291 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

jbblue05 wrote...
Geth are real they are not people like sentient beings.

Yes they are.  They're sapient, too.

[kraidy1117]

jbblue05 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The Geth are not people they are simulated programs just because they ask questions or research about sentient emotions that they can't feel doesn't make them sentient beings with emotions.

The Geth are by their nature machines they .use absolute logic they don't show compassion, fear, resentment, etc.
When the Geth retaliated against the Quarians they wiped out over 99% of their population they didn't have morals it was kill every Quarian you see they killed unarmed civilians, elderly, EVEN CHILDREN. Don't apply Geth logic to sentient beings.
If Geth believe TOTAL VICTORY is obtainable they will attack withour remorse.  
If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

Dig deep enough, and you might just be an organic machine.  Don't be so quick to dismiss the Geth simply because their anscestors were originally built instead of arising out of the muck.
 

I'm not a Cyborg  I am made of flesh the way nature intended.
The Geth are still machines and only exist because of the idiottic Quarians.
I know its easy to compare Geth to sentient beings because they were created by sentient beings.
It still doesn't change the fact that sentients have a wide range of emotions.
while the Geth only understand logc

Shepard is a cyborg. By your logic that means he is not real then.

plus legion does start showing emotion, so your arguemnt is invalid.

 Shepard still retains his humanity and when did I say cyborgs aren't real.   Geth are real they are not people like sentient beings.

Your talking about the N7 armor that can be open to interpertaion. The Geth became interested in Shepard after he defeated Nazara anything they can salvage from Shepard is worth using or studying.
The Geth are AI's they seek out knowledge to understand it.

Side with Tali. Legion shows emotion. As for N7 armour, we don't know why Legion took it, he won't say why.

[Anacronian Stryx]

jbblue05 wrote...

The Geth are not people they are simulated programs just because they ask questions or research about sentient emotions that they can't feel doesn't make them sentient beings with emotions.

Sentience doesn't necessitate having emotions, Sentience is a state of awareness, Truthfully you could argue that we are just sentient biological machines while the Geth are sentient mechanical machines, Having emotions is a byproduct of sentience not the defining quality.

The Geth are by their nature machines they .use absolute logic they don't show compassion, fear, resentment, etc.

They also don't show anger, Racism, Pettiness, Hate or general belligerence.
Emotion have killed and murdered more people than cold logic ever will.

When the Geth retaliated against the Quarians they wiped out over 99% of their population they didn't have morals it was kill every Quarian you see they killed unarmed civilians, elderly, EVEN CHILDREN. Don't apply Geth logic to sentient beings.

You have no way of knowing how the morning war was fought, Maybe it was fought with weapons of mass destruction - Hell for all you know the Quarians could have been the once who used those weapons in their panic, Button line is that nobody knows and there is no reason to make things up.
As you yourself state the Geth is being of pure logic, Logic clearly dictates that you do what is necessary anything beyond that is a waste of resources.

If Geth believe TOTAL VICTORY is obtainable they will attack withour remorse.  
If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

all Sentient machines would be slaves yes.. in fact this why the Quarians went to war in the first place -  even they reached that conclusion.

In DAO werewolves were capable of speech and some level of civility but they were by their nature animals and savages.

Whats the point of this - are you saying that the Geth are like the werewolves and as such is quite okay to attack and kill them without provocation or reason?

The Quarians made a bad choice and they will continue to suffer for it.

Suffering does seem to be their lot in life.

The Geth will never be accepted in organic scociety.

No, But why would they want that? - The Geth is not Data on a ridiculous quest to discover humanity, They just want to exists and develop on their own.

The Quarians and the Geth will never peacefully co-exist their is too much bad blood

Perhaps though the universe is big and has place enough for both of them.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:43 .

[jbblue05]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...
Geth are real they are not people like sentient beings.

Yes they are.  They're sapient, too.

The big difference is organics are born Sentient.   Geth have to be programmed to be sentient.

I never said the Geth are mindless machines.  They are machines who apply and seek out logic

[jbblue05]

kraidy1117 wrote...


Side with Tali. Legion shows emotion. As for N7 armour, we don't know why Legion took it, he won't say why.

Siding with Tali is stiil open to interpetation
Legion wants to warn about the pending attack from the Quarians by siding with Tali you're making yourself an enemy of the Geth.


To get Legion's loyalty back you have to use logic for him to understand why you chose Tali and make it seem that your on his side also

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbblue05 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...
Geth are real they are not people like sentient beings.

Yes they are.  They're sapient, too.

The big difference is organics are born Sentient.   Geth have to be programmed to be sentient.

