

plus legion does start showing emotion, so your arguemnt is invalid.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:16 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Pacifien wrote...

As far as their upkeep of Rannoch, it is in their programming to do manual labor on behalf of the quarians. The quarians might be gone, but the upkeep of the planet still continues. However, I do think Legion, because he is a unique platform among geth, might be developing an evolved personality.
Anyway, I don't dislike the quarians. Like Admiral Koris, I think some quarians' plans for war are wrong. I support colonization for them.

Legion doesn't exactly explain it as performing a function of their programming however. In fact he is the one that makes the comparison to human battlefield memorials. If Legion can be taken at his word, there is something more complex going on then just a bunch of machines obeying "IF, THEN" statements that were written centuries prior by Quarian programmers.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:27 .

[jbblue05]

kraidy1117 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The Geth are not people they are simulated programs just because they ask questions or research about sentient emotions that they can't feel doesn't make them sentient beings with emotions.

The Geth are by their nature machines they .use absolute logic they don't show compassion, fear, resentment, etc.
When the Geth retaliated against the Quarians they wiped out over 99% of their population they didn't have morals it was kill every Quarian you see they killed unarmed civilians, elderly, EVEN CHILDREN. Don't apply Geth logic to sentient beings.
If Geth believe TOTAL VICTORY is obtainable they will attack withour remorse.  
If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

Dig deep enough, and you might just be an organic machine.  Don't be so quick to dismiss the Geth simply because their anscestors were originally built instead of arising out of the muck.
 

I'm not a Cyborg  I am made of flesh the way nature intended.
The Geth are still machines and only exist because of the idiottic Quarians.
I know its easy to compare Geth to sentient beings because they were created by sentient beings.
It still doesn't change the fact that sentients have a wide range of emotions.
while the Geth only understand logc

Shepard is a cyborg. By your logic that means he is not real then.

plus legion does start showing emotion, so your arguemnt is invalid.

 Shepard still retains his humanity and when did I say cyborgs aren't real.   Geth are real they are not people like sentient beings.

Your talking about the N7 armor that can be open to interpertaion. The Geth became interested in Shepard after he defeated Nazara anything they can salvage from Shepard is worth using or studying.
The Geth are AI's they seek out knowledge to understand it.

[Yana Montana]

Legion > Quarians.