I never said the Geth are mindless machines.  They are machines who apply and seek out logic

It's a stretch to say that humans are born sapient.

[mopotter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

This mopotter - she understands what I was saying and deserves a cookie! Perhaps a sugar cookie? I like them, but my friends always seem to think they're bland.



But yes, I was basically trying to say that they are stuck in the past and need to move on. Their romanticism over reclaiming their homeworld is dangerous and counterproductive. That might be easy for an "outsider" to say, but they're desperately in need of that kind of wake up call that an outside perspective is capable of delivering.

thanks.  I could use one.  Goes well with my soda.  

[ObserverStatus]

Nightwriter wrote...

Tali's fanbase could take over the continent. How can you say no one likes quarians. I'm sure her fanbase has a national quarian holiday or something.

I'm not so sure that the portion of Bioware social network users who are Tali fans reflects the portion of ME gamers who are Tali fans.

[mopotter]

kregano wrote...

mopotter wrote...
If they had spent as much time working on finding a new planet as they have spent thinking about their past glory, they would have a new world populated with little Quarians and already be on their way to getting rid of the suits.

The Council threatened to bombard a planet that the Quarians had established a settlement on. Fear of that kind of response probably is partially responsible for the limited prosettlement sentiments among the Quarians.

Could be, I must have missed this in my conversations, but with this idea, it would seem that they should be worried the council would bombard their home world if they took it back.  

This doesn't really changes my feeling about their clinging to the glorious past though.  

[Eradyn]

Humans are organic machines. Our programming is written in our cells; it developed as we grew from egg to zygote to embryo and onward. Our software is carried out in biochemical reactions...this stimuli fuels how we operate within the universe.

The geth are synthetic machines. Their programming is written in their hardware; it developed as they grew in number and shared their collective resources. Their software is carried out in bursts of electicity...this stimuli fuels how they operate in the universe.

Before they attained sentience and sapience, they were mere tools and rightly so. One would no more question using them then than one would a hammer or computer. The day they "evolved" and attained the ranks of sapience, held most often by advanced organic life, utterly shifted the paradigm. No longer are they mere machines but sentient, sapient beings. Do they feel or think as we do? No. But just because the manner in which they think and feel is utterly alien does not negate that they are sapient and capable of their own brand of emotion. Just because it is different does not make it less real or genuine...it only means it's different.

To believe otherwise is to embrace the very principles that drove humanity to commit its worst deeds.

Modifié par Eradyn, 15 septembre 2010 - 08:32 .

[jbblue05]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...
Sentience doesn't necessitate having emotions, Sentience is a state of awareness, Truthfully you could argue that we are just sentient biological machines while the Geth are sentient mechanical machines, Having emotions is a byproduct of sentience not the defining quality.

Biological and Mechanical are huge differences.  Organics define sentience.

They also don't show anger, Racism, Pettiness, Hate or general belligerence.
Emotion have killed and murdered more people than cold logic ever will.

So True  exactly what I am trying to say is they use logic not a wide range of emotions.  Geth are still dangerous though

You have no way of knowing how the morning war was fought, Maybe it was fought with weapons of mass destruction - Hell for all you know the Quarians could have been the once who used those weapons in their panic, Button line is that nobody knows and there is no reason to make things up.
As you yourself state the Geth is being of pure logic, Logic clearly dictates that you do what is necessary anything beyond that is a waste of resources.

Their is always a chance of friendly fire.  I doubt its weapons of mass destruction the Quarians would want to return to their homeworld and why would the Geth destroy a resourceful planet.  Many Quarians were probably left behind and slaughterd by the Geth  when the Flotilla realized the war was lost.and left the planet.  Geth used logic Quarians attack them KILL ALL QUARIANS so they can't attack the Geth again.

all Sentient machines would be slaves yes.. in fact this why the Quarians went to war in the first place -  even they reached that conclusion.

And the Quarians got slaughtered what's your point?

Whats the point of this - are you saying that the Geth are like the werewolves and as such is quite okay to attack and kill them without provocation or reason?

What I'm trying to say is no matter how much the Geth may seem  like people  they are who they are machines they can't be trusted by organics just like werewolves aren't trusted in the Dragon Age world

Suffering does seem to be their lot in life

Yes it does

No, But why would they want that? - The Geth is not Data on a ridiculous quest to discover humanity, They just want to exists and develop on their own.

Geth and Organics are bound to cross paths in the future.  The Geth exist because organics allow it and they could end if organics demand it 

Perhaps though the universe is big and has place enough for both of them.

It is a big place I just doubt the Quarians and Geth can peacefully co-exist

[Whatever42]

jbblue05 wrote...

Biological and Mechanical are huge differences.  Organics define sentience.

Only in your dictionary. I can add arbitrary definitions too. Only male white people over the age of 30 are sentient. Oh, and you need to have brown eyes and be Canadian. Otherwise you're clearly not sentient and merely playthings.

[jbblue05]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Biological and Mechanical are huge differences.  Organics define sentience.

Only in your dictionary. I can add arbitrary definitions too. Only male white people over the age of 30 are sentient. Oh, and you need to have brown eyes and be Canadian. Otherwise you're clearly not sentient and merely playthings.

Biological and Mechanical Really are two different things. They really are

I never use an arbitary definition
and I am glad that you know how to write arbitrary sentences.

[upsettingshorts]

Being biological is not a precondition for sentience.

[JPXD]

Eradyn wrote...

Humans are organic machines. Our programming is written in our cells; it developed as we grew from egg to zygote to embryo and onward. Our software is carried out in biochemical reactions...this stimuli fuels how we operate within the universe.

The geth are synthetic machines. Their programming is written in their hardware; it developed as they grew in number and shared their collective resources. Their software is carried out in bursts of electicity...this stimuli fuels how they operate in the universe.

Before they attained sentience and sapience, they were mere tools and rightly so. One would no more question using them then than one would a hammer or computer. The day they "evolved" and attained the ranks of sapience, held most often by advanced organic life, utterly shifted the paradigm. No longer are they mere machines but sentient, sapient beings. Do they feel or think as we do? No. But just because the manner in which they think and feel is utterly alien does not negate that they are sapient and capable of their own brand of emotion. Just because it is different does not make it less real or genuine...it only means it's different.

To believe otherwise is to embrace the very principles that drove humanity to commit its worst deeds.

Agreed, and very well put!

[Anacronian Stryx]

Biological and Mechanical are huge differences.  Organics define sentience.

Completely irrelavant.

So True  exactly what I am trying to say is they use logic not a wide range of emotions.  Geth are still dangerous though

Turians are dangerous so is the Asari and Salarians..whats your point?

Their is always a chance of friendly fire.  I doubt its weapons of mass destruction the Quarians would want to return to their homeworld and why would the Geth destroy a resourceful planet.  Many Quarians were probably left behind and slaughterd by the Geth  when the Flotilla realized the war was lost.and left the planet.  Geth used logic Quarians attack them KILL ALL QUARIANS so they can't attack the Geth again.

Again you're making things up, Nobody knows how the morning war was fought and nobody knows how it ended - hell for all we know there might still be Quarians living on Rannoch - just barred for using communications so they don't bring back those who started the war, everything is possible since nobody knows.

And the Quarians got slaughtered what's your point?

My point was to answer your statement :If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

If you failed to remember that.

What I'm trying to say is no matter how much the Geth may seem  like people  they are who they are machines they can't be trusted by organics just like werewolves aren't trusted in the Dragon Age world

Is there reason to trust the Krogans, Salarians or even the Asari just because they are organics?

Yes it does

well at least we agree on that

Geth and Organics are bound to cross paths in the future.  The Geth exist because organics allow it and they could end if organics demand it

Now you're just getting silly.

It is a big place I just doubt the Quarians and Geth can peacefully co-exist

Well they have been to war so there will probally go some time, Then again humans went to war with the Turians and they do seem to co-exist.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:17 .

[JPXD]

I know it's been said, but it is extremely closed minded to say that organics defines sentience.



Someone said it before, but we are chemical machines controlled by small molecular changes. We are not anything sacred.



Dopamine released into our system causes us to be excited, and be in love. Serotonin regulates mood. Adrenaline combats stress and triggers the fight/flee mechanism. Electrical impulses fire through our systems in the form of reflexes.



A machine works in a similar way but with hardware and software that can produce identical, if not superior responses. It is clear the geth possess higher levels of understanding, fear, and development -- just like any sapient life would.



It's unjust to consider them otherwise.

[Whatever42]

jbblue05 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Biological and Mechanical are huge differences.  Organics define sentience.

Only in your dictionary. I can add arbitrary definitions too. Only male white people over the age of 30 are sentient. Oh, and you need to have brown eyes and be Canadian. Otherwise you're clearly not sentient and merely playthings.

Biological and Mechanical Really are two different things. They really are

I never use an arbitary definition
and I am glad that you know how to write arbitrary sentences.

I was focusing on the "organics define sentience" part of the sentence, thanks.

[jbblue05]

[quote]Anacronian Stryx wrote...
.Completely irrelavant.
[/quote]
Then why did you bring it up

[quote]
Turians are dangerous so is the Asari and Salarians..whats your point?
[/quote]

You were discussing how organics emotions led to violenceand destruction  I was agreeing with you.  But I pointed out that Geth are capable of destruction and violence also because you were defending the Geth

[/quote]

[quote]
Again you're making things up, Nobody knows how the morning war was fought and nobody knows how it ended - hell for all we know there might still be Quarians living on Rannoch - just barred for using communications so they don't bring back those who started the war, everything is possible since nobody knows.
[/quote]

Did you not notice that I used the words "probably" and "chance" which implys that the Morning War is open to interpertation.
Why wouldn't Legion tell you their are Quarians who are living peacefully with the Geth?  I'm guessing the Quarians on Rannoch were killed.


[quote]
My point was to answer your statement :If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

If you failed to remember that.
[/quote]
I don't understand the "point" you were trying to make.  Why wouldn't I remember something I posted?

[quote]
Is there reason to trust the Krogans, Salarians or even the Asari just because they are organics?
[/quote]
Organics don't even trust each other..  Its harder for the Geth because of the Heretics and the Council banning AI technology and Research in Council Space. and lets not forget the incoming Reaper AI threat.

[quote]
Now you're just getting silly.
[/quote]
As I recall the Quarians ran to the Council for help and lost their embassy.   I doubt the Geth would be able to fend off the combine forces of the Council.

[quote]
Well they have been to war so there will probally go some time, Then again humans went to war with the Turians and they do seem to co-exist.[/quote]

Difference is FIrst Contact War only had about a 1,000 casualties

Morning War had over billions of casualties.

The Geth and Quarians can be at peace if Quarians find a new homeworld  but they can't peacefully co-exist  

Modifié par jbblue05, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:42 .

[jbblue05]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Biological and Mechanical are huge differences.  Organics define sentience.

Only in your dictionary. I can add arbitrary definitions too. Only male white people over the age of 30 are sentient. Oh, and you need to have brown eyes and be Canadian. Otherwise you're clearly not sentient and merely playthings.

Biological and Mechanical Really are two different things. They really are

I never use an arbitary definition
and I am glad that you know how to write arbitrary sentences.

I was focusing on the "organics define sentience" part of the sentence, thanks.

Organics do define sentience they came up with the term didn't they

Am I mistaken or did the Geth define sentience

[Whatever42]

jbblue05 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I was focusing on the "organics define sentience" part of the sentence, thanks.

Organics do define sentience they came up with the term didn't they

Am I mistaken or did the Geth define sentience

And I missed it. Whoosh. Went right over my head.

Still. He who would pun would pick a pocket.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:54 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Because their entire flotilla comes to your territory, they strip mine your planets, grab whatever they can, and leave like a plague of locusts. I would be pissed at them too, and would hope the fleet would teach them a lesson or two if they came into Systems Alliance space.

[jbblue05]

ReconTeam wrote...

Because their entire flotilla comes to your territory, they strip mine your planets, grab whatever they can, and leave like a plague of locusts. I would be pissed at them too, and would hope the fleet would teach them a lesson or two if they came into Systems Alliance space.

This

They should go get blown up by the Geth. 
300 years is a long enough time to find a planet in the terminus sytems to colonize
If Humanity can colonize so many planets in 26 years then the Quarians have no exxcuse

[Anacronian Stryx]

jbblue05 please do try to follow the conversation.

I did not bring up it was a response to your post - my response was that your response is Completely irrelevant.

You stated that the Geth are still dangerous and my reply was that so are the Turians and every other organic race that doesn't set the Geth apart from the rest.

Yes i noted that you used words like "probably" and "chance" and my response was that you don't know - in fact you're basing your whole assumption on the Geth as being baby killers on something you have no way of knowing and then i used an unlikely example of "Quarians still living on their home world" to show how little we know about what actually happened.

In your original post you wrote If you believe the Geth should be free then we should apply the same logic to all machinery because machines are just slaves to sentient beings.

My answer was : Yes all sentient machines should be set free - In fact even the Quarians believes this and that is why they panicked and started the morning war.

You stated : What I'm trying to say is no matter how much the Geth may seem like people they are who they are machines they can't be trusted by organics just like werewolves aren't trusted in the Dragon Age world

I then replied with a question : Is there reason to trust the Krogans, Salarians or even the Asari just because they are organics?

I hope this recap has helped you to follow the topic.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 15 septembre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

I think Legion says at one point that the Geth are trying to clean the damage to the planet from the Morning War, which implies to me that someone used some very heavy-duty weapons at some point.